2009-12-28, 22:02 | Link #1861 | |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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As for Hideyoshi - how do we know he was crying about George. This is what we expect to happen because we think George is dead at that time, but when we find out he isn't there becomes no reason for Hideyoshi to cry. For that reason Hideyoshi could not be crying about George in the guest room. Unless he had found out somehow that George died, but we don't know when exactly the six people (including Krauss) died. We know for certain they're dead by midnight of October 5th, according to Bern's red text in the trial, but the time they die is not stated and their bodies are never found. Kinzo's corpse is also weird. Normally they burn it in the boiler room, but Eva said she checked down there and it was said in red that he wasn't there either. Then again I think they only checked the basement, unless it's consider the same thing (I can't recall them ever even mentioning a basement in the mansion) |
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2009-12-28, 22:14 | Link #1863 |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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12:30pm huh? So about 30 minutes before Natsuhi was ordered to go into that closet. Still that makes the idea of George being the caller difficult, since the 'corpses' were discovered by Battler at 7am. Unless two people were making the calls or they were tape recorded. Although in the second instance they would have to record the voice of Krauss as well.
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2009-12-28, 23:10 | Link #1866 | |
Casting a spell on you...
Graphic Designer
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Let me see if I got something here: In Episode 4, we see the ladder with a hatch covering it that leads to Kuwadorian. Now in Ep. 5, Battler is seen messing sort of device (the scene where he thinks he saw Kinzo) (he mentions another part of the epitaph which I can't remember, one of the "gouge" parts), could he have found a way to open that hatch? Also, the path that leads to the gold looks like some kind of subway tunnel, which can be interpreted as a "river" (from the epitaph) since subway tunnels have many arteries, and arteries let blood flow in the bloodstream, which is like a 'river.' And... I lost track of what I was trying to prove. |
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2009-12-29, 00:51 | Link #1868 |
受話器持って魔女・エアトリーチェ
Join Date: Apr 2009
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I think a secret passage would be defined as an exit that violates either commandments 8 and 6. Either the reader isn't told about the passage until they solve "how dunnit" or the detective suddenly runs into a bookshelf, knocking it over and finding a secret door. Either that, or suddenly either his "years of experience" or "his sudden inkling" that a bookshelf should be moved and it reveals a hidden passage or something like that. However, if something else happens, like the detective notices scratch marks all over a wood floor indicating that the bookshelf was once moved this becomes a legitimate passage in that it's identity could be found by an ordinary person. I personally believe that ability to be found defines it as a secret passage and is a flexible rule.
To put it into context, whenever Battler would (I think he did) assume that a passage exists in a closed room scenario that he couldn't find (or could not be found, akin to Unknown Trap X), that would be a direct violation of the 3rd commandment. However, something like the passage to Kuwadorian could be defined as a legitimate passage because the Battler (I'm assuming he's detective in 1-4 and Erika is the detective in 5) finds it at the end of 4. Everyone comes out of it except the people that died in EP4 as they were escaping the cells in Kuwadorian. TL;DR: Intuition is defined as something that either experience or unstimulated thought brings upon. If there are no direct clues, i.e. scratches on the ground, peeling paint, something that would stimulate the idea that the area is movable, then it is solely intuition and is unfair to the reader, violating Knox commandments. However, having clues such as that one would use common sense to deduce that there is a passage, then it is fair game that both the detective and the reader would reach the same conclusion and thus make it fair for the reader. The hatch Kuwadorian clearly looks like a hatch, and looks like it would go somewhere. You can clearly see the ladder that goes down from it from past the bars. Last edited by TTR; 2009-12-29 at 01:33. |
2009-12-29, 01:27 | Link #1869 | |||
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
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And someone kills off the victims sometime before midnight of the second day. Hmm... at one point while Battler was boycotting the game, Virgilia described the Witches Game as 'not having any love'. And Battler himself pointed out that a constant theme in what Beatrice showed him was that 'Without love, it cannot be seen.', referring to the truth of this tale. If the game lacks love, it also lacks truth... Battler realizing that he and Beatrice love one another was what finally opened his eyes to the truth. I wonder if dissecting the mysteries of Episode 5 is really constructive at all. I'm starting to doubt that the events on the game board in this episode are revealing much to us. The core of this game is solving the puzzle of Beato's mind and understanding what it is that she's trying to make Battler see. ... Earlier in this thread there was some mention of the Divine Comedy. Quote:
He let her marry somebody else. |
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2009-12-29, 01:44 | Link #1870 |
Purupurupiko-Man
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: My beloved hometown, the mackerel river running through it
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Finished. I have to admit that this wasn't my favorite, although the second tea party made up for a lot.
I'm also leaning towards Genji for first twilight, if only because we've seen him use knives, but I can't really explain it yet. |
2009-12-29, 02:09 | Link #1871 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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On a related note, since Erika spent the whole night listening to Battler's breathing through the wall and apparently has perfect hearing, she should also have been able to hear the breathing of any other people in the room. She didn't hear anyone else, so maybe we can conclude that the victims had already left the room by the time Battler returned to the guesthouse. Erika didn't have the lounge under observation from 12-1am, so the victims might very well have completely left the building during that period, although hiding in another room on the 2nd floor would work too. |
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2009-12-29, 02:16 | Link #1872 | |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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2009-12-29, 02:20 | Link #1873 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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EDIT: Something I misremembered... Although the cousins could have snuck out of the guesthouse between midnight and 1am, Rosa didn't get back until 1am. So at a minimum, she was confined to the second floor until 3am, although she could have left afterward. |
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2009-12-29, 04:38 | Link #1875 |
Observer
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Unreality
Age: 34
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a small question
how to know which chapter we're reading I see some people says I'm playing the 11 chapter but how can they know that ? thanks! EDIT: Battler says that this is the first time he's speaking to Bern and 34 then the two witches didn't speak to him like we expected on the ???? of legend of the golden but they talked to another person !
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2009-12-29, 08:02 | Link #1876 | |
Who... am I?
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zaragoza, Spain
Age: 32
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2- Battler didn't have a meta-form conscient really, that's why no one sees him. In ep4 he mentions 'he think he had seen them somewhere but couldn't remember' It was a tea party for the witches and till ep5 Battler couldn't get to the higher meta-plane |
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2009-12-29, 08:08 | Link #1877 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
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Bern's red texts only confirm their death, but not including the appearance of their bodies. From an in-universe point of view, Virgilia said that because she did not know Bern or Lambda were going to confirm their death. BTW, that scene was interesting since it was Meta-Virgilia talking piece-Beato, so that it showed that Meta-character could interact with piece-character and enter the piece-world directly. ----------------------------------------------- Erika was an agent sent by Bern to accuse Natsuhi from the beginning. All she did for the whole episode was to eliminate all fantasies and make Natsuhi the only suspect. She would hide all facts or information in order to achieve that goal set by Bern, so even if she did hear Rosa, George, Jessica and Maria's breath after 3am, she would just not tell it, in order to incriminate Natsuhi. SHe was not a detective seeking to find the truth, you know. |
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2009-12-29, 12:14 | Link #1879 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
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I just had my own Theory on what Knox's 5th Commandment is, lol.
Since in the Ep5 Arc, the actual use of the Knox's 5th was not not used. ElderKain's Knox's 5th: The culprit cannot be of supernatural origin. If the above is the case, it was purposely left out becasue if that was know, it would be instant win for Battler, and if that is the case as well, it works well with actual mysteries, like the "Hound of the Baskervilles" story on how it wasn't really a demon hound (supernatural creature) but just some trick from the culprit. or like Scooby Doo Mysteries, lol. If you take my Knox's 5th into consideration, it fits well with the other commandments.
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Last edited by ElderKain; 2009-12-29 at 12:27. |
2009-12-29, 12:43 | Link #1880 |
Knowledge is the solution
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 39
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The Knox commandments can only be used when explaining the crime from the mistery POV. If you are explaining it from a fantasy POV you are not restricted by those and can do whatever you want with your explanation. eg. Beatrice and Gaap create magical secret passages left and right during the whole game.
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