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B2-Lancer · 2011-01-09, 08:44

I was watching on Retro-TV this weekend a once uber-popular TV show that gave me an idea of one sneaky way how Haruhi's writer could wrap up the series without contradicting any physical laws or skewed time-lines or flawed story logic laced throughout the show. This top-rated iconic TV show managed to literally and credibly wipe out an ENTIRE season like all the intrigue and drama in it never happened without losing fans! Does anyone here recall "Dallas"??

For me, the real teaser that the writer could use to keep us watching after cleverly hinting such for a few chapters would be the question, is it Kyon or Haruhi??

quigonkenny · 2011-01-09, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by B2-Lancer

I was watching on Retro-TV this weekend a once uber-popular TV show that gave me an idea of one sneaky way how Haruhi's writer could wrap up the series without contradicting any physical laws or skewed time-lines or flawed story logic laced throughout the show. This top-rated iconic TV show managed to literally and credibly wipe out an ENTIRE season like all the intrigue and drama in it never happened without losing fans! Does anyone here recall "Dallas"??

For me, the real teaser that the writer could use to keep us watching after cleverly hinting such for a few chapters would be the question, is it Kyon or Haruhi??

As one of who is likely only a few regulars on this forum who was actually old enough to be cognizant back when Dallas pulled that, I can safely say that they did lose fans. Even though the series went on another four years by dint of sheer inertia, and likely regained a few of the more rabid Bobby Ewing fans that left when he did, that was arguably the moment it jumped the shark.

Goggen · 2011-01-09, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by B2-Lancer

I was watching on Retro-TV this weekend a once uber-popular TV show that gave me an idea of one sneaky way how Haruhi's writer could wrap up the series without contradicting any physical laws or skewed time-lines or flawed story logic laced throughout the show. This top-rated iconic TV show managed to literally and credibly wipe out an ENTIRE season like all the intrigue and drama in it never happened without losing fans! Does anyone here recall "Dallas"??

For me, the real teaser that the writer could use to keep us watching after cleverly hinting such for a few chapters would be the question, is it Kyon or Haruhi??

"It was all a dream". You really think that would be "clever" or "sneaky"?

Gamer_2k4 · 2011-01-09, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goggen

"It was all a dream". You really think that would be "clever" or "sneaky"?

I think it would explain a HECK of a lot.

brocko · 2011-01-09, 23:07

I think it'd be a lazy cop-out

But hey, it's been done twice before in Melancholy and Disappearance already right? The series still seems to be chugging on strong after that, so dream on i say!

quigonkenny · 2011-01-10, 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by brocko

I think it'd be a lazy cop-out

But hey, it's been done twice before in Melancholy and Disappearance already right? The series still seems to be chugging on strong after that, so dream on i say!

Quite the opposite, actually. In Melancholy, it was "just a dream" for Haruhi, but it still happened, and was very real for (most of?) the remainder of the main cast, especially the audience POV character, Kyon. In Disappearance, the question as to whether it really happened is purely a matter of semantics, but it was still very real to Kyon (and the two three two others who visited that "world" for a short time), not to mention Yuki, who probably remembers the experience from a number of perspectives.

brocko · 2011-01-10, 03:40

I knew someone was bound to pick my joke apart lol

I just wanted to make a jestful parallel between the end cover-up stories for both Melancholy and Disappearance with typical "it was all a dream" type scenario's, where everything conviently reverts back to their original status quo or where ground-breaking events are rendered rather moot.

In Melancholy:
What? You saw the world in the process of being recreated? Nah man, it was all just a dream. I mean we still here ain't we?
In Disappearance:
What? You saw and lived in a different world to ours for a few days? Nah man, you just bumped your head and fell down some stairs, you were probably dreaming it all up in your coma.

wistfulloner · 2011-01-17, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by brocko

I knew someone was bound to pick my joke apart lol

I just wanted to make a jestful parallel between the end cover-up stories for both Melancholy and Disappearance with typical "it was all a dream" type scenario's, where everything conviently reverts back to their original status quo or where ground-breaking events are rendered rather moot.

In Melancholy:
What? You saw the world in the process of being recreated? Nah man, it was all just a dream. I mean we still here ain't we?
In Disappearance:
What? You saw and lived in a different world to ours for a few days? Nah man, you just bumped your head and fell down some stairs, you were probably dreaming it all up in your coma.

I think kenny was just trying to dispel the notion that those dreams were "a lazy cop out". The "dreams" are crucial pillars for the story, and are much more than a lazy plot direction. "And in the end, Kyon was just having a bad dream" is a horrifying way to end the story, but in Haruhi's dreams, the world better be praying.

But I get your joke. Shit, Kyon dreaming within his dreams? Reminds me of a certain movie out there...

B2-Lancer · 2011-01-17, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by wistfulloner

I think kenny was just trying to dispel the notion that those dreams were "a lazy cop out". The "dreams" are crucial pillars for the story, and are much more than a lazy plot direction..

I can't rattle them off, but there are animes that falter and fall under the weight of their own contradictions and Swiss cheese logic and cascade of detached events which really continue on under the momentum of more zealot fans, as I believe is occuring with Haruhi, even long before "Endless Eight". I think when writers leave it up to their readers to tie up loose ends and make rational sense of a sly unthought-out potboiler, it's time to review just where this roller coaster is going. Hit writers DO get lazy and take nondiscriminating readers for granted to swallow whatever thoughtless crap they shovel them to milk all from a cash cow as they could. I'm sure we all know favorite TV shows that just should've wrapped up and ended with their heads and drama high ("Babylon 5)" than continue into a pathetic senseless lame shadow of their former selves (orig Star Trek and Galactica). Long ago I doubted Haruhi was any "God" since she presented notions that contradicted her own existance and then this crowd of hyper-beings marching in and bewildering "reasonings" to excuse senseless situations and truely non-functional characters. To me, it's the sign of writers running out of credible (not necessarily plausible) story ideas throwing nonsense against the wall and hoping it sticks. I think one satisfying ending to the series' present bemusing confusion state is a "dream-bridge" scenario where all this action is actually occuring in a shared dream of Haruhi and Kyon. I believe Kyon is at very least the "generator" (or the clueless God) of such a dream because to my knowledge there's never been a scene where Haruhi or other characters are operating without his presence or observation. It would be a clever romance gimmick if this gimmick were a way for Kyon to eventually meet an unmet Haruhi "in the flesh" and still be as familiar with another asthough they were always together when it's all over (hope I'm stating this right). Of course all IMHO.

wistfulloner · 2011-01-17, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by B2-Lancer

I can't rattle them off, but there are animes that falter and fall under the weight of their own contradictions and Swiss cheese logic and cascade of detached events which really continue on under the momentum of more zealot fans, as I believe is occuring with Haruhi, even long before "Endless Eight". I think when writers leave it up to their readers to tie up loose ends and make rational sense of a sly unthought-out potboiler, it's time to review just where this roller coaster is going. Hit writers DO get lazy and take nondiscriminating readers for granted to swallow whatever thoughtless crap they shovel them to milk all from a cash cow as they could. I'm sure we all know favorite TV shows that just should've wrapped up and ended with their heads and drama high ("Babylon 5)" than continue into a pathetic senseless lame shadow of their former selves (orig Star Trek and Galactica). Long ago I doubted Haruhi was any "God" since she presented notions that contradicted her own existance and then this crowd of hyper-beings marching in and bewildering "reasonings" to excuse senseless situations and truely non-functional characters. To me, it's the sign of writers running out of credible (not necessarily plausible) story ideas throwing nonsense against the wall and hoping it sticks. I think one satisfying ending to the series' present bemusing confusion state is a "dream-bridge" scenario where all this action is actually occuring in a shared dream of Haruhi and Kyon. I believe Kyon is at very least the "generator" (or the clueless God) of such a dream because to my knowledge there's never been a scene where Haruhi or other characters are operating without his presence or observation. It would be a clever romance gimmick if this gimmick were a way for Kyon to eventually meet an unmet Haruhi "in the flesh" and still be as familiar with another asthough they were always together when it's all over (hope I'm stating this right). Of course all IMHO.

Before you say Kyoani are running out of ideas, it would help to know that every plot direction was pre-planned from season 1. You will notice this from endless junk piling up in the club house even from the beginning episodes and their relevance to future (or past, with the episode jumping) events.

And Haruhi isn't technically a God; even Yuki and Mikuru have different views on what she is. Haruhi is just a being with reality changing powers, its up to you what you want to call her. Furthermore, this is science fiction, its as un-grounded from reality as it gets.

I like that extremely cheesy ending of yours, but unless Kyoani decides to throw a curveball I can't see that happening

Gamer_2k4 · 2011-01-17, 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by wistfulloner

Before you say Kyoani are running out of ideas, it would help to know that every plot direction was pre-planned from season 1. You will notice this from endless junk piling up in the club house even from the beginning episodes and their relevance to future (or past, with the episode jumping) events.

That's easy enough to do when seven of the novels were written before the anime even started. (Kyoani aren't the ones writing the stories.)

wistfulloner · 2011-01-18, 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4

That's easy enough to do when seven of the novels were written before the anime even started. (Kyoani aren't the ones writing the stories.)

Yup, and that's exactly why they won't run out of ideas. Kyoani were just being smart leaving those small details around.

Kuroi Hadou · 2011-01-18, 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by wistfulloner

Yup, and that's exactly why they won't run out of ideas. Kyoani were just being smart leaving those small details around.

Can I ask what happens if the author starts to run out of ideas?

Gamer_2k4 · 2011-01-18, 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

Can I ask what happens if the author starts to run out of ideas?

I imagine you'd get things like Anti-SOS Brigades. Or maybe he'd try to get away with using the same story twice in the same book, only with slightly altered plots?

Kuroi Hadou · 2011-01-18, 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4

I imagine you'd get things like Anti-SOS Brigades.

Isn't that what the Computer Club is for?

keri · 2011-01-18, 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4

I imagine you'd get things like Anti-SOS Brigades. Or maybe he'd try to get away with using the same story twice in the same book, only with slightly altered plots?

It took me a minute to figure out the second reference part.

Joe4evr · 2011-01-18, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

Isn't that what the Computer Club is for?

No, he was sarcastically referring to volume 9.

Kuroi Hadou · 2011-01-18, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe4evr

No, he was sarcastically referring to volume 9.

I'm aware. I was making my own little joke.

Goggen · 2011-01-18, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4

I imagine you'd get things like Anti-SOS Brigades. Or maybe he'd try to get away with using the same story twice in the same book, only with slightly altered plots?

How is that "running out of ideas"?

Gamer_2k4 · 2011-01-19, 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goggen

How is that "running out of ideas"?

Well, we've got an alien, an esper, a time traveler, and a girl who some think is God who generates closed space. Their opposition? Surely it's something brilliant and original?

Oh. It's an alien, an esper, a time traveler, and a girl who some think is God who generates closed space. Wonderful. Good to see he's keeping it fresh.

As for the other one, I would say it's pretty obvious that you're running out of ideas if the only way you can fill up a book is by using a single story twice. "Sure, but this is a new way of doing things! It's innovative!" you say. Perhaps I'd buy that if it didn't take the author FOUR YEARS to write a conclusion.

2003 - 3 books
2004 - 2 books
2005 - 2 books
2006 - 1 book
2007 - 1 book
2008 - 0 books
2009 - 0 books
2010 - 0 books

See a pattern?

2011-01-09, 23:07	Link #3085
brocko Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯	I think it'd be a lazy cop-out But hey, it's been done twice before in Melancholy and Disappearance already right? The series still seems to be chugging on strong after that, so dream on i say! __________________ http://www.freerice.com/ - For each word you get right, 10 grains of rice is donated through the UN to help end world hunger.

2011-01-10, 03:40	Link #3087
brocko Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯	I knew someone was bound to pick my joke apart lol I just wanted to make a jestful parallel between the end cover-up stories for both Melancholy and Disappearance with typical "it was all a dream" type scenario's, where everything conviently reverts back to their original status quo or where ground-breaking events are rendered rather moot. In Melancholy: What? You saw the world in the process of being recreated? Nah man, it was all just a dream. I mean we still here ain't we? In Disappearance: What? You saw and lived in a different world to ours for a few days? Nah man, you just bumped your head and fell down some stairs, you were probably dreaming it all up in your coma. __________________ http://www.freerice.com/ - For each word you get right, 10 grains of rice is donated through the UN to help end world hunger.

2011-01-09, 08:44	Link #3081
B2-Lancer Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	I was watching on Retro-TV this weekend a once uber-popular TV show that gave me an idea of one sneaky way how Haruhi's writer could wrap up the series without contradicting any physical laws or skewed time-lines or flawed story logic laced throughout the show. This top-rated iconic TV show managed to literally and credibly wipe out an ENTIRE season like all the intrigue and drama in it never happened without losing fans! Does anyone here recall "Dallas"?? For me, the real teaser that the writer could use to keep us watching after cleverly hinting such for a few chapters would be the question, is it Kyon or Haruhi??