Shame by the Mainstream

[Newprimus]

Originally Posted by UssoKK

As for my teacher, I don't think she saw/heard the ppl laughing, and she wants me to bring "Grave" now. Aside from me and like other ppl (plus my friends), the whole class is pro-bombing of Japan. But that's another thread

Hehehehe, yes, drown them in their own tears!!!!



*we need an evil smiley*

[aahhsin]

Originally Posted by Shinova

Hehehehe, yes, drown them in their own tears!!!!



*we need an evil smiley*

I seriously doubt that would happen not even a tear. If they are laughing at the bombing of Hiroshima, I don't even know why they are in a AP history class at all. Most people tend to have an opinion about anime even before they start watching anything. They think it's for nerds and geeks. Cool people don't watch anime.

Off Topic :
Face it nobody seriously enjoys history. Many students consider it the most useless of all subjects. The bane of education. The sin of academics. You guys get my drift...

But if you do study history... you will see that the most powerful and well known figures are guess what? history influenced...

Alexander the Great.
Julius Ceaser
Napolean Bonaparte

[kj1980]

While not directly related to the topic, I would like to ask a question:

A. How is the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki generally viewed in the United States (and other nations)? Please refrain from starting an argument of "it was justifiable because...." - I want to know how it is viewed.
B. For those who have watched "Hotaru no Haka" (Grave of the Fireflies), have they opened a new perspective?
C. Would you recommend that anime to someone who hasn't watched it (whether or not they've seen other anime or not)? It is granted, a very powerful and traumatic show - which I agree was a movie that was good, but I would refrain myself from watching the show again as it compells me from eating rice and candy for at least three days (true story) due to depression.
D. As for people who have grandparents or relatives who have fought on the Allied side of the war (moreso on the Pacific War) would you want to show this to them?

[mantidor]

Originally Posted by Shinova

Hehehehe, yes, drown them in their own tears!!!!



*we need an evil smiley*

if they don't cry with grave of the fireflies, i'll go there and FORCE those bastards to cry, by any means, seriously.

Now i haven't watch barefoot gen, but when the embassy of japan made a cycle of anime here, they rated barefoot gen for everyone, while grave of the fireflies was rated kids older than 12, so i supposed grave is more tragic than Barefoot gen. i hope all those idiots to cry their asses off and then apologize to you...



sorry for any grammar or spelling errors,still improving my english


EDIT:

I'm answering you here kj1980!!!

A. How is the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki generally viewed in the United States (and other nations)? Please refrain from starting an argument of "it was justifiable because...." - I want to know how it is viewed.

Here in Colombia every teacher i had told me how horrendous and shameful the bombings were. Unfortunatly the main point of view we see here is that from the united states for obvoius reasons, so for us is just a horrible act, but many sadly see pearl harbor as an even more horrible act.

B. For those who have watched "Hotaru no Haka" (Grave of the Fireflies), have they opened a new perspective?

Thats my favorite movie!, did it open a new perspective?? well, yes and no, i live in a country at war, so im used (and thats something to be ashamed)to see mutilate children due to mines in the news. it didn't show me anything new, but show it in such a beautiful way that i get watery eyes by the mere thought of the movie.

C. Would you recommend that anime to someone who hasn't watched it (whether or not they've seen other anime or not)? It is granted, a very powerful and traumatic show - which I agree was a movie that was good, but I would refrain myself from watching the show again as it compells me from eating rice and candy for at least three days (true story) due to depression.

Of course! i want my mom to see it, but she probably couldn't bear it. My brother needed a movie from the cold war to his history class, but i told him to carry "grave" instead, they saw pearl harbor, and i told him to convince his teacher that they need to see the other point of view, he hasn't been able to talk to her, but i hope he can bring the movie to the class

D. As for people who have grandparents or relatives who have fought on the Allied side of the war (moreso on the Pacific War) would you want to show this to them?

nop, i don't have any relatives who have fought in the war. but of course it would be great to be able to show the movie to them.

[Taboo]

Originally Posted by kj1980

A. How is the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki generally viewed in the United States (and other nations)? Please refrain from starting an argument of "it was justifiable because...." - I want to know how it is viewed.

This may sound terribly odd. Of course, you have those who admit that it was a tragedy but would have supported it and then theres those who say it should never have happened. I think a lot, including myself, just try not to think about it. Not that if you ignore it, it will go away, but it hurts to much to think about it. Its a choice I would never want to make. I spent over 3 years in Germany, and from my perspective, people like to forget about the acts that took place there as well. Of course theres memorials and respect to the victims though. I'm not doing a very good job at explaining. Lets try this instead, I am from Oklahoma and this state is infamous for the acts that were commited against the native americans here. I absolutely hate the history and tragedy of that time, but its my home and I naturally want to defend it. I wish it hadn't happened that way of course, but I am glad that I am able to live here today, where my history and family are. War can be a very complicated thing that involves complicated emotions. It could be that the students laughed because they didn't want to deal with those types of feelings.

Originally Posted by kj1980

B. For those who have watched "Hotaru no Haka" (Grave of the Fireflies), have they opened a new perspective?

I wouldn't say it "opened" the new perspective, but I was glad at the chance to be able to -see- that perspective aka the other side of the story.

Originally Posted by kj1980

C. Would you recommend that anime to someone who hasn't watched it (whether or not they've seen other anime or not)? It is granted, a very powerful and traumatic show - which I agree was a movie that was good, but I would refrain myself from watching the show again as it compells me from eating rice and candy for at least three days (true story) due to depression.

Absolutely! This is one of the first animes I would show to someone, introducing them to anime or an anime fan who just hasn't seen it yet. Its not easy to watch, but its a "must see" in my book.

Originally Posted by kj1980

D. As for people who have grandparents or relatives who have fought on the Allied side of the war (moreso on the Pacific War) would you want to show this to them?

I don't know anyone who actually fought in that war. However, I did show it to someone who is US Army and was involved in Iraqi Freedom. He agreed that it was hard to watch, but was glad he saw it in the end.

I hope that all makes sense.

[SimplyEd]

Originally Posted by kj1980

While not directly related to the topic, I would like to ask a question:

A. How is the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki generally viewed in the United States (and other nations)? Please refrain from starting an argument of "it was justifiable because...." - I want to know how it is viewed.

Well, obviously i can't answer this question directly, since i'm not even a u.s. citizen but you do know that the only thing you will get from this is subjective conclusions from a whole different generation of humans, right? Nobody with a sane state of mind would think of these events as justifiable acts of war or means to achieve peace. My personal view is, that these bombings where some of the most atrocious acts of human history, but then again my country also committed some of the most horrible acts ever and it was punished by being bombed back to stone-age. Every country in the world has a dark stain somewhere in it's history, it's just that some stains are more obvious than others.
We, as a modern generation of people have the chance to learn from our dark past, it's a personal decision to take up this chance. I do feel ashamed of what happened back then and i can relate to the pain that many people even feel nowadays but at the same time i don't know if it is a good thing to constantly live in the past. It is certainly a positive trait to be aware of the failures and wrongdoings of the past but it would be an even better trait to get over the past and work toward a better future.
over and out^^

[jennwenn]

Originally Posted by kj1980

While not directly related to the topic, I would like to ask a question:

A. How is the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki generally viewed in the United States (and other nations)? Please refrain from starting an argument of "it was justifiable because...." - I want to know how it is viewed.
B. For those who have watched "Hotaru no Haka" (Grave of the Fireflies), have they opened a new perspective?
C. Would you recommend that anime to someone who hasn't watched it (whether or not they've seen other anime or not)? It is granted, a very powerful and traumatic show - which I agree was a movie that was good, but I would refrain myself from watching the show again as it compells me from eating rice and candy for at least three days (true story) due to depression.
D. As for people who have grandparents or relatives who have fought on the Allied side of the war (moreso on the Pacific War) would you want to show this to them?

For A and D: Most young Americans know and care very little about WW2. That sounds callous, but history education is weak in this country and many Americans are just ignorant. For a war that happened one or two generations ago, young Americans don't feel a personal connection to the events. Many of their families probably were not even Americans yet, since there was a surge of immigration in the 70s onward so it really wouldn't be "their" war. I would say that I was taught in school that the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings were a necessary tragedy of war, but the emphasis was on the destruction that everyone did and the bombings as a product of the policymakers of that era and not something Americans now bear the guilt for. Most Americans think it was a horrible thing, but they will not associate that act with themselves. So, I don't see a problem in showing Grave to kids whose relatives fought in the war, they will not be offended or feel guilty. (The Vietnam war probably has more impact being only one generation ago.)

I can't really speak for older generations though, their attitude will understandably be different.

Actually, when I was in elementary school we read a children's book from the Japanese perspective on the bombings. I think many American children grew up on "A Thousand Paper Cranes" about a Japanese girl who died of leukemia as a result of radiation poisoning. I don't know if that book was written by a Japanese author and translated or written by a Japanese-American, but it did make it into many American school curriculum. As a child from the Southern US, that was my first introduction to any aspect of Japanese culture and history, even before I learned about the war (or anime for that matter).

B. I still need to see Grave of the Fireflies. I'm waiting for the "right time" to watch this.

C. I wouldn't recomend a depressing film like Grave unless it was the proper moment or I know the audience would be emotionally ready, interested, or should be educated about war and/or anime.

[Joe Dalton]

Well where I live most people view the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a horrible act and dont support it.
Ofcourse I cant speak for other countries.
Also if you want 2 have a general idea of the world 2day you need 2 know about its history. I think its a verry worthwhile subject

[Diedrupo]

you should go kick their asses! stupid high school kids

[kj1980]

Thanks for your views. Here in Japan, many people to this date, even young generations feel a sort of rapport for the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The secondary effects of "death ashes" were once again put into the spotlight in the Fukuryumaru fishing boat incident - where dozens of fishermen on the ship became ill and died of leukimia from radiation sickness as the Americans did atomic bomb testings in the Bikini Atoll (which inspired the movie: "Godzilla"). A good example that one of my university instructors explained was: "Many countries view nuclear weapons as just 'a big destuctive bomb' or 'a cool weapon.' " To us however, we view them as death and a eerie sense of tranquility.

However, I am saddened to report that perhaps the message of peace and remorse for the victims is not getting through to some of the younger people nowadays. Last year, on the anniversary of the Hiroshima bombing, several Japanese university students set afire to dozens of thousand paper-cranes that were on display at the Hiroshima Peace Memorial. Those paper-cranes were made by elementary school children from the city of Hiroshima, but some cold-hearted elitist university students thought it would be funny to set arson to them. Well, idiots exists anywhere in the world, so I guess that's how the world works.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by kj1980

Thanks for your views. Here in Japan, many people to this date, even young generations feel a sort of rapport for the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The secondary effects of "death ashes" were once again put into the spotlight in the Fukuryumaru fishing boat incident - where dozens of fishermen on the ship became ill and died of leukimia from radiation sickness as the Americans did atomic bomb testings in the Bikini Atoll (which inspired the movie: "Godzilla"). A good example that one of my university instructors explained was: "Many countries view nuclear weapons as just 'a big destuctive bomb' or 'a cool weapon.' " To us however, we view them as death and a eerie sense of tranquility.

I'ld like to know the names of these many countries. I think nearly every country is aware of the mass destruction potential and the radioactive pollution such weapons can cause. Countries that own such weapons have the opinion that this is necessary because of peace keeping matters. Imo I cannot say this point of view they have is totally wrong, but it is like fighting the satan (war) with the devil (nuclear threat). As for the atomic bomb testing... I think they are plain wrong. What I am more concerned atm, are the russian atomic submarines that rust in the military ports.

However, I am saddened to report that perhaps the message of peace and remorse for the victims is not getting through to some of the younger people nowadays. Last year, on the anniversary of the Hiroshima bombing, several Japanese university students set afire to dozens of thousand paper-cranes that were on display at the Hiroshima Peace Memorial. Those paper-cranes were made by elementary school children from the city of Hiroshima, but some cold-hearted elitist university students thought it would be funny to set arson to them. Well, idiots exists anywhere in the world, so I guess that's how the world works.

Luckily the message for peace can not be burned that easy.

[ZhouYu]

Originally Posted by kj1980

While not directly related to the topic, I would like to ask a question:

A. How is the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki generally viewed in the United States (and other nations)? Please refrain from starting an argument of "it was justifiable because...." - I want to know how it is viewed.

to alot of people it was necessary because that was the quickest way to end the war and least amount of casualty to the Allied side....

Originally Posted by kj1980

B. For those who have watched "Hotaru no Haka" (Grave of the Fireflies), have they opened a new perspective?

i have the movie but havent watched it yet... kinda scared that imma be in tears...

Originally Posted by kj1980

C. Would you recommend that anime to someone who hasn't watched it (whether or not they've seen other anime or not)? It is granted, a very powerful and traumatic show - which I agree was a movie that was good, but I would refrain myself from watching the show again as it compells me from eating rice and candy for at least three days (true story) due to depression.

I would recommend it to others even though i havent watched it myself... maybe watch it together with some friends

Originally Posted by kj1980

D. As for people who have grandparents or relatives who have fought on the Allied side of the war (moreso on the Pacific War) would you want to show this to them?

my family was still in China/HK when Japan invaded... they still hate Japan...

[Chronissz]

Originally Posted by kj1980

While not directly related to the topic, I would like to ask a question:

A. How is the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki generally viewed in the United States (and other nations)? Please refrain from starting an argument of "it was justifiable because...." - I want to know how it is viewed.

Strictly textbook wise, its very downplayed. I remember it had about 2 paragraphs devoted to it in the entire history book we studied from (highschool history book). However your question is too broad for any one person to provide an accurate answer, and what I am writing now is just one persons opinion based on what I have seen in my lifetime.

What it really depends on is your teachers. If you have by-the-book teachers who dont have a passion for the job, you wont learn much about it, and you will have the ignorant viewpoint most have. However, I was lucky enough to have some excellent teachers in my Highschool years, and I learned more about America's darker side through them.

Like any society, those who pursue the knowledge through college learn the most, but like ZhouYu said, the majority of Americans would answer that it was the only solution to end the war quickly.

[SirCanealot]

What really annoyed me a while ago was Psychology class. We were learning about memory. About how a couple of people had basically had their lifes ruined from their short-term, or long-term memory getting zapped. It was really shocking to me to see what kind of situations these people were in. One person soon after waking up from his acident, put something in his hand, closed it and was amazed and shocked everytime he opened his hand to find something there he'd not remembered putting there. And what does the rest of the class do? Laugh their bloody heads off. Well, at least a few of people did. I really felt like punching them (especially one person, who is insanely stupid and rants on about crap in the middle of class randomly). Sure, if it was a simpsons episode I'd laughing my head off too. But not when we're dealing with real people, damnit. Death is a horrible thing, and suffering like that, perhaps in a way, is worse. I really do feel for you, but that's just how society is. I do think "respect" is one of the most misused words of today, but people really need to learn some. I admit, that's probebly me included, but at least I try.

And since I have jack else better to do (apart from sleep but.... nah).

A. How is the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki generally viewed in the United States (and other nations)? Please refrain from starting an argument of "it was justifiable because...." - I want to know how it is viewed.

Well, it wassn't really covered in the basic history schooling I got before we got the chance to drop subjects we didn't want to continue. I don't really remember much from history, but the bombing wasn't covered much. I've seen documentaries though, and they certainly did not downplay the horror those people went through. Actually, I do vagully remember something about it now. I think some of our textbooks did cover it in a little detail (not that it was taught, I was probebly just reading the text book because it was more fun than doing the work :P). Though Generally I suppose, English are chilled. The past is the past, we don't worry to much on it, not that we'd be expected to. I don't know what others'd think, but I consider it to be one of the most horrible acts in the history of man. But of course, on the flip side, it was justifiable because... I expect most people would see it somewhat like I do.

B. For those who have watched "Hotaru no Haka" (Grave of the Fireflies), have they opened a new perspective?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. It wrote another paragraph in my "why death and suffering sucks" though. And I guess it gave me a new perspective on anime; since I hadn't watched too much anime back then, it showed me how moving it can be, and how little you need action or fighting or soppy romance to tell a story...

C. Would you recommend that anime to someone who hasn't watched it...

I've tried to get my parents on Mononoke before (they still havn't watched it... lazy bums). I'll probebly try and get them to watch it subtitled when I actually grab it on DVD. I'd like to see how they react to it, actually.... *evil smile*

And not much to say on D... about all I know of my family's activitys in WW2 was Nan used to hide under the kitchen table and one of my grandfathers drove trucks around...

[linuxguru]

If you're interested in the closing months of the Pacific War I recommend reading "Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire." Here's one review of it:

Few historical issues have generated as much controversy as the question of whether the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945 was necessary to compel Japan's surrender. No single book can be expected to end such a heated debate, but Frank's masterly study of Japan's decision to surrender comes close to doing so. Based on extensive documentation from contemporary U.S. and Japanese diplomatic and military sources, it is the most authoritative treatment available of the end of the Pacific War. Frank (Guadalcanal: The Definitive Account of the Landmark Campaign) emphasizes the enormous reluctance of Japan's military and civilian leaders even to consider, let alone accept, Allied demands for unconditional surrender prior to the atomic bombings. Skillfully weaving together the strands of military and diplomatic events, Frank contends that absent the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki the war would have continued for at least several more months, at a cost in Japanese and Allied civilian and combatant lives far in excess of the admittedly awful toll that the atomic bombs exacted. A powerful work of history that belongs in all libraries.

[CapnHulk]

Im from Houston. What school was this? You probably shouldnt pay too much attention, if you go around caring about every little thing people think about you, you'll end up with an aneurism or something.