Why is it funny, when the girl beats up the guy??

[RavenHawk]

Originally Posted by Ultenth

I've never understood in any form why people seem to enjoy watching women abuse men, even if with the intent of it being for humor. People abusing other people is wrong, no matter what reason or who is doing it and their sexes. Stuff like Girls Bravo (which I only watched the first episode of) are disgusting to me, who really wants to watch some guy get kneed in the face and get the crap kicked out of him by women? Don't understand the appeal of that at all.

Which is why I don't watch any harem anime. Sure it's fiction, but you sympathize with the guy, and just getting beat up by a bunch of girls is one I cannot tolerate; I feel this guys pain. Don't get me wrong, I love girls; I don't like being harrased. I swear, no one wants me when I'm already in the boiling point.

[Mad Dog]

The simple answer would be:

1. It makes fun of the Male ego. Men like to think of themselves as the stronger sex (which on average they are) and having a girl beat up a guy is to poke a little fun at this. It's just for a laugh that both men and women get.

2. It over emfizises the whole "Hell hath not furry like a woman's scorn" saying. We man all know when a woman gets mad she GETS MAD! And if she's on her period the wrath can be twice as scary. Basically on average a woman just doesn't have the physical strength to beat up a man. So having her beat him up gets a good laugh from everyone.

So simply put its to make fun of the male ego and 2 to over-ephizise a woman's temper.


HOWEVER

In real life this is no laughing matter. There are women out there who abuse their husbands. this should be taken seriously as well as men abusing women.

[Kyero Fox]

Mad dog I could not agree more.. some women who take the "Men cant hit women" bull shit way to far and use it to their advantage .. these kind of women make me sick.

[RavenHawk]

We men should be lucky all the exaggerated beatdowns happen in "ink-and-cels". I agree with Dog and Fox here, to be taken advantage of is resulting to a real beatdown. As a guy I have my rights. Maybe someday I'll share something I read before about "female behavior not tolerated by men".

[Kyero Fox]

if a woman aims for my jewels or is trying to harm me in a very harmful way.. I will fight back... and I won't hold back, as long as she keeps coming I'll keep swinging until either I knock her out or she gives up and says sorry,

I'm no sexist .. but I'll be damned if I'm gonna let a girl beat me up

[BakaOnna]

I don't find it funny at all. In fact, I find it annoying as hell, which is one of the reasons why I despise tsundere. They're in more and more series, and they're becoming more and more annoying. The only tsundere that I actually like is Rin Tohsaka, and that's because she actually didn't beat up the male character up every episode. I like it better when women use witty/caustic words than needless violence for the sake of humor.

And a good example of where the whole tsundere gone horribly wrong is Zero no Tsukaima anime, specifically the 2nd season. Louise is so annoying I don't even know why Saitou bothers with her.

[Veritas]

Originally Posted by Darklord_bg

You should check the definition of misogyny in the dictionary before accusing other people of being such. Here is just one example coming from wikipedia: "Misogyny is hatred or strong prejudice against women". I don't think I expressed any of that with any of my comments. It's OK to have a different opinion than me, it's not OK to make judgments about me based on a simple statement when you do not know me.

Fine. I looked at the wiki article and under Forms of misogyny is thus:

Other forms of misogyny may be less overt. Some misogynists may simply be prejudiced against all women...

Like I said, you don't have to hate women or beat them to be misogynist. Your view that they should be treated differently from men because they're women is misogynistic. It's prejudice, as stated in the wiki article we're citing.

That statement by itself is actually more misogynistic than anything I said, yet I do not want to accuse you of anything.

Good, because the sarcasm seems to have gone over your head.

I agree that harem anime are highly unrealistic. Their purpose might be to cater to a male audience that is comprised of guys who generally do not have pretty hot girls throwing themselves at them. I guess the creators want the guys to identify with the main character, but usually they make him be such a loser that no one can identify with him at all.

Everybody, I mean EVERYBODY ends up hating the guy and feeling sorry for the girls. It's true that girls in such shows are generally pretty retarded to like such losers, but the audience is much more forgiving to those girls than to the loser main character. How can you say that a show that is setup from the get-go so that everyone will hate the guy and like or at least sympathize with the girls is misogynic? Men are always portrayed as the "bad guys" in such shows (and not in a "good" way).

And yet a hot woman ends up with him anyway. Harem anime (and it's doppelgangers bishoujo games and eroge) espouse the tenet "it's okay to be a dim, socially inept, spineless loser with no aspirations, because you will end up with a hot chick anyway" or "you can be an asshole, because these girls around you have the mental capacities of babies, and they just want someone who will hold them and pat them on the head."

Men can be the "bad guys" as you say in these shows, but what does that say about the women who end up falling in love with them?

[JustInn14]

What the h3ll is a Tsundere?!

Anyways, this whole "Misoyncgny" crap probably came from early religious crap in the first place.

I wouldn't woory about it really. THAY'RE JUST ANIME CHARACCCKTERS! Now please qorry about something real, for a change.

[Darklord_bg]

Originally Posted by Veritas

Like I said, you don't have to hate women or beat them to be misogynist. Your view that they should be treated differently from men because they're women is misogynistic. It's prejudice, as stated in the wiki article we're citing.

Okay, I said I was not going to accuse you of anything, but now you are the one who is being prejudiced against me. As I said, you do not even know me, and yet because I said that girls should be treated nicely you are accusing me of being prejudiced against women and consequently - a mysoginist.

Let me make one thing perfectly clear: I never said it is OK to hit a guy. I never said that guys do not deserve to be treated nicely - they do. It's just that one punch from a man to a woman will do a lot more damage than one punch from a woman to a man. Women's bodies are generally more fragile then men's. Men are generally physically stronger than women. This is not prejudice! This is a scientific fact!

So yeah, I do think that when it comes to physical punishment, women should be treated differently than men. It's not because I believe women are inferior or because I'm prejudiced against them. It's because they are physically weaker, as I've stated earlier (in the general case).

Heck, have you ever seen a guy open a door for a lady? What about a guy who offers his umbrella to a lady and not to a guy who doesn't have one in the rain. Is this guy also prejudiced against women for treating women differently than men?

Also, I don't see what's wrong with treating people differently. I treat my parents differently than I treat my friends. I treat the elderly differently than I treat the kids. Are you going to say I'm prejudiced against people of different age? It's OK to treat people differently - as long as you treat them with RESPECT!

I try to treat you with respect as well! That's why I think that you have just misunderstood me rather than you actually believe that I am prejudiced against women.

Originally Posted by Veritas

Good, because the sarcasm seems to have gone over your head.

So, just because it was sarcasm it is OK to say something like that. Yeah, I know you were being sarcastic, but some people might find comments like these offensive.

Originally Posted by Veritas

And yet a hot woman ends up with him anyway. Harem anime (and it's doppelgangers bishoujo games and eroge) espouse the tenet "it's okay to be a dim, socially inept, spineless loser with no aspirations, because you will end up with a hot chick anyway" or "you can be an asshole, because these girls around you have the mental capacities of babies, and they just want someone who will hold them and pat them on the head."

Harem anime may try to enforce this belief "it's OK to be a loser...and so on", but seriously - does anybody buy that? Do you think any intelligent guy with common sense will actually believe that crap - that women will throw themselves at him even if he acts like a loser? If that's really what harem anime producers think, then they are insulting the intelligence of its male viewers - which is the majority.

Originally Posted by Veritas

Men can be the "bad guys" as you say in these shows, but what does that say about the women who end up falling in love with them?

So, tell me what does it say about those women? I assume that you're going to answer: "That type of women are pretty stupid" or some variation of it. That may be your view, which is OK, but it is not the view of the general public. Check any harem anime thread and see the opinions about the characters. There are some negative comments about the stupidity of the heroines, but generally - they are liked. The male lead is the character who always gets most of the hate - not the girls who fall in love with him.

[Matrim]

Heck, have you ever seen a guy open a door for a lady? What about a guy who offers his umbrella to a lady and not to a guy who doesn't have one in the rain. Is this guy also prejudiced against women for treating women differently than men?

Well, yes, at least accorfing to quite a few femminists.

So, tell me what does it say about those women? I assume that you're going to answer: "That type of women are pretty stupid" or some variation of it. That may be your view, which is OK, but it is not the view of the general public. Check any harem anime thread and see the opinions about the characters. There are some negative comments about the stupidity of the heroines, but generally - they are liked.

Shocking, considering 98% of the viewers are male and the popularity contest between the characters is basically between the main character, a.k.a. Mr "I have no personality" and the girls. Plus, it's a well-known genre convention, the people who don't like the stupidity of the female characters liking the loser won't bother to watch the show to begin with.

Harem anime may try to enforce this belief "it's OK to be a loser...and so on", but seriously - does anybody buy that?

Since harem anime sells well, chances are at least part of the target audience buys it (pun intended ).

[aldw]

Having anime centering around Gals with guys or Guys with gals in itself isn't so problematic, but the overly pointless violence in stuff like the Love Hina anime gets to the point that it would be better to throw the remote control through the TV set. Also, wrt Tsundere, verbal Tsundere like Rin are so much more preferable than violent Tsundere like Louise or anime Naru, the former has witty repartee elements in it, while the latter is nothing more than uncivilized barbarism.

[Darklord_bg]

Originally Posted by Matrim

Well, yes, at least accorfing to quite a few femminists.

OK, I know there are different degrees of feminism, some of which more radical than others, and I can see that some people might hold that kind of view. That does not mean I have to agree with them. I have been taught to be courteous to women. If a woman tells me she is not OK with such a treatment, then I will treat her like a guy. I just don't think that a guy should be labeled as "misogynist" for being nice to women just because some feminists believe so.

Originally Posted by Matrim

Shocking, considering 98% of the viewers are male and the popularity contest between the characters is basically between the main character, a.k.a. Mr "I have no personality" and the girls. Plus, it's a well-known genre convention, the people who don't like the stupidity of the female characters liking the loser won't bother to watch the show to begin with.

That's why I say that harem anime are more offensive to men than women - because the only male characters in them are Mr. "I have no personality" and his useless comic relief sidekick. Such characters are not good representatives of our gender. I must admit regretfully that there are such guys in the world, but they are a minority if anything.

Originally Posted by Matrim

Since harem anime sells well, chances are at least part of the target audience buys it (pun intended ).

Well, some guys may buy it, even though it seems ridiculous to me, but I think the main reason why harem anime is so popular is because guys love seeing hot girls and trashing the useless male characters. I guess some guys do not need strong male characters in the shows they watch. I do!

[Ichihara Asako]

A little bit of violence never hurt anybody!

I can find it amusing, in small doses... A playful smack around the ear or something is a non-issue. But it can be pretty extreme in some cases, such as Love Hina. I just don't see the point. But then I'm not bothered by it either. I don't find it funny, but it doesn't disturb me... it's just anime.

There are some cases of extreme violence, such as the end of School Days, that I thought was absolutely excellent, and a perfect conclusion to the story. The gore in Higurashi wasn't upsetting to me either... because it's animated. What's to stress over. It's not like they're snuff videos.

[JustInn14]

It's not like they're snuff videos.

WHich is sometyhing that certain religious groups and soccor moms', Nascar dads', and 4channers/ ED-ers' forget!

[Js2756]

Originally Posted by Ichihara Asako

A little bit of violence never hurt anybody!

Anyone else notice the delicious irony of this statement?

[kyoji-kun]

its funny because guys has more tendency to act and look funny than most anime girls. their change in speech and expression is more entertaining especially when the girls gives them a good beating or a nutcracker!

watching violence is funny but being violated is not funny! XD

[aldw]

Originally Posted by Ichihara Asako

A little bit of violence never hurt anybody!

I can find it amusing, in small doses... A playful smack around the ear or something is a non-issue. But it can be pretty extreme in some cases, such as Love Hina. I just don't see the point. But then I'm not bothered by it either. I don't find it funny, but it doesn't disturb me... it's just anime.

There are some cases of extreme violence, such as the end of School Days, that I thought was absolutely excellent, and a perfect conclusion to the story. The gore in Higurashi wasn't upsetting to me either... because it's animated. What's to stress over. It's not like they're snuff videos.

It's not simply the presentation itself being animated that is problematic, but also the concept behind it that makes it troublesome, the closer it gets to something that can occur in reality (and some really gruesome stuff does happen so) the greater the cause for concern.

[Veritas]

Originally Posted by Darklord_bg

Okay, I said I was not going to accuse you of anything, but now you are the one who is being prejudiced against me. As I said, you do not even know me, and yet because I said that girls should be treated nicely you are accusing me of being prejudiced against women and consequently - a mysoginist.

Let me make one thing perfectly clear: I never said it is OK to hit a guy. I never said that guys do not deserve to be treated nicely - they do. It's just that one punch from a man to a woman will do a lot more damage than one punch from a woman to a man. Women's bodies are generally more fragile then men's. Men are generally physically stronger than women. This is not prejudice! This is a scientific fact!

So yeah, I do think that when it comes to physical punishment, women should be treated differently than men. It's not because I believe women are inferior or because I'm prejudiced against them. It's because they are physically weaker, as I've stated earlier (in the general case).

Your generalizations are perfectly valid, however this post implies that it's somehow emasculating for a man to show that he was hurt by a woman hitting him. I also really think that the opinion that a man shouldn't say he was hurt (physically or emotionally) by a woman because it makes him seem "weak" is part of a huge problem of men taking little or no action when they are the victims of domestic abuse.

I doubt any reasonably rational person would label you a mysogynist, at least by the most common definition. I'm trying to point out the much more subtle types of discrimination that go on for generations because no one points it out. I'm sorry if I vilified you; it wasn't my intention. I have a short fuse for too many things especially when something seems obvious to me.

Heck, have you ever seen a guy open a door for a lady? What about a guy who offers his umbrella to a lady and not to a guy who doesn't have one in the rain. Is this guy also prejudiced against women for treating women differently than men?

Also, I don't see what's wrong with treating people differently. I treat my parents differently than I treat my friends. I treat the elderly differently than I treat the kids. Are you going to say I'm prejudiced against people of different age? It's OK to treat people differently - as long as you treat them with RESPECT!

I try to treat you with respect as well! That's why I think that you have just misunderstood me rather than you actually believe that I am prejudiced against women.

I hold doors open for men and women, young and old. I think everyone should be treated equally, regardless of gender or any other factor they have no control over. I don't think men are less deserving of courtesy because they're men, nor do I think women should be handled with kid gloves because they're women.

So, just because it was sarcasm it is OK to say something like that. Yeah, I know you were being sarcastic, but some people might find comments like these offensive.

Just like some people might find harem anime degrading and offensive.

Harem anime may try to enforce this belief "it's OK to be a loser...and so on", but seriously - does anybody buy that? Do you think any intelligent guy with common sense will actually believe that crap - that women will throw themselves at him even if he acts like a loser? If that's really what harem anime producers think, then they are insulting the intelligence of its male viewers - which is the majority.

So, tell me what does it say about those women? I assume that you're going to answer: "That type of women are pretty stupid" or some variation of it. That may be your view, which is OK, but it is not the view of the general public. Check any harem anime thread and see the opinions about the characters. There are some negative comments about the stupidity of the heroines, but generally - they are liked. The male lead is the character who always gets most of the hate - not the girls who fall in love with him.

I don't want to say the general public buys it figuratively, but given the success of harems and eroge are churned out and bought literally, I'd wager they'd at least like to hear it.

[Ichihara Asako]

Originally Posted by aldw

It's not simply the presentation itself being animated that is problematic, but also the concept behind it that makes it troublesome, the closer it gets to something that can occur in reality (and some really gruesome stuff does happen so) the greater the cause for concern.

The same can be said for any violent story. Whether it's a live action series, movie, or animated. Of course, being animated gives the production more leniency to do crazy stuff that isn't 'acceptable' in live action mediums, which I suppose is why they do it.

Doesn't stop horror movies from being made, though. See all sorts of crazy shit on the big screen coming out of hollywood, and people (generally) don't protest over it, because they're all restricted (18+) rated, so only mature people can watch them.

The same goes for anime, to an extent. Most of the series with 'improper' violence tend to be late night shows, not primetime, and the DVDs will generally be mature (15+) rated, though Japan uses different ratings systems to the English speaking world. When they rate something 15+ it'd usually be 18+ to most English countries. They're not as prudish in general.

The simple fact of the matter, just like you can make a choice to watch something like Saw (for a recent horror movie franchise example) or not, you can choose not to watch anime that has content you don't approve of. Though with fansubs that's not always easy since you may not know... but that's what you get for illegally viewing series that are unrated in your country, and for not researching a series before getting it. Can't really complain about that. =p

Honestly though, there isn't a lot of it. While violent tsundere types do seem a little more common now, it still doesn't make up the majority of anime. People seem to be exaggerating the 'problem' too much. But that's typical of folk who overreact to stuff like this.

[Ultenth]

Honestly, since it's just like a movie etc. I don't mind the violence for its own sake. I just get frustrated and bored watching any anime where the guy is a complete wuss and allows women all over the place completely beat the crap out of him for stupid little reasons. I wouldn't want to watch an anime where a guy did that to the girls on the cast either, but I guess it just kinda drives me crazy to see a guy act like that, makes me want to smack them around too and tell them to grow some balls. And if you're not willing to defend yourself and allow women to attack you in ways that should put you in the hospital, at least grow a brain and avoid the situations by not being around those people or not acting in a way that gets your ass kicked.

I think the absurdness of it all is a major factor in why I find it annoying, and not funny. I'd much rather have the writers actually put in some effort into their humor, instead of using absurd, forced, cliche'd scenarios in order to try to illicit a laugh. I feel the same way about Seto no Hanayome though, in terms of the lack of imagination involved with the humor.