2012-08-23, 19:41 | Link #30141 |
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Yes they started after the epitaph was solved as I recall. Also I don't understand why Genji would tell Yasu about the incident and if he did why would he tell her it was Natsuhi because I think that would just add more unneeded hate.
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2012-08-23, 19:44 | Link #30142 | |
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Before any of the relatives showed up, anyways. Of note, It's Genji who informs that "it's a young man" when he transfers the call, and Natsuhi hears it similarly, though she feels there's room to doubt that going by just the voice. Also of note, Lambda refuses to repeat that that phone call actually happened. The only call we can be very sure about is the one where we get to hear a kidnapped Krauss, since we know he died shortly after that call. Also, she didn't fake his death, she always insists he's alive until they find his body. Weekend at Kinzo's yeah! |
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2012-08-23, 19:56 | Link #30143 |
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So we can sorta assume that only one of the phone calls actually happened and maybe that was the reason Yasu was potrayed as a male also one of the reasons I assume Yasu was masculine because this was the first and only game with a game master who didn't know the truth so most likely Lambdadelta just did it based on her interpretations.
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2012-08-23, 20:13 | Link #30145 | |
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Whoops yeah, that one as well. |
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2012-08-23, 22:30 | Link #30146 | |
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Oops, didn't read.
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Last edited by RandomAvatarFan; 2012-08-23 at 22:52. |
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2012-08-24, 04:21 | Link #30149 |
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I'm still gonna stick with 'Natsuhi didn't knew the gender and because Child calls himself her son, Natsuhi also believed it was Male'. I think Battler is the caller and the motive is to make her admit kinzos death , just as every other adults. Erikas motive is the same as well and thats why she is right about everything because she is reading the script which adults wrote, there was never any murder in Ep5 so 'Detective' is not needed therefore this is why Erika can see both SHannon and Kanon in the same room , because she is also one of the adults group. I believe this is the truth of ep5. I mean why do Adults love the hell out of her in ep5 and hate her in Ep6(when she does not have a script from them, heh)
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2012-08-24, 07:23 | Link #30150 | ||
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Krauss = Pride Natsuhi = Wrath Eva = Greed Hideyoshi = Gluttony Rudolf = Sloth Kyrie = Envy Rosa = Lust I guess this proves that in the end you can see it in multiple ways. The problem is that each person commits several sins, and the opinion about what's the most propinent sin of each person or who better represents a certain sin may vary. Also the concept of sloth is a bit ambiguous and I think Ryuukishi interpreted it in his own particular way. Rudolf has been described as a workaholic, so one would tend to think he's definitely not a sloth, but his ties with Belphegor in the stories and TIPS are as much as strong as the ties between Kyrie and Leviathan. Quote:
I guess that it works better if you also think that Ikuko is Yasu, because else you'd need to explain how come Itoikukuroreigonamu (or however it's spelled) could know so many things about the Mansion and the family, which is heavily implied to be something that an outsider couldn't know. Well I guess you could always theorize that Ikuko retraced all the many fukuin servants that worked there and obtained all those info, but it's a bit a far fetched. You'd also need to imagine that Tohya was chosen for looking like the late Battler, because Ange recognizes him. You can explain that she overlooked the differences because of the age, and maybe wishful thinking, but there should be a limit to that. He can't be that different. The hardest part to explain is how he was made to "remember" all those things. For example at the very end of EP8 he recognizes that the hall of the orphanage looks exactly like the one in the Rokkenjima Mansion before anyone says anything. You need to pull some kind of bogus hypnotsim hocus pocus, which is yet another overused plot device like amnesia. From his perspective. The fact that he recognizes that hall should be an almost certain proof to himself, if he ever had a doubt. To question even that, would mean descending into pure paranoia.
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Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2012-08-24 at 07:43. |
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2012-08-24, 07:43 | Link #30151 | |
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Last edited by tempteste; 2012-08-24 at 08:58. |
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2012-08-24, 07:54 | Link #30152 |
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............So? She assumed it was male because of voice, I can still say this. The child does not deny it because it is not important to him/her what gender she thinks he is.
Same way as Lambda accepting erikas truth as 'THE TRUTH'
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2012-08-24, 08:02 | Link #30153 |
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Lion claiming to be Jessica's brother is very fishy to me. The visual novel systematically avoided any word that could give away Lion's gender. There is a clear will from the author to never mention it.
If the manga says that, I tend to see it more as a slip up, or an arbitrary decision from the manga author, which therefore I refuse to consider canon.
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2012-08-24, 08:05 | Link #30154 |
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I agree with Jan-po, Alto we are talking about EP5 manga here.Natsuhi thinks he is male because she hears male from the phone, she had doubts first but after the child calls himself her son , she also belives it is male. No problem with this right? And Please provide me with raw of that pages, English translations prove nothing to me
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2012-08-24, 08:24 | Link #30155 | |||
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Last edited by tempteste; 2012-08-24 at 08:46. |
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2012-08-24, 09:02 | Link #30156 |
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Ah it's that. Well there's not doubt that the "man from 19 years before" introduces himself as a male.
But if I understand correctly the discussion here is whether if Natsuhi thought the child was male or female right? If we use common sense it really sounds strange that she never asked, even if she didn't want to have anything to do with that baby. But let's assume it's possible for the sake of the discussion. If she didn't know the baby's gender, whether the one claiming to be "it" declared to be female or male would be irrelevant. Natsuhi would simply think "so it was a boy" or "so it was a girl" and adapt to it.
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2012-08-24, 09:17 | Link #30157 | |||
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Plus I don't think it's really far-fetched at all to track down and interview the other Fukuin servants. Hell, that's the first thing just about anybody seriously investigating the incident or message bottle stories would've done, although we hear absolutely nothing about it that I recall. Quote:
Either way, I doubt it's hard to find somebody who resembles Battler. Time will obfuscate the details. I mean, look at 30-year-old Kinzo in ep7 versus his present-day appearance. Would you think of them as the same person? I mean, they might be, but there have been some major changes in appearance. Quote:
So is it implausible to think he could be "primed" to believe he's familiar with the layout of the mansion? If the stories were descriptive enough, if the stories he wrote were descriptive enough, if he'd seen photographs, heard descriptions, been fed whatever details from eyewitnesses Ikuko could dredge up, is it really that hard to at least imagine he could think he's remembering something that he actually isn't? Hell, it could be an educated guess (it's an unusual enough room that you'd think it's something meaningful) that self-confirmation "assures" him about. About the only way he could "prove" he's Battler is if he eventually recalls something that only Battler and Ange could possibly know and which Ange has never told anyone else (as otherwise he could, in theory, have been primed with that info). If the two of them are able to confirm that detail, then either he's Battler or an incredibly lucky guesser. Or, I suppose, meeting a fake Ange who is instructed to confirm anything he says. He can never really be sure... well, I guess he could lie and see if "Ange" corrects him appropriately. You're right that this sounds paranoid, but if you're a shut-in amnesiac being presented fantastical and contradictory murder stories and told you were one of the guys in the story, you might have reason to become paranoid if you start "remembering" being that guy. Is what you're being told true, or are you being driven insane by a crazy woman who can't separate fiction from reality? You're dependent on her physically, emotionally, financially... you're kind of stuck with her. If you have significant gaps in your memory, it's understandable why you might not be sure of her motives. Especially when your current self-identity is constructed solely from what memories you do have. Who is this woman and who is the man she's trying to make you become?
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2012-08-24, 09:23 | Link #30158 | ||
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2012-08-24, 09:32 | Link #30159 |
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Maybe Yasu just chose to show herself as a male just for the fact of how Natsuhi seems to be more intimidated by men I mean if you call someone threatening them and sound like a cute little girl you may not be seen as menacing
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2012-08-24, 09:40 | Link #30160 |
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"How Yasu/Battler/wathever would know that Nasuhi has no idea of which gender child was? They could present themselves as a 'child' and let Natsuhi to decide it herself. But it's a huge risk to state from the first call 'I'm your son'. "
It is a risk, but we can still believe it, The caller is defenetly male, and What about this? Natsuhi said in the narration that she tried to forgot everything , Maybe gender of that child meant nothing for her and just forgot, and when the child says his male Natsuhi would be like 'Oh so it was male, trololol' . As for the raws, I'm looking at them right now , I'll post the translatons EDIT 1) ore mo kaasan no kodomo dakara ne 2) otoko desu ka 3) 10 nen mae o kataru otoko wa... // kitto ano otoko mo... 4) ....hitotsu ue no ani desu, tte na Okay you are right on this , I'll give you that XDD
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