AnimeSuki Forums

felix · 2009-05-31, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yeah, because lynch mobs are so impartial and fair.

They are obviously called differently because they are not the same thing, didn't I already say it, everyone keeps pushing the "vengence" label on everything just because its vialonce.

Two more things, I wasn't talking about Koinzell in particular and second, this is all something you would need to come to understand yourself; if you disagree (though I'm only hearing common brainwashing rather then your motives) that's fine, everything has its little positive side.

Anh_Minh · 2009-05-31, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cats

They are obviously called differently because they are not the same thing,

What are you talking about?

I referred to lynch mobs because they're the ultimate expression of "the common people" taking justice into their own hands.

Quote:

didn't I already say it, everyone keeps pushing the "vengence" label on everything just because its vialonce.

What everything? And hey, if you come after someone because he's hurt you and you want to hurt him back, it's vengeance. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but that's pretty much what the word means.

Quote:

Two more things, I wasn't talking about Koinzell in particular and second, this is all something you would need to come to understand yourself;

What "all"?

Quote:

if you disagree (though I'm only hearing common brainwashing rather then your motives)

First, accusing someone of being brainwashed just because he happens to disagree with you is not a good way to be taken seriously. Second, I'm not sure I'm disagreeing with you, because I'm not sure what it is you're trying to say.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the notion of public interest is absent of your vision of the world, which makes it easier to confuse justice and vengeance. You also completely neglect the problem of subjectivity when you say a vengeance has to be "just". Different societies have different laws, and within one society people have different opinions over said laws, because everyone's got different ideas of what's "just".

I'd like to point out that even in cultures that allow and encourage revenge, there are guidelines over when one should go for it, and how to reconcile two parties. One can't just decide on one's own to kill someone else over some real or imagined offense.

Quote:

that's fine, everything has its little positive side.

What positive side? What are you talking about? Our disagreeing? Your side of the argument? Mine?

Sol Falling · 2009-06-01, 07:58

Cats is saying that 'vengeance is wrong' is simply part of more general 'violence is bad, world peace yay' dogma.

The thing is, the point behind 'vengeance doesn't achieve anything' isn't really about the 'victim' i.e. receiver of vengeance but the avenger him/her/it-self. The idea is, if you're a generally decent person who doesn't actually enjoy inflicting pain for its own sake, then after you achieve your vengeance, you'll feel kinda empty and not know what to do anymore. Vengeance doesn't achieve anything aside from transient emotional satisfaction, so if there are great personal costs to it (i.e. vengeance forces somebody to make sacrifices they normally wouldn't) then in the end it may not feel worth it.

With regards to vengeance in Ubel Blatt, I don't think anybody's condemning Koinzell's vengeance as amoral. Destroy a country or whatever, it's clear enough that this is too much of a grey issue. However, there is nothing wrong with emphasizing that Koinzell himself recognizes the damage his vengeance will cause, and realizing that this disregard for inflicting pain on innocents makes Koinzell think less of himself as a person.

Tyrone Biggums · 2009-06-01, 09:22

Koinzell has stated several times that he knows what he is doing is going to screw with the country. He says that he'll receive his punishment when all the Heroes are dead...but until then don't get in his way.

It'll be interesting to see what happens if/when all the Heroes are dead and the Calamity approaches...will Koinzell even feel like he has a reason to live anymore? Or will he leave the upcoming battles to the new generation (Ifkes?)...

felix · 2009-06-04, 17:06

Ch. 70 is out thx to Suvi, Iorin and Ichiya.

MrTerrorist · 2009-06-11, 08:38

Chp 71 is out.

Spoiler for 71:

Tyrone Biggums · 2009-06-11, 08:47

Not like he can pull 4-6 swords out of his ass to stop the man, the legend, Koinzell.

paradox13 · 2009-06-11, 09:45

koinzell is such a badass.

I wonder if the manga will end when koinzell kills all the heroes. somehow I see a plot twist heading our way..seeing as how hes going to the meeting of the 10 kings of the round table, along with the noblewoman.

I hope he gets rehabilitated before he dies.

Also love all the politics between the heroes. We're only just starting to get a glimpse of the friction between the heroes, firstly with barestar and now with lebelont.

Tyrone Biggums · 2009-06-11, 10:23

After the 7 heroes...there is still the Calamity that was mentioned in the first Volume. Everyone thought Konz was going to be the hero that stopped it...but maybe he is the Calamity? Or maybe its Ifkes...or maybe its one of the Heroes...or maybe...just maybe...

Its something we have never seen before...

Godzilla?

paradox13 · 2009-06-13, 07:21

ubel blatt gets so little love : (

Tyrone Biggums · 2009-06-15, 08:01

Haha I've read scans for up to the end of this current volume...so not much is new for me and last time I posted a message about future chapters I got an infraction...

felix · 2009-06-19, 14:33

New chapter up.

Xellos-_^ · 2009-06-22, 00:50

for all the raw readers, MH has upto c91 raw.

KrebMarkt · 2009-06-22, 03:38

Sells well in France

Vol 9 will have standard & collector editions:
http://www.ki-oon.com/ki-oon.php?wha...page=vol&vol=9
http://www.ki-oon.com/ki-oon.php?wha...=9%20Collector

KoroshiyaX · 2009-06-22, 21:51

Read up to ch91

Spoiler:

shmaster · 2009-06-23, 02:29

Not so fast, we can't be sure how the Emperor is going to react to all this though, especially if the old man is going to find out the truth, consider who Koinzell just killed.

Majek · 2009-06-23, 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoroshiyaX

Read up to ch91

Spoiler:

Spoiler for 91:

Tyrone Biggums · 2009-06-23, 07:52

What chapter does Volume 9 end at?

Miles Teg · 2009-06-23, 08:02

It's the chapter call "Grabstein" probably chapter 83. The volume don't have the chapter number but chapter 84 start where the last chapter of volume 9 end

Tyrone Biggums · 2009-06-23, 09:00

Nice...So are these chapters all of Volume 10?

2009-06-01, 09:22	Link #224
Tyrone Biggums Crack Head Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: T dot Ohhhhhh Age: 37	Koinzell has stated several times that he knows what he is doing is going to screw with the country. He says that he'll receive his punishment when all the Heroes are dead...but until then don't get in his way. It'll be interesting to see what happens if/when all the Heroes are dead and the Calamity approaches...will Koinzell even feel like he has a reason to live anymore? Or will he leave the upcoming battles to the new generation (Ifkes?)... __________________ "Hey Joe Rogan, there is something you don't know about me...i smoke rocks!!!"

2009-06-04, 17:06	Link #225
felix sleepyhead Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: event horizon	Ch. 70 is out thx to Suvi, Iorin and Ichiya. __________________

2009-06-11, 08:38	Link #226
MrTerrorist Takao Tsundere Cruiser Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Classified	Chp 71 is out. Spoiler for 71: Look like Ikfes is becoming a better thanks to Ascheriit's Fairy Stone Sword. __________________

2009-06-11, 08:47	Link #227
Tyrone Biggums Crack Head Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: T dot Ohhhhhh Age: 37	Not like he can pull 4-6 swords out of his ass to stop the man, the legend, Koinzell. __________________ "Hey Joe Rogan, there is something you don't know about me...i smoke rocks!!!"

2009-06-11, 09:45	Link #228
paradox13 zzz Join Date: May 2009 Age: 32	koinzell is such a badass. I wonder if the manga will end when koinzell kills all the heroes. somehow I see a plot twist heading our way..seeing as how hes going to the meeting of the 10 kings of the round table, along with the noblewoman. I hope he gets rehabilitated before he dies. Also love all the politics between the heroes. We're only just starting to get a glimpse of the friction between the heroes, firstly with barestar and now with lebelont. __________________ Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.

2009-06-01, 07:58	Link #223
Sol Falling Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 35	Cats is saying that 'vengeance is wrong' is simply part of more general 'violence is bad, world peace yay' dogma. The thing is, the point behind 'vengeance doesn't achieve anything' isn't really about the 'victim' i.e. receiver of vengeance but the avenger him/her/it-self. The idea is, if you're a generally decent person who doesn't actually enjoy inflicting pain for its own sake, then after you achieve your vengeance, you'll feel kinda empty and not know what to do anymore. Vengeance doesn't achieve anything aside from transient emotional satisfaction, so if there are great personal costs to it (i.e. vengeance forces somebody to make sacrifices they normally wouldn't) then in the end it may not feel worth it. With regards to vengeance in Ubel Blatt, I don't think anybody's condemning Koinzell's vengeance as amoral. Destroy a country or whatever, it's clear enough that this is too much of a grey issue. However, there is nothing wrong with emphasizing that Koinzell himself recognizes the damage his vengeance will cause, and realizing that this disregard for inflicting pain on innocents makes Koinzell think less of himself as a person.

2009-06-11, 10:23	Link #229
Tyrone Biggums Crack Head Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: T dot Ohhhhhh Age: 37	After the 7 heroes...there is still the Calamity that was mentioned in the first Volume. Everyone thought Konz was going to be the hero that stopped it...but maybe he is the Calamity? Or maybe its Ifkes...or maybe its one of the Heroes...or maybe...just maybe... Its something we have never seen before... Godzilla? __________________ "Hey Joe Rogan, there is something you don't know about me...i smoke rocks!!!"

2009-06-13, 07:21	Link #230
paradox13 zzz Join Date: May 2009 Age: 32	ubel blatt gets so little love : ( __________________ Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.

2009-06-15, 08:01	Link #231
Tyrone Biggums Crack Head Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: T dot Ohhhhhh Age: 37	Haha I've read scans for up to the end of this current volume...so not much is new for me and last time I posted a message about future chapters I got an infraction... __________________ "Hey Joe Rogan, there is something you don't know about me...i smoke rocks!!!"

2009-06-19, 14:33	Link #232
felix sleepyhead Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: event horizon	New chapter up. __________________

2009-06-22, 00:50	Link #233
Xellos-_^ Not Enough Sleep Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: R'lyeh Age: 48	for all the raw readers, MH has upto c91 raw. __________________

2009-06-22, 03:38	Link #234
KrebMarkt Never do well Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: CENSORED	Sells well in France Vol 9 will have standard & collector editions: http://www.ki-oon.com/ki-oon.php?wha...page=vol&vol=9 http://www.ki-oon.com/ki-oon.php?wha...=9%20Collector

2009-06-22, 21:51	Link #235
KoroshiyaX X Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Toronto	Read up to ch91 Spoiler: Ikfes vs Koinzell in a 1:1 gladiator style fight, in front of all named characters and hundreds of spectators, if not thousands. - Enough said lol Plot wise, It's possible things will wrap up soon, as many people now know Koinzell's identity, and the remaining 7 heroes are alienating more and more people (who are switching to koinzell's side, whether or not they admit to it)

2009-06-23, 02:29	Link #236
shmaster オンドリャァァァ!!! Join Date: May 2009	Not so fast, we can't be sure how the Emperor is going to react to all this though, especially if the old man is going to find out the truth, consider who Koinzell just killed.

2009-06-23, 07:52	Link #238
Tyrone Biggums Crack Head Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: T dot Ohhhhhh Age: 37	What chapter does Volume 9 end at? __________________ "Hey Joe Rogan, there is something you don't know about me...i smoke rocks!!!"

2009-06-23, 08:02	Link #239
Miles Teg Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Le Mans, France	It's the chapter call "Grabstein" probably chapter 83. The volume don't have the chapter number but chapter 84 start where the last chapter of volume 9 end

2009-06-23, 09:00	Link #240
Tyrone Biggums Crack Head Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: T dot Ohhhhhh Age: 37	Nice...So are these chapters all of Volume 10? __________________ "Hey Joe Rogan, there is something you don't know about me...i smoke rocks!!!"