Attack on Titan - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[saravis]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Rico's speech annoyed me, though. She's not the only one with friends. All of Eren's are going to risk their life betting it on him already, so what more does she want?

I don't think she was singling out her own friends, she was just making it clear to Eren what the stakes are. She named names so that he'd see soldiers as individual humans as opposed to a collective instrument of destruction. Even if he has to crawl and drag the boulder with his teeth, he needs to succeed, otherwise there will be a lot of deaths in vain. While he may have understood that, there's nothing wrong with driving the point even further. Some speeches are meant to inspire success, others are meant to repulse you from failure, hers was the latter.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Flolan

Actually Rico's annoying speech was not in the manga. So you cant blame the author on this one.

I never specified which author...

...

...okay I was talking about the mangaka, but it doesn't really make a difference either way.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by saravis

I don't think she was singling out her own friends, she was just making it clear to Eren what the stakes are. She named names so that he'd see soldiers as individual humans as opposed to a collective instrument of destruction. Even if he has to crawl and drag the boulder with his teeth, he needs to succeed, otherwise there will be a lot of deaths in vain. While he may have understood that, there's nothing wrong with driving the point even further. Some speeches are meant to inspire success, others are meant to repulse you from failure, hers was the latter.

Not too long ago she was looking to gun him down just because he was different.

She's in no position to say stuff like that to Eren.

The thing I hate about characters like her is that people like her exist in real life. No matter what logic you throw at them they seem to "worship" the idea that something bad will happen and just.

For example, no matter how many plans you provide to her she'll come up with an excuse for each one so therefore Pixis' argument was pretty straightforward, "do you have a better idea?"

Pixis is right, it's either do or die, they have to win no matter the costs.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by saravis

I don't think she was singling out her own friends, she was just making it clear to Eren what the stakes are. She named names so that he'd see soldiers as individual humans as opposed to a collective instrument of destruction.

Well, fuck her because:
- he has his own soldier friends. The closest he has in his family, barring the father who abandoned them, are going to be either in the decoy team or right there with the elite between him and the mass of enemy titans.
- Pixis said what the stakes were, and they aren't her or her friends. It's humanity. 50% in the short term, but really 100% not long after. Every soldier in Trost is to be considered expendable.

Even if he has to crawl and drag the boulder with his teeth, he needs to succeed, otherwise there will be a lot of deaths in vain. While he may have understood that, there's nothing wrong with driving the point even further. Some speeches are meant to inspire success, others are meant to repulse you from failure, hers was the latter.

Nah, she just wanted to vent. As showed by her "even if you have to die" line. If she knew him at all, she'd know no one can fault his willingness to die. But she doesn't, fine. She should at least see that, despite the fact that he was nearly killed by his own side a few minutes before, he's still gung ho to fight for humanity. More importantly, if he dies, there is no plan. So he should bloody well do all he can to survive till that hole is plugged.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Flolan

Actually Rico's annoying speech was not in the manga. So you cant blame the author on this one.

Ok... never mind about the "subconcious effect" then...

[saravis]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Not too long ago she was looking to gun him down just because he was different.

She's in no position to say stuff like that to Eren.

I can see that argument, it does make her rather hypocritical, but then again, she wasn't looking to kill him as a fellow soldier she was looking to kill him because he could have been a titan.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Well, fuck her because:
- he has his own soldier friends. The closest he has in his family, barring the father who abandoned them, are going to be either in the decoy team or right there with the elite between him and the mass of enemy titans.
- Pixis said what the stakes were, and they aren't her or her friends. It's humanity. 50% in the short term, but really 100% not long after. Every soldier in Trost is to be considered expendable.

I thought I had just got done saying that she wasn't singling out her own friends, she was just naming names, good grief. Soldiers are only expendable, if their expenditure means something. In the immortal words of Patton, "You don't win wars by dying for your country, you win them by making the other dumb bastard die for his."
As for Pixis, his speech was more of the inspirational variety and more directed at the low morale soldiers. While Eren could certainly take inspiration from it, it wasn't specifically directed at him. Rico's, on the other hand, was.

As for her venting, didn't see it.

[queenphoenix]

I thought the beginning was a bit... awkward, anyone felt that too?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by saravis

I thought I had just got done saying that she wasn't singling out her own friends, she was just naming names, good grief.

Singling them out, then. Like Eren can't name plenty of other soldiers he doesn't want to see die either.

Soldiers are only expendable, if their expenditure means something. In the immortal words of Patton, "You don't win wars by dying for your country, you win them by making the other dumb bastard die for his."
As for Pixis, his speech was more of the inspirational variety and more directed at the low morale soldiers. While Eren could certainly take inspiration from it, it wasn't specifically directed at him. Rico's, on the other hand, was.

It doesn't change the fact that she's just plain wrong if she thinks the stakes are just her fellow soldiers. Or that Eren absolutely didn't need to hear her.

As for her venting, didn't see it.

She has her doubts on the op, she can't take it out on her superiors, so she picks on the cadet.

[Harangue]

There was far too much exposition in this episode, which usually isn't a problem, except that virtually everything they said/did in the episode had been repeated countless times before. "Humanity is getting its ass kicked." "We suck so much." "I don't wanna die." "Hey, you guys totes need to stop the Titans." All of it felt like one massive filler, just get to the point already.

Can't say I wasn't expecting something like Eren turning on Mikasa and the others, either. Since he's unconscious while he's inside his Titan form we know he only runs on instinct and rage.

Originally Posted by Jerseykid

They should have started the decoy operation and then the elite team takes Eren to the basement first before messing with the boulder.

The basement is inside of Wall Maria, that is literally miles away, and what purpose would it even serve them right now? What they have to do is seal up the hole in Wall Rose to ensure no new Titans can enter, so that they are able to retake Wall Rose's territory rather than having all of the survivors seek refuge inside of the final wall, leading to mass starvation and riots. Wall Maria is a lost cause and is not the highest point on the to-do list at the moment.

Priorities, man, you need to have them.

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

I'll lean towards Riko's speech just annoying the heck out of me. I'll just note that apparently it's all because of Eren these people signed up to be soldiers, Titans exist, and they need to regain the town or else have to sacrifice a ton of their population again. It was just a stupid amount of pressure and practically blaming Eren. "It's your fault people are going to die."

Just annoyed by the blame game. Yeah, they are doing this plan because they have Titan Eren to use. But they are doing it because Pixis decided to, because Armin came up with the plan, because they have elite enough soldiers to pull off the escort mission, and because everyone didn't revolt or leave.

As with Eren and Mikasa it certainly is possible to see both viewpoints and how both don't consider the other person's thoughts enough. Mikasa doesn't get how her protectiveness is frustrating for Eren and Eren doesn't get that he's the only family she has. His whole view is about killing Titans, but her whole world is him. Wouldn't be surprised if the end of the episode was the result of the two not getting each other at all.

No, they're doing it because they literally have no other options besides fleeing to the interior wall, spreading mass chaos and the death of something near 50% of the remaining human population. That's why I don't understand dumbass characters like her.

You have no other viable plans, no other possible victory outcome, and yet they still try and shit all over the only plan and the people participating in it. If people like her and that coward of a commander were in charge nothing would ever get done about anything, and humanity would end up becoming the reason for their own downfall.

As for Eren and Mikasa, I think I find Mikasa's over protectiveness suffocating, which is most likely how Eren feels. I understand he's the only family she has left, and it would be nice if he would stop for a moment and just humor her by letting her come along, but at the same time, she's not just being overly protective, she seems to think that he is totally incapable of doing anything on his own without her tagging along, like he's an invalid or something. If she wants to protect someone who can't do a damn thing on his own, she should follow around Armin.

Right before he told her again that he isn't her son or little brother, she was about to say that if he tries to do it without her he'll get hurt/die. She literally just witnessed him killing five to six Titans on his own in Titan form without even having any arms. The fact that she still has no faith in him, or even his new found power, is grating at best, completely ignorant and stupid at worst. By all means, protect your unconfessed lover, but by God, don't treat him as though he's incapable of doing anything at all.

[Beaver897]

Woah, people are actually protecting/defending Eren now! (Well, technically, attacking his attacker, but you get the point!) Don't worry, it looks like Eren is more than aware of it now, by the looks of it. He should've been shaken up if he wasn't aware of what Rico said. And honestly, though, I do think someone had to end up saying that to him as a representative of humanity. I think everyone's already thinking what she said, and even Eren probably does, but I don't think it's redundant to still spell it out, I guess.

[saravis]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Singling them out, then. Like Eren can't name plenty of other soldiers he doesn't want to see die either.

So...were you expecting her to name every single soldier in the entire army because I don't think they had THAT far to run, lol.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It doesn't change the fact that she's just plain wrong if she thinks the stakes are just her fellow soldiers. Or that Eren absolutely didn't need to hear her.

For the matter at hand? Yes, that is exactly what was at stake. She was speaking on the matter of the battle at hand, not the entirety of the war, people are sacrificing their lives to ensure its victory, its victory hinged on whether Eren could successfully move the boulder to the hole. If he failed, lives would be meaninglessly lost in that battle.

Certainly she could have gone on about how all of humanity would be devoured if he failed, that this battle could decide whether humanity had a future or not, but why? If you want to talk unnecessary, that's unnecessary. Pixis point: we can grab a new hold on victory. Riko's point: don't fuck it up.

You keep mentioning that there is more at stake than just soldiers, but that is exactly what is at stake in a war. Whatever you lose after you've failed the war is because you failed to utilize your soldiers effectively, it all comes down to that. Perhaps you should reread that Patton quote I posted.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

She has her doubts on the op, she can't take it out on her superiors, so she picks on the cadet.

You're looking too deeply into it, she was rather matter-of-factually in her speech, perhaps too much so. Personally, I think that she understood that Eren already understood what she was saying, but she felt it was important to drive it home. Then again, maybe I'm the one over analyzing it. She said her words, he acknowledged them, they moved on. Why so hate filled?

[GreyZone]

Someone here said that that "Rico speech" was not in the Manga... if that is true then all of this ranting is pointless since it is just filler.

EDIT: the quote:

Originally Posted by Flolan

Actually Rico's annoying speech was not in the manga. So you cant blame the author on this one.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Someone here said that that "Rico speech" was not in the Manga... if that is true then all of this ranting is pointless since it is just filler.

EDIT: the quote:

I don't think it's pointless at all. It's in the anime and that's what we're talking about right now.

[CJ_Walker]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Well, fuck her because:
- he has his own soldier friends. The closest he has in his family, barring the father who abandoned them, are going to be either in the decoy team or right there with the elite between him and the mass of enemy titans.
- Pixis said what the stakes were, and they aren't her or her friends. It's humanity. 50% in the short term, but really 100% not long after. Every soldier in Trost is to be considered expendable.



Nah, she just wanted to vent. As showed by her "even if you have to die" line. If she knew him at all, she'd know no one can fault his willingness to die. But she doesn't, fine. She should at least see that, despite the fact that he was nearly killed by his own side a few minutes before, he's still gung ho to fight for humanity. More importantly, if he dies, there is no plan. So he should bloody well do all he can to survive till that hole is plugged.

Pretty much this, it was annoying and out of place. Sometimes If directors are planning to follow the source material, putting in stupid shit like this should be a definite no. The Director who OK'd it seems to have some beef with Eren (if you take into account some other changes that revolve around him like when he bitched out Armind a while back)

[Endless Soul]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Personally, I rather like rousing speeches. I wouldn't take anime made of 100% speeches, but I wouldn't take 100% fight scenes either.

Rico's speech annoyed me, though. She's not the only one with friends. All of Eren's are going to risk their life betting it on him already, so what more does she want?

I found her speech a bit annoying, but for a different reason. It's a nitpick I know, but she gave that long winded speech while running, completely upright (not tilted forward like most people do when they're running), and sounding like someone who was sitting in their library at home. She didn't sound at all like someone who was talking while running.

Endless "Nitpick" Soul

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Endless Soul

She didn't sound at all like someone who was talking while running.

Bravo, Endless. Bravo!

[hyper_oats]

There were many anime only scenes in this part that I really didn't like, including Rico's speech. The director needs to stop including filler like this because it puts his spin on the characters and plot that aren't always consistent with the mangaka's (and as far as I can tell, it's supposed to be a 1:1 adaptation, not an original).

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by saravis

So...were you expecting her to name every single soldier in the entire army because I don't think they had THAT far to run, lol.

No, I expected her to shut the fuck up about her friends. Everybody has them, and it's much bigger than them.

For the matter at hand? Yes, that is exactly what was at stake. She was speaking on the matter of the battle at hand, not the entirety of the war, people are sacrificing their lives to ensure its victory, its victory hinged on whether Eren could successfully move the boulder to the hole. If he failed, lives would be meaninglessly lost in that battle.

No, the stakes of that particular battle is the whole of humanity. If they fail, humanity will try to retreat behind Wall Sina, and that'll just about kill them. All of them, because there's no way to keep the peace with so many people and so little food.

Certainly she could have gone on about how all of humanity would be devoured if he failed, that this battle could decide whether humanity had a future or not, but why? If you want to talk unnecessary, that's unnecessary.

She could have kept her mouth shut. That's an option, too, you know.

Pixis point: we can grab a new hold on victory.

That's one of his point. Another is that if they fail, humanity will do the Titans' job for them. Game over.

Riko's point: don't fuck it up.

Rico's point: everything is your fault so do it for me because I'm so special.

You keep mentioning that there is more at stake than just soldiers, but that is exactly what is at stake in a war. Whatever you lose after you've failed the war is because you failed to utilize your soldiers effectively, it all comes down to that. Perhaps you should reread that Patton quote I posted.

There's more to winning a war than "utilizing your soldiers", but it's not relevant here because they're not Eren's soldiers. He's a cadet, not a commander. He has a job to do, and he knew it before she opened her mouth.

You're looking too deeply into it, she was rather matter-of-factually in her speech, perhaps too much so.

She'd expressed her doubts before, so we know what she was thinking about the whole thing. It was a speech she didn't need to make about her personal stake in the situation, to someone who couldn't do anything about it except what he was already doing anyway. So, yeah, venting.

Personally, I think that she understood that Eren already understood what she was saying, but she felt it was important to drive it home. Then again, maybe I'm the one over analyzing it. She said her words, he acknowledged them, they moved on. Why so hate filled?

Hate-filled? I'm just annoyed at her, but you're defending her. Why wouldn't I argue for my point of view?

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Harangue

That's why I don't understand dumbass characters like her.

You can't. Like I said people that act like that in real life literally worship going around in circles to the point and love debating.

For the matter at hand? Yes, that is exactly what was at stake. She was speaking on the matter of the battle at hand, not the entirety of the war, people are sacrificing their lives to ensure its victory, its victory hinged on whether Eren could successfully move the boulder to the hole. If he failed, lives would be meaninglessly lost in that battle.

Certainly she could have gone on about how all of humanity would be devoured if he failed, that this battle could decide whether humanity had a future or not, but why? If you want to talk unnecessary, that's unnecessary. Pixis point: we can grab a new hold on victory. Riko's point: don't fuck it up.

You keep mentioning that there is more at stake than just soldiers, but that is exactly what is at stake in a war. Whatever you lose after you've failed the war is because you failed to utilize your soldiers effectively, it all comes down to that. Perhaps you should reread that Patton quote I posted.

You're looking too deeply into it, she was rather matter-of-factually in her speech, perhaps too much so. Personally, I think that she understood that Eren already understood what she was saying, but she felt it was important to drive it home. Then again, maybe I'm the one over analyzing it. She said her words, he acknowledged them, they moved on. Why so hate filled?

I think you're looking a little too deep into it.

Eren was there, Pixis drove in the point that it's a do or die mission and that they can't retreat. Against the Titans, they have no choice but to give it their all in retaking Trost and die if need be.

If I was Eren I would've told her to shut up. Eren lost his entire squad (save Armin) to Titans and he was on the frontline and given the fact that she's an elite she should've been well aware of that. There's no need to drive anything home, so many of his comrades have already been killed. She's literally lecturing him like this is his first battle or something.

Eren knows that this whole thing boggles down on whether or not he can plug the hole and Pixis already made it clear that he has to succeed. He doesn't need the idiot who tried killing him not too long ago to repeat it.

[larethian]

Aside from the web-slinging, best part was when Pixis got the deserters to join back.