Higurashi Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[Kevs]

Well Mion did say that she showed her distinction so that she would forgive Satoshi and Shion

[Prinkster]

Shion made a big deal out of the fact that she wasn't Mion just before the distinction. After Ooishi had checked the family records, hiding Shion's existence even by killing her would not do much good.

I'm guessing the distinction is simply a punishment Shion endures for her actions.

Still, great episode. I really liked the characterization of Mion that came out -

Spoiler:

I mean, we already saw Shion get her nails yanked out, so we have a pretty good idea of how painful it is...Mion did that for her sister?

Someone posted a theory about Mion beggining with the Great Houses to spare Shion and Satoshi, and the lack of her fingernails seems to make this a lot more plausible. The only thing - Mion honestly didn't seem to know what happened to Satoshi. What's up with that?

[Wanderer]

All I can say is that I am absolutely shocked at how wrong this makes me. I literally am not sure that I believe this outcome so far.

So everyone, what do you think? Different viewpoint of the exact same set of events, or different viewpoint and a (maybe only slightly) different set of events?

[Prinkster]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

All I can say is that I am absolutely shocked at how wrong this makes me. I literally am not sure that I believe this outcome so far.

So everyone, what do you think? Different viewpoint of the exact same set of events, or different viewpoint and a (maybe only slightly) different set of events?

That's tough, because we've already exposed to the possibility that Keiichi is not a reliable narrator (he's crazy?). I'm going with different viewpoint of the exact same set of events.

Spoiler:

So far, the only things that don't quite square up are the endings. Maybe they'll somehow coincide. (After all, the scene with Sh/Mion killing him in the hospital could very easily have happened after the evil swamp gas of doom consumes the rest of the town - that just leaves us to explain how Keiichi dies in the phone booth and the hospital. o_o)

[LostBlue]

two things:
Shion is allowed to exists after the Distinction. That's why she can now attend family gatherings as well. Although she is under the custody of her parents she does live half the time in that apartment.

Meakashi and Watanagashi hen however similar aren't the same story. Although most of the events are similar. I'm hoping Studio Deen purposely skipped the one of the scariest part of Watanagashi Hen to be put in this arc. Specifically, the next EP ^^ カチャ　つー　つー

[Darkside]

Creepy episode, I liked how they are developing Shion's character. I especially liked this episode, because Kira is finally back after quite some time >.<

[solwyvern]

Well, great episode! Especially the ending part and the Rena part.

Spoiler:

Everything from Watanagishi-hen is clearing up little by little.
Especially the things about Oyashiro-sama, and the way he watches over you and shadows you. (man, that was creepy).

There is only one thing I'm not liking. -It's how fast the story moves. It seems to gap weeks, sometimes the whole year, jumping from one part of the timeline to the next. (And I wanted some to see more filler/happy side episodes, just like the very first episode of Higurashi =( )
The whole arcs lately seem to be very story-focused.

Another dissapointing thing is body proportion.

Spoiler:

wth? Shion almost looks lika chicken. =x

seriously, quality on Deen's part, worries me... m(_ _ !!!)m
(╥_─)

Glad to see Keichi back in scene, too. Problem is, he didn't do much. T_T

Lastly, personal thanks to Lost-Blue, and the rest of the [WinD] crew for the sub.

[rogueblade]

wow, that was a great episode! Finally got a pretty solid answer for the shrine incident, which was driving me nuts till now.
And yay for Keiichi!

Side note: Thanks to the entire WinD crew for the subbing!

[Vicke]

Yeah great episode. But I still dont see why Shion/Mion from Watanagashi-hen blames Kei-chan for triggering the awakening of the demon in Shion/Mion because he didnt give Mion the doll. And what is up with Kei-chan's imitating of Satoshi-kun, it has happened so many times now that it cant be a coincident.

[Shiroth]

Is about time.. that we got the return of Keiichi. ^__^

So everything is starting to make sense now, well, at least the part about the curse and everything that surrounds it - the whole 'Where's Satoshi' is something still i'm not 100% sure about, and i have a feeling i'll be like that even after the anime has finished.

Pretty upsetting really. I just want Shion & Satoshi to at least be able to spend five minutes together.. ;_;

[aliensporebomb]

What we seem to be seeing, is a repeating cycle of events with a
number of possible permutations playing themselves out over and
over again.

Theory:

Spoiler:

This episode especially was showing it:
-the resemblence between K1 and Satoshi cannot be a coincidence,
it is intentional and I suspect the reason for Satoshi's "vanishing"
is also another question where the answer might be more complex
than it initially seems.

-repeating cycle:
-Sonizaki sister in danger (Shion)
-Thugs threaten
-K1 intervenes with children calling townsfolk in case more are needed,
in the previous cycle Shion herself (or was it Mion?) called the townspeople.
-Danger averted, head patted, all is well.

I realize this series is based on a game with multiple outcomes but I've a thought:

We see the same sequences with different outcomes again and again.

What if this, for the sake of it being a television series has this in mind:

Could this be a dream that one of the characters (maybe one
of the sisters, K1 or Satoshi) is having and it keeps repeating around
and around until a happy outcome is found? But until that time it's
doom and gloom city?

And then there's this to think about:

Spoiler:

In this episode there was a segment where Shion said "Satoshi-kun,
so that's where you've been". I'm not sure if she actually saw him,
she either could be gradually going a bit insane or she's gained
the ability (thru the demon blood coursing thru her veins) to
perceive things normal humans can't.

Which makes no sense at all because others in the village who had
no demon blood connection also perceived footsteps among other
things.

And more on demon blood:
And I'm also thinking that the whole demon blood thing might be an
hoax, initially for the ruling class in that town (and some who may
have had a taste for cannabalism) to maintain ruling power over
the town - you wouldn't dare go up against someone with
supernatural powers right? The church has done this successfully
for centuries. Why not a township in early Japan? Stranger things
have happened.

No offense to churchgoers meant.

My thoughts on Satoshi and his dissappearance:

Spoiler:

With the doll he wanted to buy unavailable, he may have blown
town as fast as he possibly could.

He likely felt he let his sister down by not getting her what she
needed to make life bearable and with his guardians being
abusive and with him hearing the footsteps that others have
heard he probably thought he was next on the list of people
to get killed so he got out of town as quickly and quietly as he
could using the money he saved for the stuffed toy as a way
of procuring passage. He could be anywhere in Japan
working quietly until he can find a way to someday return.

Unless:

Spoiler:

The grand old matron of the Sonozaki family had him dropped into
the swamp without her granddaughters knowledge to get rid of
what she perceived as a problem that wasn't going to go away.

That way Shion's crush for an enemy of the family is addressed,
there's one less of those pesky enemies around and order is
maintained, cover maintained and secrets kept.

Also - some thoughts on Mion:

Spoiler:

Here we see she's really the soft touch and her tomboy-ishness
is really a big act. She's a total cutiepie when in the non-tomboy
mode too. We're on to you Mion! Your sister is the hardcase.

She felt so bad about disguring her sisters hands that she did the
same thing to herself as a way of showing distinction - she respected
the fact that the old guard in her family believed Satoshi's family was
the "enemy" but she also wanted to make clear that she believed her
sister had the right to love who she wanted.

The grand matron said she would think about sparing Satoshi but
events transpired that may or may not implicate the old guard in that
family doing the deed and not letting Mion know. She seemed truly
bothered that not only did her Shion's hand get tortured but she lost
someone she cared for. Probably forever.

Shion in her rage couldn't believe it and was stopped dead in her
tracks when she saw her sisters hand.

This unexpected kindness was given a weird turn when Shion was
flirting relentlessly with K1 partially because she wanted to see
what her sister would do (teasing her) and partially because she
saw the Satoshi in K1 and likes him and partially because she's
feeling guilty over Satoshi's loss and can't stay away from forbidden
fruit. The scene where Mion was effusing over K1 was funny until
she went into "but he gave Rena that doll" and "wanting to start
over". Yipes. They both don't realize that K1 is kind of clueless
and would need some kind of HINT to him that they're interested.

It was HILARIOUS to see Mion's jealous side - geez K1, give
the girl a break and give her some flowers or something before she
has you skewered on a stake somewhere in town.

"Sprinkle salt on the ground, set the traps" - I was laughing like
an idiot over that.

And one last thought:
All of the killings that we are aware in this entire series of were
all done in a conventional manner with no signs of supernatural
power involved except the dissapearances and nobody really
knows what happened there.

My guess - lots of bones in the bottom of the swamp, and lots of
secrets in the town.

[Matrim]

Meakashi and Watanagashi hen however similar aren't the same story. Although most of the events are similar.

What? Wasn't the whole point of the answer arc to show the same sequence of events from the viewpoint of another character? I am so confused now... If it's not the same story the resemblance is uncanny, a lot bigger that the similarity between Onikakushi and Watanaghi for instance.

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by Matrim

What? Wasn't the whole point of the answer arc to show the same sequence of events from the viewpoint of another character? I am so confused now... If it's not the same story the resemblance is uncanny, a lot bigger that the similarity between Onikakushi and Watanaghi for instance.

It's just like watching the event unfold from a different perspective - it gives you more insight and clarity rather than an one-sided view.

[Keriaku]

Originally Posted by kj1980

It's just like watching the event unfold from a different perspective - it gives you more insight and clarity rather than an one-sided view.

So they are the exact same events?

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

Meakashi and Watanagashi hen however similar aren't the same story. Although most of the events are similar.

Originally Posted by kj1980

It's just like watching the event unfold from a different perspective - it gives you more insight and clarity rather than an one-sided view.

So which is it?

[LostBlue]

the answer is.... both ^^
Every chapter is its own possiblity in the world of Higurashi. And by connecting the dots from chapter to chapter you'll start seeing the real picture. Although everything isn't revealed until Minagoroshi Hen (the true answer). Just like the first three, you collect and analyze what you know. From Himatsubushi ~ Minagoroshi, K1 has stepped down as the pt of view where the story is told. Actually, all those chapters are told from different characters pt of view. Don't know about chp 08 yet since it's not out tho.

But there is one thing that bothers me from Watanagashi which wasn't suppose to happen in that arc, but I guess it's not going to matter in the end with the anime.

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

But there is one thing that bothers me from Watanagashi which wasn't suppose to happen in that arc, but I guess it's not going to matter in the end with the anime.

This is fun- I'm guessing it is the Rika suicide scene.

[Killer Loli]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

the answer is.... both ^^
Every chapter is its own possiblity in the world of Higurashi. And by connecting the dots from chapter to chapter you'll start seeing the real picture. Although everything isn't revealed until Minagoroshi Hen (the true answer). Just like the first three, you collect and analyze what you know. From Himatsubushi ~ Minagoroshi, K1 has stepped down as the pt of view where the story is told. Actually, all those chapters are told from different characters pt of view. Don't know about chp 08 yet since it's not out tho.

But there is one thing that bothers me from Watanagashi which wasn't suppose to happen in that arc, but I guess it's not going to matter in the end with the anime.

The series isn't going to cover Minagoroshi Hen will it?


P.S. i hope they portray K1 as well as they did in watanagashi in the next meakashi ep, he really was a strong, super cool person


P.S.S much respect for WinD crew excellent job

[thundrakkon]

I don't know if this has been discussed or if I missed it somehow, but why does Shion get in trouble for associating with Satoshi, but Mion does not for befriending Satoko?

[aliensporebomb]

I thought about that and my suspicion is that due to their
proximity in school there is no way to avoid her so might as
well be friendly to keep the peace. Also with the Sonozaki
family aware of her abuse they might have felt that is
punishment enough.

Shions' offense was that if there was an eventual union
between herself and Satoshi there might be children which
would be an offense to Sonozaki's far and wide I suspect.

Another thing:

Great moments in this one beyond the obvious big plot:

Spoiler:

12:34 worried frustrated mion voicing her thoughts thru a cloth!
12:51 overly smiley shion (yes, obvious kawaii moment)
12:55 oh my god! weeping shion - perfect.
13:12 angry jealous mion!
14:22 assertive in control shion!
14:25 the mion that cracked me up - that VOICE! Oh man...

and

14:47 K1 thanking Shion for the walk arm-in-arm with Mion witnessing?
Poor Mion.