2008-12-18, 17:24 | Link #61 |
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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I don't think those people are normal, but depending on the actual root cause of their preferences, I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
Part of the point of my previous post was to demonstrate how such a preference could arise from a fairly normal circumstances. As you probably picked up from my previous post, I'm an introvert, but I do have some level of sex drive. In my case, that drive manifests itself in a mild interest in real girls - and a lot of looking at dirty pictures of 2D ones. So to me, it's not inconceivable that someone like me could have their sex drive manifest completely in attraction to the 2D. Now if we're talking an attraction on a deeper level than just sex drive, then I agree that it seems weird for someone to go for a fictional character that can't provide any feedback. However, I'm not familiar enough with this kind of attraction yet to say much about it. |
2008-12-18, 17:40 | Link #62 | |||||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 44
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still, my point remains valid. male libido does go down substantially with age. same for women, at least after the menopause. Quote:
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of course its obvious that they arent the same as a real person - with a conscience, lifelong memories, 3D body, etc. the question is whether for you all those benefits of real people are enough to compensate their shortcomings here, mileage may vary Quote:
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2008-12-18, 17:48 | Link #63 |
思想工作
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 31
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When I watch female characters in anime I always "translate" the looks into "real life," as in, taking out the exaggerations and funky hair colours. Then I decide what looks good and what doesn't. So the difference isn't very much for me.
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2008-12-18, 18:10 | Link #64 | ||||||||||
A blast from the past
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 46
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As for the other studies that prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt, I'd love to see 'em. As I recall, they're always taken at close-cropped intervals of time. So, not much interest, there. Also, funny you should start relying on other's studies or opinions, when you made quite a point of my doing so, earlier... Quote:
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Homosexuality is not normal? Not a regular fixture of everyday life? Wow, we must live in different planets, then.
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2008-12-18, 19:02 | Link #65 | ||||||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 44
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er, its either post-doc or undergraduate.. not both at once. PhD is a graduate degree.
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given that, i'm liberal enough to say that the "problem" actually isnt one, but rather a matter of personal freedom of choice. and, to repeat it again: e.g. homosexuality would already fail at 1) in various countries. being obsessively addicted to e.g. MMORPG games or model railways is a case for 2). various nasty things fall under 3). and lots of things potentially can be 4). Quote:
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http://api-net.jfap.or.jp/siryou/ken...f/C071_S18.pdf http://www.wordpress.tokyotimes.org/?p=914 a personal opinion on the other hand is typically not a very valuable argument, unless you are an expert in the question at hand, with years of experience/professional education. Quote:
as opposed to the what "most economists" say point in the economy thread or what "most psychologists" say point earlier in this thread... Quote:
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2008-12-18, 19:59 | Link #66 | |
Wiggle Your Big Toe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Milwaukee
Age: 32
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Even with that said it still goes the other way. Plenty of people care about others who are facing hardships in their lives more than say a fictional character, real people over fictional, and go out of their way to help these people who are basically complete strangers to them. For instance those who work in organizations that help build houses for families without a home. Do you think they care more about some fictional character or the person they're helping?
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Last edited by GuidoHunter_Toki; 2008-12-18 at 23:12. |
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2008-12-18, 21:21 | Link #67 | |||||||||
A blast from the past
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 46
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"the main difference between surgeons, for example, is not intellectual level or something - it's craft skill. surgery is a handwork. like carpentry or such. except that it also requires good nerves. people with that, good hands, and lots of practice, mostly end up being pretty good at it." "it certainly is not normal *today*. just like homosexuality isnt." "so, put bluntly, for 90% of people its simply impossible to contribute anything here as the level of mathematical understanding required is beyond their ability." Need more? Quote:
Your point here is so jumbled with inaccuracies in the manner of actually defining a "problem" it's not even worth my time, really... Moving on. Quote:
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And you wonder why some people might take offense at your points? It boggles the mind...
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2008-12-18, 21:37 | Link #68 | |
Emotionless White Face
Join Date: Feb 2008
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2008-12-19, 00:35 | Link #69 | ||
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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The entire point of that argument was to show by analogy. You yourself admit that it is common to form an attachment to fictional characters. So apply this to the situation of a single male anime geek: he's deeply attached to some female characters, but he may not have any strong attachments to real women. Hence, it seems to me like it would not be abnormal for him to state an interest in the 2D but not real women. It's my attempt to create a psychological profile for someone who prefers the fictional to the real that doesn't involve an abnormal blurring of fantasy and reality. It does raise the issue of whether anime geeks should try and meet more real women, but that's an entirely different argument. I'd personally argue many of these geeks may have a strong desire for real relationships and are only into 2D girls because it's an easy way to relieve sex drive - which is not the same thing. Do you understand my argument now? Quote:
Last edited by 0utf0xZer0; 2008-12-19 at 00:43. Reason: Edited for clarity. |
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2008-12-19, 05:18 | Link #70 | ||||
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 46
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Behavior like the one exhibited by the feral otaku who were outraged when a female character in a manga was revealed to have had a boyfriend in the past (Nagi, from Kannagi), or by the fangirls of seiyuu Mamoru Miyano when he announced his marriage to his pregnant girlfriend is just all kinds of wrong - and it's exactly the reason I have a problem with some people claiming this kind of behavior to be "normal" and not something to be worried about. Quote:
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And, whenever I claimed this kind of extreme behavior to merit some sort of medical assistance, please be reminded that psychology is something that only works with the (conscious or not) help of the patient. When the interest is not there... so, it can't be something like a mandatory crash-course in reality. If the person doesn't believe to have a problem, it wouldn't work, anyway - so, it's a moot point, really. It' not like one can force someone else into a rehabilitation program and hope for the best - that never really works.
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2008-12-19, 05:55 | Link #71 | |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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2008-12-19, 06:18 | Link #72 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Hmm... Mumitroll, I see you mentioned the Economy 2008 thread here... I have to say I stopped posting there because I realized you were trolling. Don't take that in support of your "theories" here by association. You don't have any support from me, at least. I do appreciate the time you take to write those long posts, but I think you are getting lost in the pleasure of debating instead of keeping it real.
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2008-12-19, 06:59 | Link #73 | ||
Phase Angle
Join Date: Apr 2008
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2008-12-19, 09:08 | Link #75 | |
Wiggle Your Big Toe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Milwaukee
Age: 32
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I did understand your argument, but I wasn't going against your entire argument. I just went after that one part which seemed a little uneeded and seemed, in my opinion, a flaw to your overall point. Just so you know you brought up many great points and so like I said I'm didn't disagree with your overal argument, there was just a few things that nitpicked me.
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2008-12-19, 14:40 | Link #77 | |||||
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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First, I'm not claiming these people are common. What I am saying is that based on the fact that I know a lot of geeks have a minimal drive towards real life relationships, there's probably a small segment of that population who just doesn't have a drive for it period. I personally do have some drive towards real life relationships, but it's low enough that I'm easily able to imagine what it would be like to have no drive - and it doesn't really feel weird to me. Second, there's a lot of research that shows that people are a lot more likely to post information that's less socially acceptable online, so I don't think it's any surprise that you meet more people like this online than off. Third, you're 31, so I have to ask what the age of most of these geeks you observed were. I'm only 21, but I can safely say that I'm more interested in girls now than I was at say, 15. I imagine the phenomenon varies with age. Fourth, a weekly event for my anime club happened to fall on Febuary 14th once. I'm not sure if you have Valentine's Day in Brazil, but it's a big romantic occassion in Canada and the US. We had considerably higher than usual turnout for the event, I don't remember anyone in the club bringing a significant other, and there's like one couple I'm aware of in the entire club. And despite the fact we have a relatively even gender balance, I don't remember any couples forming in the weeks following. Based on that, I think I have some grounds to say that a signficant number of 20-ish year old anime geeks don't exactly pay much attention to the opposite sex. Quote:
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This isn't to say that some of these people don't have dissociative problems, but I doubt that's the case for most. |
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2008-12-19, 16:45 | Link #78 | ||||||||
A blast from the past
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Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 46
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Honestly, most geeks I know are basically addicted to porn - more often than not, because they simply can't get a girl/boyfriend. And not for lack of trying, mostly. Quote:
And yeah, Valentine's Day is a big thing around here. It's celebrated on June 12th, tho. Quote:
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I don't. But I'd need more contact with them to determine such a thing - as I don't want to sound altogether dismissive right off the bat.
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2008-12-19, 17:43 | Link #79 |
Weapon of Mass Discussion
Fansubber
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, USA
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Well, to bring the conversation back to a somewhat more direct level and away from the "Wall of Quotes" effect.
Personally, I prefer real life members of my preferred gender, not because of appearance or personality, but for a reason that hasn't even been mentioned yet. I like real life people because they can surprise me. No matter how sweet, cure, tsundere, complicated, cool, sexy or whatever you like best in an anime person, they never challenge me. Real people are full puzzles and surprises. They challenge me.
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2008-12-19, 18:00 | Link #80 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Same here... I put off my thoughts on the OP's question because I was stewing on how to answer (among other things :P). The OP question was how one's *TASTES* in anime personalities differed from their tastes in real life people. Not necessarily whether one preferred one or the other.
Anime personalities, like any other literary creation, are *sketches* of a real personality. Real personalities are unpredictable and the worst thing for your brain is too much predictability. I will say that real people who exhibit particular traits associated with certain anime archetypes tend to appeal to me. I like small petite women who have personalities much larger than their appearance (what might be called loli-tsundere by some). But in real life, they're much more complicated entities. I also liked that sort *before* I ever picked up the anime hobby. However, I also tend to have a broad spectrum of personality types I like .... about the only type I *don't* like in anime are the submissive servant anime archetypes -- the "let me bring you tea and be your mommy" types. And fortunately, in real life, even people who exhibit that trait tend to be more complex.
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