Kanon (2002) Generic Discussion

[rayearth]

It's really if you are willing to invest enough into it. I wasn't born Japanese, I didn't know Japanese, but I took the trouble to take Japanese in university (my original degree had nothing to do with Japanese, even linguistics as a whole) and I come out 3 years later able to understand most of I need to. If you are serious enough about doing something, you WILL go out of your way to do it, if you don't, well, then yeah, you're stuck with waiting.

From the past 2 replies it seems like my original message was misunderstood. I'm not setting out a "you ungrateful _insert random word_ who just complains bla bla bla" thing that most fansubbers like to throw back at those who complain about the stuff they do. I'm trying to say "instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you when it's most probably never going to happen, why not do it yourself?" Of course, that's given if you're able and willing to "push away" other things in favor to learn Japanese.

As for how much it takes, it's not that much. If you do get your act together and take a real Japanese course. If you take it seriously, you'll be out in 1-2 years knowing all you need. I took it easy and it took 3 years, and just to pull this post a bit back to topic, I was able to play, understand and enjoy Kanon in my 2nd year, so it isn't that hard and it doesn't take that long.

[TronDD]

Yeah, learning the language is something that could be done instead of waiting for official translations. It's not as easy as saying, "Oh just spend 3 years studying the language."

At least, in the case of games, you get written words and all the time you need to look stuff up. Kinda kills the mood if you're looking up every word, though, but I guess you don't have to be even remotely fluent to get through it.

[rayearth]

Originally Posted by TronDD

Yeah, learning the language is something that could be done instead of waiting for official translations. It's not as easy as saying, "Oh just spend 3 years studying the language."

Nobody said it's easy. It's certainly not as easy as just downloading and watching fansubs (which most people have taken for granted these days). This was what I meant by "willing to invest enough" - if you're willing to get through the usually difficult process of learning a new language.

If you do love Kanon (and/or bishoujo games, Anime/Manga, things to do with Japanese as a whole, etc) enough to make such an investment, it's well worth it. If you don't, then well, keep waiting :P

[bluemist]

Back to Kanon:

I have just started delving into the world of 'doujin games'. You know, the little game other people make which is based on an anime or a Japanese game. I recently saw an Onegai Twins bishoujo game, hehe that was quite good (graphic-wise).

I was wondering if there are some nice doujin games for Kanon... I'm supposed to expect that there are gonna be a lot of them, based on Kanon's popularity...

[zalas]

Originally Posted by bluemist

Back to Kanon:

I have just started delving into the world of 'doujin games'. You know, the little game other people make which is based on an anime or a Japanese game. I recently saw an Onegai Twins bishoujo game, hehe that was quite good (graphic-wise).

I was wondering if there are some nice doujin games for Kanon... I'm supposed to expect that there are gonna be a lot of them, based on Kanon's popularity...

As far as I know, the more popular ones are things like Glove on Fight, Eternal Fighter Zero for the non h stuff. Also, in AirRade (a plane shooter), you play AIR characters, but the first stage is a Ayu on a giant Taiyaki that shoots at you.

[bluemist]

Originally Posted by zalas

As far as I know, the more popular ones are things like Glove on Fight, Eternal Fighter Zero for the non h stuff. Also, in AirRade (a plane shooter), you play AIR characters, but the first stage is a Ayu on a giant Taiyaki that shoots at you.

Wow nice, they even do doujin fighting games...

Bishoujo fighting games (Queen of Hearts, Melty Blood) are quite real fun coz unlike the dating game counterparts (To Heart, Tsukihime), everyone can play them without even knowing Japanese!

[yukari_kiss]

Originally Posted by rayearth

It's really if you are willing to invest enough into it. I wasn't born Japanese, I didn't know Japanese, but I took the trouble to take Japanese in university (my original degree had nothing to do with Japanese, even linguistics as a whole) and I come out 3 years later able to understand most of I need to. If you are serious enough about doing something, you WILL go out of your way to do it, if you don't, well, then yeah, you're stuck with waiting.

From the past 2 replies it seems like my original message was misunderstood. I'm not setting out a "you ungrateful _insert random word_ who just complains bla bla bla" thing that most fansubbers like to throw back at those who complain about the stuff they do. I'm trying to say "instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you when it's most probably never going to happen, why not do it yourself?" Of course, that's given if you're able and willing to "push away" other things in favor to learn Japanese.

As for how much it takes, it's not that much. If you do get your act together and take a real Japanese course. If you take it seriously, you'll be out in 1-2 years knowing all you need. I took it easy and it took 3 years, and just to pull this post a bit back to topic, I was able to play, understand and enjoy Kanon in my 2nd year, so it isn't that hard and it doesn't take that long.

man are you serious??? i've actually learnt jap for two years and it helped, like in some anime sometime i'm like: cool i can understand that! but it's so minimal that i really just can't translate things myself... sorry if i came across as not grateful for the fansubs coz i am and i know how hard it is to translate and how time consuming it is as i translate for a manga group Gomen!!!!!!!! but i've dropped jap now and am doing latin (lol don't ask why i must have been half asleep when i made that decision) and now trying very hard to learn from watching anime......which is not really working but i'm picking up some good phrases my fav one currently is demo janai!!!!

[yukari_kiss]

sorry i went off topic *a bit * with the last post again...ok...about kanon now....i've been to some galleries and the CG arts look so much than the anime, when i first saw the anime, i actually thought: Gosh, they are out of proportion...lol but now i just they're all really adorable but yeah, who here thinks the CG art is much better too?

[rayearth]

Originally Posted by yukari_kiss

man are you serious??? i've actually learnt jap for two years and it helped, like in some anime sometime i'm like: cool i can understand that! but it's so minimal that i really just can't translate things myself... sorry if i came across as not grateful for the fansubs coz i am and i know how hard it is to translate and how time consuming it is as i translate for a manga group Gomen!!!!!!!! but i've dropped jap now and am doing latin (lol don't ask why i must have been half asleep when i made that decision) and now trying very hard to learn from watching anime......which is not really working but i'm picking up some good phrases my fav one currently is demo janai!!!!

A lot of people seem to think if you know 2 langauges, you can automatically translate between the 2. That's not true, knowing a language is one thing, being able to express something in language A with language B is another. It's normal if you can't translate well even if you know Japanese. As for not 2 years not being enough, well, people learn at difference paces, might take longer for some, might take shorter for some, but just to reassure those who are reading this, I am NOT a good learner, so 2 years isn't "fast" - I know people who managed to get to an even higher level than I did in a single year.

As for Kanon doujin games, well, most of the ones I'm aware of have been mentioned already. If you look for doujinshi, now there's a lot more H and non-H. There's also a mountain tall pile of "anthologies" as well, although most of them mix Kanon and AIR together, and I'm pretty sure they'll start putting Clannad in with them soon.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by yukari_kiss

sorry i went off topic *a bit * with the last post again...ok...about kanon now....i've been to some galleries and the CG arts look so much than the anime, when i first saw the anime, i actually thought: Gosh, they are out of proportion...lol but now i just they're all really adorable but yeah, who here thinks the CG art is much better too?

Well, you're right about that, but that's almost always the case. Still images can be tweaked to perfection, but if you put that much effort into pictures in motion, you'd go *way* over budget! It must have been pretty tough for animators to replicate the Key art style, put it into motion, and still have it look cute. And, I certainly do agree... I find the art style totally adorable!

[zalas]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Well, you're right about that, but that's almost always the case. Still images can be tweaked to perfection, but if you put that much effort into pictures in motion, you'd go *way* over budget! It must have been pretty tough for animators to replicate the Key art style, put it into motion, and still have it look cute. And, I certainly do agree... I find the art style totally adorable!

I think the people who found problems with the anime characters probably really didn't like the gigantic chins. It's not a matter of going over budget. The only things you need to trim a game art design into an anime art design are usually things like loss of detail or slightly changed character design to complement the loss of detail. With Kanon's case, it was just that the character designer put in large chins. He could have very well put in normal chins, or done other things as well without affecting the budget that much.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by zalas

I think the people who found problems with the anime characters probably really didn't like the gigantic chins. It's not a matter of going over budget. The only things you need to trim a game art design into an anime art design are usually things like loss of detail or slightly changed character design to complement the loss of detail. With Kanon's case, it was just that the character designer put in large chins. He could have very well put in normal chins, or done other things as well without affecting the budget that much.

Oh, I never even noticed that "gigantic chins" at all! I suppose you're right that something like that was an artistic choice that had nothing to do with budget. I thought yukari_kiss was just comparing the CG art to the Anime art in a generic sense, in which case CG art always can look nicer because of the extra detail, as you say.

[rayearth]

Actually, how characters will look in the Anime depends completely on the person given the job of character designer for the Anime. He can stick fairly close to the original (Lime-iro Senkitan) or he can go with his own style (Kanon). The character designer for Kanon was also responsible for the Shugogetten OVAs, here's the official Shugogetten website:

http://member.toei-anim.co.jp/tv/getten/

Look under the episode summaries to see actual screenshots, don't they look like the art in Kanon?

http://member.toei-anim.co.jp/tv/getten/ova/story8.html

Budget only really comes into the picture in the art depending on how many keyframes they want and whether they want to dump the "in-betweens" to the lowest bidding Korean studio (most TV series do this and is the reason why in some TV series, characters sometimes get "out of model" or look completely different in certain scenes/episodes) or they want to get Japanese animators to do it themselves (most movies do this).

[Maceart]

Back to the games discussion...if Clannad is a big hit, I hope they localize it!

[TronDD]

Originally Posted by Maceart

Back to the games discussion...if Clannad is a big hit, I hope they localize it!

Kanon was a big hit and they haven't localized it, nor any of the other big hits. I don't see why Clannad should be different.

[yukari_kiss]

as we've discussed before, it looks as though learning japanese is the only way to go for now when it comes to wanting to play the games

[TronDD]

If you look in the games forum, seems G-collections is considering bringing KgNE over. Maybe we can convince them to translate Kanon, too.

I finally broke down and picked up a Japanese grammar book and a crappy dictionary. I spent the other night reading the grammar book and got half way through it already. Translating from Japanese to English is actually pretty easy (I was trying to learn Russian previously, Japanese is a cake walk in compairison).

I just need a good Kanji dictionary (or translation software) and just some experiance determining the end of hiragana words and such.

Now I need to find Japanese version games at non-Japanese prices and I'll be set.

[aahhsin]

This anime is one really wierd shit... seen up to ep 5 though..

Forgotten memories, 5 girls, 1 guy that's not mean enough.

He should give that bitch slap he gave to the blond hair chick (motoko?) to like the 4 other chicks that'll be great.

[Mcdonalds]

if you watch it more, you'll understand why he's lost his memories, especially if you do psychology. Otherwise its the best romance or one of them i've seen. For me, this anime was better than kimi ga nozomu eien.

[TronDD]

It's one of my favorite shows and far and away my favorite romance/drama.

And use the search function

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=5911