2007-01-18, 08:51 | Link #1261 |
Mizore-chan
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Moe Land
Age: 43
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Though Tougo looks more like Steven Seagal
Either way I don't like what's happening to Tenma and Eri's friendship. I wish the other two namely Mikoto and Akira intervine between the situation and clear up this misunderstanding. poor Tenma-chan...
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2007-01-18, 11:25 | Link #1262 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
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Haha it look so lively here that i have to register an account to post something
It was quite quiet in Wannabe recentlybecause everyone agree with each other so much, have less debate for me to join in ^_^. Marsala and some others want to volunteer going there and post your opinion about chapter 208? It will ignite some cool discussion there. I admit i am EFC so what i say in defend Eri is less weight but gotta try anyway. Firstly i believe some people said the scene Eri recall tenma's image before enter the cafe in chapter 208 showed Eri's true attempt in winning Harima's heart is actually because her pride can't allow her to lose Tenma. Have a point there, but i do not agree. Tenma's image is Eri's motivation to enter the cafe and invite Harima to the Oyster bar, NOT her motivation to win Harima's heart. We all know that she interest in Harima when he in everyone's eyes still a single deliquent. So if you think Harima is trophy for her to prove her's seduce ability, you might think again now Let me give out a theory that no1 mentioned before. Remember Eri said that Harima has been there at night quite a lot of time recently. Doesn't it also mean that Eri was there MANY times before when harima doing his manga? And the reason that only this time she stepped in the bar and ask him for the promise was because Tenma's image and her thought of losing the one she love to her friend? Now let me counter the attack from those who believe Eri's pride took over her concsious for the past chapter? Because rather than that i will say this chapter (208)Eri swallowed her pride to follow her love desire. People often think that Eri's "seduced" smile was the prove that she have to win Harima from Tenma by anyway she can. Read her thought again just before she asked him out : "At this situation, i have to be forceful no matter how it make me look". Can't you see that her angel conscious won over this time (if you read 198). She alway act cool in front of others, she couldn't even admit her love to Harima with her three best friend , but this time she openly invite Harima's out for the dinner. You still think this is her FAKE'smile compare to her normal REAL action or is it her REAL feeling for once took over the FAKE pride that she always publicly act ? That's for Eri's defense atm, a direct attack to Odou followers now. If you think that Eri's love to Harima contain no sacrifice like what harima did......ummm......horse battle.... Kyoto Arc and a bunches of times when she sacrificed her pride (which is always important to her) just so she can be closer to him. For Harima's tunnel vision? Harima's eyes mostly only in Tenma from the start till now. Confirmed. Tenma is the first girl he was with and loved. Confirmed. Harima fell for Tenma because she confessed then threw him to the ground. Also Confirmed . Don't this recall you about something that mentioned in one of the first few chapters? ..."Suspension Bridge effect " .... and it actually work for almost every love at first sight's case. Love is feeling so it can be made up by your brain easily. If you are not around with girl much, the nervous and faster heart beats also can cause you to fall in love with a random girl even if she is not your type. Certainly this also may happen to Tenma and it may change her thought from Karasuma to Harima that way (like in Harima'smanga, anime season 1, chapter 26) BUT there was no mention about that before so it will rather have more chance to happen in Harima's case. If odou is final ending: Tenma and Eri 's relationship will not be the same anymore, Tenma will be trouble because Yakumo; once loved Harima and now he is her sister's boyfriend; the whole 200+ chapters will, after so many things happen, end up the same with what people predict after reading the first few chapters. I will surprised me if no1 come up with the new post against me later . However if you read every words in my post respectfully like i did to everyone post, even when you do not admit it loudly, you may look at Eri in a diffrent way now =P. PS: the relationship between Eri and Tenma do not worry me even a bit. Eri is the first one Tenma turn to always, along the whole series, and like an older sister to Tenma. When respectfully, Eri was always act cool in front of Tenma, but even not directly, always worry and along with others helping Tenma when Tenma in bad situation. If you have a brother as a close friend and always fight with him, you will see this is quite normal, even for "Do whatever you want" message EDIT:damn i post too long again, just realise Last edited by risingstar3110; 2007-01-18 at 11:35. |
2007-01-18, 13:22 | Link #1263 | |||||||||||||||
Lovestruck Fool
Fansubber
Join Date: Jan 2006
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You're right. Approaching Harima has nothing to do with her situation with Tenma. That's why the vision of Tenma, and the feelings of jitteriness that accompany it, have absolutely nothing to do with Harima and the situation in the cafe. I'm glad you can finally concede that much. Quote:
With Eri, you need to take extra care with what she says, especially when it's something concerning her image. Do you really think that she would really tell her friends if she didn't go on any dates, especially when they are all talking about the dates that they went on? Of course, if you want to assume that she's telling the truth here, doesn't a couple dates in four months strike you as a rather low number, for a popular girl who's in high school? Let's put aside the fact that Tenma herself has had the same amount of dates in that time. How many offers would Eri had to have turned down during that time period? What if, as with Harima (Ep.10) and the two confessions that she recieves during the flashback with Mikoto (Ep.15 S1), Eri was feeling sympathetic and wanted to find a way to let some of those guys down easily? How does this relate to whether or not she has deep or superficial relationships? We've seen how she handles her friendships and her relationship with Harima - shouldn't that settle the question rather easily? If Eri is going on a date with a guy on Ch.93, then doesn't it strike you as rather odd that she asks the other girls to come along with her, as well? I certainly hope that you don't expect girls to completely avoid having any interactions with guys outside of dating them. Quote:
There's no fear here that Eri is pursuing love for the sake of beating a rival. She wants to be with Harima because she loves Harima. The rivalry is relevant only insofar as it interferes with her ability to build her relationship with him. Quote:
If he was disturbed or otherwise repulsed by her behavior, wouldn't it make more sense for him not to tell her that he wanted to go with her to the opening? Quote:
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It's just that scene at the pool (Ch.36), where Tenma announces to Nara that she wants to be hit on and asked out, only to promptly reject him when he actually does. Now, you might choose to characterize Tenma and Eri as being superficial for enjoying to flirt and enjoying to recieve attention from guys, but it's actually very natural behaviour. At the end of the day, both girls care deeply for their friends and are always quick to help out in times of trouble, and both girls pour their hearts and souls into their respective relationships with the guys they love. If guys can freely socialize with girls without being considered superficial, then shouldn't the reverse also be true? Even if you take a character like Yakumo, her dialogues with the ghost suggest that her inability to socialize with guys is a weakness, rather than a sign of depth ("Do you really hate men?"). In my opinion, it is highly unfair to call either Tenma or Eri superficial, simply for showing themselves to be extroverted and for showing themselves to have social skills - especially when society tends to value those qualities over their opposites. Quote:
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That sounds about right. Oh, and without knowing what KJ is thinking, there is little that we can say on what any given character was "supposed" to be. Oudou was "supposed to" be the correct path. Then again, so was True Oudou. Quote:
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2007-01-18, 21:43 | Link #1264 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Man, SR is getting boring. Where's the humor?I have a feeling that this manga is getting more mushy-mushy romantic than gut-bursting funnier.
The "ZOMG I ALMOST MANAGED TO CONFESS STUPID ME!"-ish 'jokes' have been done to death. I hope KJ comes up with something suprising and original this time. |
2007-01-18, 23:20 | Link #1265 | |||||||||||||||||||||
Delurker
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Well, this is going to be a monster post, and my last one before reading 209 on Saturday (for which I will hopefully muster the willpower to stay spoiler-free). Why do I keep getting involved in shipping debates?
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2007-01-19, 03:27 | Link #1266 | ||||
Fanatical Kyon Follower
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Though i don't believe Eri would give up completely unless she was sure Harima would never change his mind. (in both Yakumo and Tenma's case) (Lol are you NeoSapien on StopTazmo? ) |
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2007-01-19, 08:45 | Link #1268 |
✘˵╹◡╹˶✘
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
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Busied the all day so didn't have time to post till now
Before actually starting the real post, i want to edit something to my last one, about the "suspension bridge effect". Marsala mentioned that the love caused by this effect can't be that strong (like how Harima loved Tenma), .....i will say it can.Note: The sudden confession, then Harima's fall can cause same effects with the suspension bridge, which are heart beating increased, nervous and others. This make Harima immediately thought that he fall in love (for the first time). It is similar or actually the SAME with "love in first sight" case. Then what happen if someone for the first time realise that they are in love with someone ? Do things that they saw on movie, which lover do: try to get closer to that person, always look and dream after them, follow them , change your own habbits so you can have the same with that person....etc..... like Harima did. I did experienced the same things for THREE long years, even when i know this effect throught psychology lesson (with diffrent name through). Same with Harima, i also once thought that is normal love. But even when i always looking for that girl when she is around, when she is not, my mind never think about her. And when after finished the final year of high school, i do not feel even a bit regret about have to be away from that girl, and THAT make me realise the diffrent between real love and the fake psychology effect. (Note: some people actually going alone with this relationship, but when they recognise this is not their type of girl/guy, break-up is result ) OK back to SR, chapter 208 and Eri now First about Harima and Tenma's relationship It is truth that Harima and Tenma have so many points in common, however those points is not the reason for at Harima have a crush with Tenma. Harima always after Tenma because she, in his eye, a cute girl (even when she was eatting in a weird way on the bus ). I read the series so many times before and i do not remember any other reason for Harima's love to Tenma other than that (i may forget some detail through). Her insensitive and a bit ( i say a bit) dense head angried Harima a lot of time too ( and he release the anger on the toilet's door ) and most of Tenma's character that Harima admired come from misunderstand; so maybe Odou is not the "true path " after all ^^. Hmm, another thing, Karasuma and Tenma are quite close along the story als(if you noticed in some SR season 2 chapter) so their relationship actually much better than HarimaxTenma Before starting go back to Eri i have to be clear about some special issue that we debate over lately. Everyone have a different point of view so if we can't make it clear , we certainly can't agree with each other. For example, about the part that Eri recall Tenma's image about the cafe. Not sure about how other think but in my opinion, unless Eri after Harima only in the puspose to win Tenma so she can prove she is more attractive; then later dumped Harima when she is success, then she is really wrong. However if she enter the cafe and directly invite him out rather than "playing the tired high school game" waiting for him to confess first (like her little devil said ^^) because she can't wait, to lose Harima 's love to Tenma( which seemed to be clearer to her since 203 -207); then isn't it reasonable? Isn't that what we all waiting for, something happen which can motivate Eri to step forward and admit to everyone her love to Harima? Once again i repeat, "Afraid of losing to Tenma is the motivation for Eri to face directly and partly admit her love with Harima, rather than waiting for more chances NOT the motivation for her to win Harima by anyway possible. Even without chapter 207's incidence, Eri will still remain loving harima, and will try to win Harima by any mean. "Not gonna Losing to Tenma" just speed things up, since now she have the danger of losing her love, NOT the reason for her to after Harima. If you still think that she is wrong after all of these then the problem will only be the different between our attitude. Eri's smile in chapter 208 was often compare with her look in chapter 204(?) when she invite Harima out for oyster bar (which was often described as her true self). However the lack in information up to chapter 208 was not enough to compare theses two. One was without much careful thought and prepare (she admit that she shouldn't say that also) another one was prepared carefully and even need "losing to Tenma" motivation that we mentioned above before she can be dare enough to step in and "forcefully do no matter how it make her look" to mention about the old promise. So both of these could be how the real Eri act, just in diffrent situation and time. The compare of these two scenes should not be discussed anymore unless you have more proofs.Still she forgot her pride and showed her true feeling for once, and i am glad of that . Eri's number of dates often created more debate also. But depend on each person 's view date may actually mean a lot different. To Eri, the "business" dinner she have with some guy (when she paid the bill for Harima) may be considered as a date to her, which will be so much different with the romantic date that most of us or characters in SR may think about. So even Eri have tonnes of date like that, it will not show anything about Eri's character. In contrast, Eri often mess up with situation which require romantic (except in chapter 208), so just let say that she haven't been in that much or none serious date for now. Until you can give the REAL prove to either support or against, i guess we don't need to go further on this as well. Finally about Eri's pride. Eri 's pride was not actually that great. The only case that i see her as a Ojou's style girl is when she keep refusing that she have any feeling to Hige Harima. Everyone can tell me more about the occasion that Eri's pride ruined Eri's character? Haha you are all lucky, because i will post another 20 paragraphs if Chapter 209 didn't come out Now what should i do, press to read the spoiler or wait for the manga @_@? *looking for a coin to toss*
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Last edited by risingstar3110; 2007-01-19 at 09:40. |
2007-01-19, 10:56 | Link #1269 | |||||||
Fanatical Kyon Follower
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You're also right on another point, when they do interact, sometimes even Harima can lose his patience with her and take his anger out on innocent bystanding toilet doors. Even so, that doesn't mean his feelings aren't solid, but they have yet to be truly tested. You have to remember this is a plot driven by misunderstandings, SR is misunderstandings. lol Quote:
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Eri the seductress?! Where is the jittery nervous cute girl from the incident in the mansion!? On the other hand you can also say it might be her taking this to the next level because she doesn't want to lose...him, for once she might actually feel like she could lose Harima for good since for the first time the girl she is in competition with actually has Harima's affections. Quote:
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2007-01-19, 11:02 | Link #1270 |
Mizore-chan
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Moe Land
Age: 43
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clicked the spoilers...well seems the factions are getting along well
Dunno about it but I feel something is gonna happen in a few more chapters. I can give it 1 or 3 more that's when we'll get results about the misundestandings again...I think XD
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2007-01-19, 12:04 | Link #1272 | |
Fanatical Kyon Follower
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For the record i see your point thats why i won't say anything further on the topic lol |
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2007-01-19, 12:11 | Link #1273 | |
Just call me Ojisan
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: U.K. Hampshire
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The very nature of this thread means that manga discussion doesn't need spoiler tags. The fact that hi no ken Jebus uses them when he posts a summary of the latest chapter is just a courtesy. |
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2007-01-19, 12:20 | Link #1274 | |
Fanatical Kyon Follower
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Though i did not know i couldn't mention you now who, better edit that post. EDIT: Nevermind you got it |
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2007-01-19, 12:22 | Link #1275 | |||
beyond
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: in the club
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Uh oh, looks like Yakumo's getting ready to throw down...
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2007-01-19, 13:29 | Link #1277 | ||||||||||||||||||||
Lovestruck Fool
Fansubber
Join Date: Jan 2006
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209 seems like a cute chapter - this sort of response from Harima was long overdue, given what we've been through in the past weeks. I don't care too much for the side chapter, though - it looks like Basketball was dropped suddenly for the sole purpose of reassigning Mikoto and Asou to other pairings. They both seem to have rebounded a little too easily.
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Eri hangs out at Mercado - that's where she meets with her friends after school. Quote:
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In 206, we see Yakumo shaken briefly, when the girls decide to put up the Eri and Harima dolls together. She reassures herself by saying that Harima will be the same always... forever. Now, perhaps you agree with her, given the fact that Harima seems nearly unwavering in terms of his tunnel vision - in which case that scene would simply demonstrate how well she knows him. But in my mind, that statement rings of a challenge: Yakumo may desire to have her vision of Harima to be constant and unchanging - but it isn't. From what I've seen, Harima has the potential within him to grow as a character - and he's showing it more than ever as of late, in his relationship with Eri. Ch. 209 is an excellent example of how he's softening up to her. Quote:
Of course, your also completely ignoring the fact that Tenma wants to be with Karasuma. Eri would be doing Tenma a disservice if she tried to pair Tenma and Harima up, given that Tenma wants to be with Karasuma. It's surprising that Yakumo seems to have glossed over this point, somewhere in formulating her master plan on "How Harima should be". Quote:
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In order for your statement to be valid, you would have to demonstrate that Eri used to frequently go on dates. You attempted to do so in your earlier reply, but I disproved that in my last post. Quote:
He resembles Harima in the fact that he is male and has black hair, although I hardly see how the issue is relevant. Quote:
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It's funny how you apply your prejudice to Imadori and Harry, though. After the Cultural Festival Play, Imadori turns down offers to dance when he hears Karen sing. Likewise, Harry seems to have a fairly strong friendship with Tougou, and he shows genuine concern for Lala as well. I think it's unfair to simply call them superficial, just because the stereotypes associated with being popular. Quote:
He sacrificed a single attempt to confess, but it wasn't his only window of opportunity to confess - he has had plenty of opportunities before and after. In that regard, no sacrifice is made. In addition, he recieves his payback immediately - Tenma finds out right away and thanks him. Contrast this to many of Eri's efforts, such as when she pays off Harima's debts or trys to sew for him - which go unnoticed. Also, I'd feel more impressed by his act if he didn't try to destroy Karasuma's manga, thinking that it was a confession attempt to Tenma, in the very next chapter. If Eri backed off just to preserve her dignity, then why does she tell Yakumo that she had better follow through with the kiss? Quote:
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Of course, if you don't care much for faith, then Ch.209 will have to suffice as proof by contradiction. By the way, I've noticed that you've sidestepped certain issues in your reply. Aren't you going to address Tenma's conduct during the pool episode? Or do the exact same accusations that you level against Eri hold true for Tenma, as well? |
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2007-01-19, 22:41 | Link #1278 | ||
Fanatical Kyon Follower
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Harima's words, but you are right he said that because he was confused as to why Eri was being so nice. Quote:
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hige, ojou, school |
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