(L) Genshiken 2 (Nidaime)

[gopackgo]

man im having a hard time reading Genshiken 2. I dont even know if i can call it genshiken anymore, it has strayed so far from what made genshiken great. The only thing that they ever do in 2 is talk about BL. It has nothing to do with being an otaku anymore. Also, why isnt this labeled shounen ai/ yaoi?

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by gopackgo

man im having a hard time reading Genshiken 2. I dont even know if i can call it genshiken anymore, it has strayed so far from what made genshiken great. The only thing that they ever do in 2 is talk about BL. It has nothing to do with being an otaku anymore. Also, why isnt this labeled shounen ai/ yaoi?

BL is pretty much an otaku thing as well. Fujoshis are part of the otaku culture, even if they are on a whole different spectrum.

[Myssa Rei]

Correct, or rather to be specific fujoshis are a type of Otaku subculture, but they're STILL Otaku, which is what Genshiken is about.

[Renegade334]

Ch.80.

Spoiler:

Looks like he finally confessed.



Saki tears up at the end, not sure what was her answer.

[Von Himmel]

...

Spoiler:

I think he's talking about her about her 'hanage'(I forget the english phrase for this.. I think it's something about nosehair?), but then it seems she knows what he's talking about and reject him ;_;

[Johnny]

Spoiler for ch 80:

I knew with her outgoing personality that there was no way she didn't catch on to the fact that Madarame liked her. Now he can move on like he should have done already and find new friends...

[Korps!]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

Ch.80.

Spoiler:

Looks like he finally confessed.



Saki tears up at the end, not sure what was her answer.

Spoiler for 80:

Saki tells him since Kosaka's here she can't date him. Madarame finally realizes that now that he has been properly rejected he really feels refreshed. When Saki hears that she cries. Too much kanji after that for me.

[Gus3]

Spoiler for Sigh...:

Kio could have just had her turn him down normally. But instead he chose to word it like this:

Page 27
Madarame: About that, the way you said it sounds like that if there wasn't Kousaka I would have a chance
Saki: I won't deny it...
Madarame: thank you...


Narratively, that means he still has a chance. Kio would not worded it like that if he didn't want the pairing arguments to continue.

I would have been alright with either outcome, rejection or acceptance. What I wanted was a resolution and it looks like we're not going to get that until the series ends. Kio you infuriating yet brilliant bastard!

[Korps!]

Originally Posted by Gus3

Spoiler for Sigh...:

Kio could have just had her turn him down normally. But instead he chose to word it like this:

Page 27
Madarame: About that, the way you said it sounds like that if there wasn't Kousaka I would have a chance
Saki: I won't deny it...
Madarame: thank you...


Narratively, that means he still has a chance. Kio would not worded it like that if he didn't want the pairing arguments to continue.

I would have been alright with either outcome, rejection or acceptance. What I wanted was a resolution and it looks like we're not going to get that until the series ends. Kio you infuriating yet brilliant bastard!

Just bring me the Spotted Flower end.

[zigantz22]

Originally Posted by Korps!

Just bring me the Spotted Flower end.

A Spotted Flower end is extremely unlikely, unless Kio wants to turn this into a contrived, completely unsatisfying mess.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by zigantz22

A Spotted Flower end is extremely unlikely, unless Kio wants to turn this into a contrived, completely unsatisfying mess.

What, like all the works he's done before Genshiken?

[Kazu-kun]

Well, if you think about it, this is already pretty contrived as it is.

Spoiler for 80:

I mean, Saki hasn't seen Madarame in ages, and it was never hinted before that she might have feelings for him, and now she says that if Kousaka wasn't in the picture she would consider Madarame?

Yeah, right.

Overall, I wouldn't be surprised if he does go for Spotted Flower end.

[zigantz22]

Originally Posted by aohige

What, like all the works he's done before Genshiken?

Too true lol

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Well, if you think about it, this is already pretty contrived as it is.

Spoiler for 80:

I mean, Saki hasn't seen Madarame in ages, and it was never hinted before that she might have feelings for him, and now she says that if Kousaka wasn't in the picture she would consider Madarame?

Yeah, right.

Overall, I wouldn't be surprised if he does go for Spotted Flower end.

Spoiler:

I really have no idea why Madarame asked that question to begin with, since it's really quite selfish; I'd like to think that she's just being nice with her answer, which would give me a much more positive impression of her character than the other implied reasoning. I just hope that he will finally move the fuck on.

I'd still be surprised at a Spotted Flower end, since such an end would basically require a considerable amount of character and relationship development from early Genshiken to be destroyed. I also think it's practically impossible that Saki will ever lose her strong, rather well-developed love for Kousaka, only to then fall in love with someone she's never appeared to have any feelings for, which is further strengthened by the fact that she knew of Madarame's feelings for her all this time, and yet she was never interested.

[Gus3]

Originally Posted by zigantz22

Too true lol

Spoiler:

I really have no idea why Madarame asked that question to begin with, since it's really quite selfish; I'd like to think that she's just being nice with her answer, which would give me a much more positive impression of her character than the other implied reasoning. I just hope that he will finally move the fuck on.

I'd still be surprised at a Spotted Flower end, since such an end would basically require a considerable amount of character and relationship development from early Genshiken to be destroyed. I also think it's practically impossible that Saki will ever lose her strong, rather well-developed love for Kousaka, only to then fall in love with someone she's never appeared to have any feelings for, which is further strengthened by the fact that she knew of Madarame's feelings for her all this time, and yet she was never interested.

Spoiler for Well...:

I don't really see how the character development from earlier would be destroyed. People break up, get into new relationships, stuff like that happens.

I've always seen Saki and Kousaka as the main couple, or at least as close as you can get to the main couple of the series. But, I never felt like they really meshed. I like the couple in Spotted Flower, they just have more interesting chemistry as a couple.

I'm not usually into romance mangas, but Spotted Flower caught my attention. And I think that a Spotted Flower ending is still a strong possibility, and I'm even more sure about it then I was before chapter 80.

I've read a number of "alternate universe" mangas. You take the characters from a popular manga and tell a different story. Simple. Here's the thing though. Spotted Flower doesn't strike me as being in an alternate universe. In these types of mangas it is always obvious that the characters are in an alternate universe and its always obvious who the characters are, meaning we know they're names and everything. Its obvious who the characters in Spotted Flower are, but Kio has yet to reveal their names, most of their backstory, and even their friends, characters who are usually included in AU mangas. Likely because he doesn't want to make things too obvious. He wants to keep us guessing. My guess is the closer Spotted Flower and Genshiken get to their ends, the more their stories will start to converge.

Also, there's the rejection. I'm not looking at Madarame's intentions behind his question, I'm looking at Kio's reasoning for wording that scene the way that he did. He could have done it in a different yet still very emotional way, while still making it clear that it was a complete rejection. Instead, he made it clear that Madarame still has a shot, he wouldn't have worded it the way he did if that wasn't what he was trying to imply. Otherwise, Madarame would have just looked desperate and Saki's answer would have made her look like a liar. He was basically saying, "this part of the story isn't over," "yes he still has a chance," "keep reading my stuff if you want to see what happens between them". At the very least he's trying to keep the pairing debates going.

On an unrelated note, someone in another forum told me that Kousaka's name is written in a feminine way in Japanese. Is this true? If so, why do you think its written like that?

[zigantz22]

Originally Posted by Gus3

Spoiler for Well...:

I don't really see how the character development from earlier would be destroyed. People break up, get into new relationships, stuff like that happens.

I've always seen Saki and Kousaka as the main couple, or at least as close as you can get to the main couple of the series. But, I never felt like they really meshed. I like the couple in Spotted Flower, they just have more interesting chemistry as a couple.

I'm not usually into romance mangas, but Spotted Flower caught my attention. And I think that a Spotted Flower ending is still a strong possibility, and I'm even more sure about it then I was before chapter 80.

I've read a number of "alternate universe" mangas. You take the characters from a popular manga and tell a different story. Simple. Here's the thing though. Spotted Flower doesn't strike me as being in an alternate universe. In these types of mangas it is always obvious that the characters are in an alternate universe and its always obvious who the characters are, meaning we know they're names and everything. Its obvious who the characters in Spotted Flower are, but Kio has yet to reveal their names, most of their backstory, and even their friends, characters who are usually included in AU mangas. Likely because he doesn't want to make things too obvious. He wants to keep us guessing. My guess is the closer Spotted Flower and Genshiken get to their ends, the more their stories will start to converge.

Also, there's the rejection. I'm not looking at Madarame's intentions behind his question, I'm looking at Kio's reasoning for wording that scene the way that he did. He could have done it in a different yet still very emotional way, while still making it clear that it was a complete rejection. Instead, he made it clear that Madarame still has a shot, he wouldn't have worded it the way he did if that wasn't what he was trying to imply. Otherwise, Madarame would have just looked desperate and Saki's answer would have made her look like a liar. He was basically saying, "this part of the story isn't over," "yes he still has a chance," "keep reading my stuff if you want to see what happens between them". At the very least he's trying to keep the pairing debates going.

Perhaps it wouldn't destroy those early developments, but it would unnecessarily cheapen a plethora of important decisions and significant character development from early Genshiken, and it's just not worth it at this point in the story, since it would ultimately occur solely in order to satisfy a small, but vocal, section of readers who have continuously hoped that Saki would somehow discard her feelings for Kousaka at some point, so that she can miraculously end up with Madarame, a person she's never had any romantic feelings for. Yes, people do often break up, but it's much more rare for people to fall out of love, which is what would be required here.

I've always thought Saki and Kousaka are an excellent couple, with pretty great chemistry, and, at the very least, they have far more realistic and believable chemistry than any she would have with Madarame were they to become a couple. Yes, their chemistry is quite good in Spotted Flower, but I really don't think it would translate well here at all.

A Spotted Flower end has always been an extremely slim possibility to me, and it remains so, due to the noticeable lack of proper and realistic foreshadowing to this eventual outcome. I do believe Kio wants to keep us guessing about the actual nature of Spotted Flower, but I also greatly believe it's an alternate universe, due to the rather strong likelihood that he wouldn't want to reveal their names or connections simply because of the very real possibility that it would prematurely cause many more readers to suddenly consider that as the true end of Genshiken. I also just think it was written to satisfy and appeal to a portion of readers (the Saki and Madarame shippers) that might otherwise not be satisfied by the actual conclusion of Genshiken.

Spoiler:

Yet, I have to look at Madarame's intentions behind the question he asked Saki, because it effectively undercuts his admirable decision to refrain from disturbing the Saki and Kousaka relationship with his own selfish hopes for his love of Saki to be returned. Basically, I just think, as always, that Kio's simply teasing the shippers of this particular pairing, without ever showing any actual evidence that would support it ever coming to fruition. At this point, I'd honestly want him to end up with anyone from his small harem rather than Saki, which I now think is an even more likely direction for Kio to take, due to the distinct possibility that Madarame will finally move on following this rejection. However vaguely worded said rejection might have seemed, it was still a rejection.

Still, despite all this analysis, the biggest part necessary for this eventual outcome is Saki breaking it off and falling out of love with Kousaka, which I don't see happening at all, without these moments coming off as unsatisfying, unnecessary and completely contrived, since there's been no hints toward any legitimate reasoning as to why she would ever do this. Also, I just don't think Kio would dissolve a relationship that satisfyingly developed throughout the entirety of early Genshiken, unless he wants to turn off a considerable section of the fanbase from continuing to read this.

In the end, however strongly I disagree with some of your points, I do somewhat understand your reasoning as to the possibility of this turning into a Spotted Flower conclusion, but do you honestly believe that Madarame should be rewarded for selfishly holding on to his unrequited love for his best friend's girlfriend for so long? Because I really, really don't. I think he should move on and find love elsewhere, and, for once, confidently decide to stop clinging onto a worn-out fantasy.

[Knight Hawk]

Reading the spoilers here, i was a bit worried. But with the english translation released, im relieved. Madarame can finally, finally move on with his life. Now get together with Sue!

[Master Chibi]

It's about fucking time.

Now the manga can stop using his as comedic relief and let him join the ranks of just enjoying life like the rest of the god damn cast. It was getting on my nerves regardless of the 'harem' he had formed. Shit that infuriated me at the end of Genshiken, at the very least this makes up for it somewhat.

[Kanon]

I'm glad this has finally been dealt with. Madarame can finally move on. It was worth making this seque for that alone.

[kniteowl]

Wow it concluded similar to what I expected, "The return of the nose hair" lol

This is totally out of character but, I wish they'd set up a prank after all this, at the very least set it up on Keiko and Hato so Madarame can get his revenge lol. Although I can only see Sue would be the only person who would do something like that.

I was also half expecting the main cast to spy on Madarame & Saki from the building on the other side from Genshiken through the windows. But I guess they loved Madarame too much for that :P.

Now that it's all over, I feel like I have nothing to look forward too when reading Genshiken anymore . A part from Sue of course.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Gus3

On an unrelated note, someone in another forum told me that Kousaka's name is written in a feminine way in Japanese. Is this true? If so, why do you think its written like that?

Yes, it is. There are countless ways to spell Makoto, most of them masculine, but Kousaka's name is spelled in a way that's usually feminine.