2010-04-06, 14:54 | Link #22921 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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so in addition to finding out that he was using her and her people from the start for his OWN goals (with freeing japan being just a part of it)
and the fact that he had a part in what happened to euphie and the fact that he just up and left them in the middle of their battle for independence he also ended up threatening both Suzaku AND her with a bomb for no apparent reason (she's on his side after all) and the moment she runs away is RIGHT AFTER Suzaku throws away that bomb and points out that he (Lelouch) had used her and the japanese to his own goals she wasn't exactly thinking clearly at that point
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2010-04-06, 21:31 | Link #22923 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Virginia
Age: 46
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To my mind it's sorta like when life throws you a curve. Sometimes you just roll wit it, but other times it's such a shock that you literally run away just so you don't have to deal with it!
In Kallen's case it was just such a shock! Yeah, she did "drop the ball" but I have to ask this; What would you have done?
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2010-04-06, 21:35 | Link #22924 | |
Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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Btw, Lelouch didn't manipulate her into killing people, that's choice she made herself. She bought into his more blood for blood already spilled logic. Not to mention that Zero legitimately told her she could back out if she wanted.
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2010-04-07, 04:11 | Link #22925 | |||
Srsly ?
Artist
Join Date: Apr 2008
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It's not exactly the same. She ran away cause at this very moment, it was just too much to take for her. Very un-Kallen~ish if you ask me (And I thought she'd be the one to shoot, so I was really surprised to see that) but it works nonetheless. We know they needed Zero, and she knows that too, as she said in R2. But at this very moment, it's just like Milly told her in episode 9, when things are getting accumulated, you end up down on your knees. That was basically what happened there, she was overwhelmed by news and she had nothing left but two choices. Save Lelouch, who she just learnt, was using her, got a weird power, wants to make a carpaccio of all of them, or run away. It's not like if she had picked up the worst choice : Helping Suzaku ( What ? Had I been at her place I would have kicked Lelouch's butt, so yeah), she simply run away cause without any delay left to think, it was the most natural thing to do there. Kallen isn't a Mary Sue and she is by no means perfect. She is a soldier, she killed people and she made wrong choices. Anyway, her choice was perfectly understable from the pov of the character who is in action. I don't think I would have been able to think straight at her place either. Quote:
The thing is, it's the classica revelation moment, the character can kill someone and yet he doesn't cause it deserves the plot. I think that's what happened there, nothing more, nothing less. Or if we really wanna grap at straws I'd say she was already shaken by the fact something was wrong with Zero, like Ogi said, and this tied to Suzaku's words, to her questions about Zero and so on lead her to drove more of an emotional reponse that a physical one. Or maybe she knew it wasn't going to kill Zero and it was only about seeing his face; I don't remember the convo of this scene, But I think that might work. Had Kallen believe Zero was in danger, I'm sure she would have reacted, like she did countless times in the past. Quote:
It's even a rule in law :P (Actually, the leader is the one responsible for his subordinate actions. So If I wanna use my lawyer brain...Lelouch has to bear Kallen's mistake on his shoulder. Bah, more or less, at his point...: D) |
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2010-04-07, 06:06 | Link #22926 | |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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I'm far from an expert in law, but I'm pretty sure you can be sentenced even if you were just following orders, depending on the circumstances. Lelouch told Kallen she could back out if she wanted to, yet she didn't. Kallen was also ready to kill long before Lelouch came along, and even without his orders, she was thinking of getting rid of her friends from the student council more than once to keep her secrets safe or to dispose of Euphie's knight. It's once thing to kill on the battlefield, and another to cut the throat of someone who trusts you - especially if it's a civilian. Now, Kallen had her reasons, but I believe every person is responsible for their actions, orders or not. It's too convenient an excuse for someone who prefers to not think for themselves.
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2010-04-07, 09:58 | Link #22929 |
Disabled By Request
Join Date: Jan 2010
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...You people are giving me a headache... Narr.
Kallen didn't kill 'naturally', she knew HOW to kill. Cut a person's throat and they bleed to death, shoot them with the machine gun of a KMF, and they are shredded by the slugs. It's logic. Let me use some dialogue from the first episode. The very first. "We got the gas, why don't we use it here?!" "Because that'd mean a bloodbath!" For someone so casual about manslaughter, she seemed offended when Nagata suggested using the 'gas' in Tokyo Settlement -- Tokyo Settlement being where Britannians lived. How, exactly, does that seem casual? Let's not forget when Zero comes along and after Narita, at the port battle she says "I was alright with the killing." Read in between the lines, the context is the answer. She didn't approve of it, but she did it. Let me explain: If she was naturally killing people, how come she seemed against it? Yes she almost pulled wetwork on Shirley when she asked her if she was 'Hiding anything from them.', but judging from her expression - she probably didn't want to do it. Indeed, Kallen is a devil on the battlefield -- What? You want her to negotiate and invite them to tea? Both sides enter battle expecting casualties, both expecting the other soldier to do their job and kill the opposition. ...That's all. Killing because you have to on the battlefield, someone doesn't have to be ax crazy or happy while doing it. Or ask stupid questions right before killing an enemy. "The only ones who should kill are those ready to die themselves." being the quote i'm looking for when it comes to the battlefield line. Kallen probably killed people other then soldiers, too. I won't say that isn't a possibility, but in her character she seemed like she wanted to avoid doing that as much as possible. From what I remember, she killed soldiers and nothing but soldiers. Enemy soldiers. You don't go into battle expecting right or wrong to be the determining factor. You go into battle expecting life and death. |
2010-04-07, 10:03 | Link #22930 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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Right ? Lelouch didn't have much more to go on either but that didn't stop him from smilling like a psycho the first time he killed people
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2010-04-07, 10:19 | Link #22931 | |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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Lelouch was on his own. His own father threw him away, he was sent as a hostage to an enemy country, and later he had to rely on the Ashford family. He also had to protect his sister. They could have been killed at any time when they were hostages, by assassins sent by family members or at the orders of Genbu Kururugi. And when they finally had found some happiness regardless, their father decided to invade Japan. Lelouch found his mother lying in a puddle of her own blood, a crippled Nunnally burried underneath, and then had his father tell him that he had "no use for the weak", that he and Nunnally had never really been alive but only existed at someone else's whim. I realize that Kallen has her own history to deal with, but I firmly believe Lelouch's past belongs in a class of its own. There's a reason he hates being powerless so much he'd rather put a gun to his own head. Kallen might have been hardened by war, but I sure as hell don't want to be Lelouch's therapist. The fact that he's a genius probably doesn't help.
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2010-04-07, 11:00 | Link #22932 | |
Srsly ?
Artist
Join Date: Apr 2008
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If we had to take the whole Kallen/Lelouch issue into custody, Lelouch would be responsible, you have everything to have him burn at stake for Kallen's mistakes. But it's not about law so...I don't even remember what was said and what was the point. Will be back later, sorry, exams are killing my brain. EDIT : And now we are going to compare this one and this one pain to see who had the most reason to act ? God, Kallen, run away, they'll never leave you alone. The girl didn't have reasons to fight now. sqfhqsjldhglsgh I'm off. |
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2010-04-07, 11:06 | Link #22933 |
Disabled By Request
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Don't worry Kallen! I'll protect you!... Marginally better then Nogitsune would, and she is liable to trade you in for a hug from Clovis.
I forgot what this was about, it's just when Zanger said Kallen killed 'casually' that ticked me off. Anyway.. we shouldn't wage war on holy ground.... No, i'm not being metaphorical, i'm being serious. |
2010-04-07, 11:29 | Link #22934 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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Lelouch had a bad life
so did kallen and given that Lelouch wasn't oppressed by the britannians like the japanese were, i find his joy at killing them rather odd but whatever i'm just glad someone's finally using one of my avatars
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2010-04-07, 11:34 | Link #22935 | ||
Sword That Cleaves Evil
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Earth Cradle
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Though the death of her brother who was pushing a resistance movement, against Lelouch's "innocent" mother being killed, and sister crippled and blind. Then thrown out on the streets with dead bodies for miles as a small child, can be quite more traumatic.
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2010-04-07, 11:44 | Link #22936 | ||
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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which was NOT at the start of the war Quote:
Lelouch spent the first part of his life in britannia another year with suzaku's family (which he admits was the happiest time of his life) and the rest living with the ashfords (another noble family) he never suffered oppression by britannia and hence his willingness to kill them all is quite perplexing anyway, your claim that killing just comes naturally to Kallen is completely nonsensical she's one of the few characters who actually HAS a reason to fight against her enemies (both Lelouch and suzkau fight against their own people) she's never shown to enjoy killing, and clearly hates it when innocents get hurt (from either side of the conflict) so its completely wrong on both counts
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2010-04-07, 11:50 | Link #22938 |
Disabled By Request
Join Date: Jan 2010
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...I'll have you know I find this Guren avi F*cking awesome, Blade. I have shamelessly 'appropriated' it and a few others.
Don't judge me. I got 3 Kallen avi and 2 (one in use.) that you've made. Be proud of your avi workage. Once I yoink-- err.. 'Appropriate' a Kallen siggy I will be set. ...Anyways, I'm hoping this is done. I need to go look for something now... No, I won't be on Avatar Request thread. Don't be absurd. Kallen and Lelouch deserve to be happy. With eachother! Lelouch has had a hard life... Kallen lost the person that meant most to her, and was forced to play invalid... They both deserve positive rep. Kay you guys? You ready?! +Rep Kallen +Rep Lelouch ....----Rep Rolo |
2010-04-07, 11:55 | Link #22939 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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because ALL of the combat characters kill people whenever they need to suzaku STARTS OUT less then fine about it, but soon enough he gets over it its not a unique kallen trait, and in her case its rather justified @ Arbitres glad you like it
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2010-04-07, 12:09 | Link #22940 |
Sword That Cleaves Evil
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Earth Cradle
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Suzaku avoided killing at all cost, both in season 1 and R2, until he became the Knight of Zero. Kallen always went for the kill, and killing Shirley or any other innocents who were little suspicious of them would not of been justified.
Don't mistake it for a bashing of her though, it's one of the many aspects I enjoyed about her, her loyalty to the cause was strong.
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