Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by idofgrahf

Hence he won because of Exia's desginers is what you are saying, I don't see what that has to do with Setstuna's skills. What I am saying is if Sergei had a beam saber and an equalivlant MS to the Exia, he most likely would have won. Hence Setsuna is not a great pilot when he has a much superior suit and still allow an enemy lend a hit in. Amuro at the start of MS Gundam is no Ace, he manged Char based soley on his superior MS at first, later he got much better. However, given that Amuro was a civilian its forgivable, Setsuna was suppose to be a pro like Heero, yet unlike Heero he demonstrates no competency in a fair dual IE both side using same spec MS and fight it out.

Now who told you Setsuna was suppose to be a pro like Heero? Did you just make that up? This is what I'm talking about...You let one surface characteristic dictate how you examine a character in a different show, era, circumstance? The series has shown nothing to validate your claims he should have been a "whatever" like Heero, so the basis of your claim starts from an imaginary base...But please continue cause your not the only one to make 100 dollar claims from 5 dollar source material...Other than the perception, Heero and Setsuna are really nothing alike and to judge Setsuna's pro-status from Heero's efforts in an entirely different set of circumstances in a different universe does nothing to help your arguments on this aspect...

Bottomline, let his piloting skills develop (and simply be presented) a little more before we go off the deep end with stuff like "He supposed to be a pro on Heero's level" ...All we know is that he was a kid with an AK fighting for a conman...Nothing else has been shown about him to validate your comparison to Heero interms of his "pro" status, sheeesh...

[JediNight]

The Gundam Meisters were never claimed to be the best pilots (so far), all we know is that they were chosen by Veda for reasons as yet unknown.

Is Setsuna largely riding on the overpowered nature of the Gundam so far? Yes.

Will we get more insight in the future as to why these individuals were chosen? I'd like to think so.

[Dean_the_Young]

On a different note, and because I'm in a bit of a hurry at the moment, can anyone tell me what the japanese words Tieria said after showing the Naadleh? Translated, it was "I am... I am... I am...", but the japanese words had gender connotations.

[JediNight]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

On a different note, and because I'm in a bit of a hurry at the moment, can anyone tell me what the japanese words Tieria said after showing the Naadleh? Translated, it was "I am... I am... I am...", but the japanese words had gender connotations.

It's been touched on before, and I haven't watched the Conclave release to see if they address it in a note, but basically:

Tieria says "Ore wa... Boku wa.... Watashi wa..." which are the varying levels of politeness in the "I" pronoun. "Ore" is very masculine, "Boku" is semi-polite masculine or used by boys, and "Watashi" is gender neutral/standard female use of "I"

Basically symbolism for his breaking down of the super masculine facade to go with the Nadleeh(female) breaking out of the super masculine Virtue. Whether Tieria is actually a girl or just has extreme gender issues is up in the air of course.

[LightningZERO]

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Hmm....I'm not going to argue with you about this. However, have you ever think about how the boss complain or blame his employment when they didn't do their job perfectly?

But she's not her employer

Anyway, I like Alenjandro's (or whatever his name is) comment better. "I will only watch them, even they're heading towards destruction..", just scream badass to me!

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by LightningZERO

But she's not her employer

Ah well....but isn't she's the one who is sponsor for CB?

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Ah well....but isn't she's the one who is sponsor for CB?

No she isn't. Scheinberg is the only sponsor of CB; everyone else is His agent.

[idofgrahf]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Now who told you Setsuna was suppose to be a pro like Heero? Did you just make that up? This is what I'm talking about...You let one surface characteristic dictate how you examine a character in a different show, era, circumstance? The series has shown nothing to validate your claims he should have been a "whatever" like Heero, so the basis of your claim starts from an imaginary base...But please continue cause your not the only one to make 100 dollar claims from 5 dollar source material...Other than the perception, Heero and Setsuna are really nothing alike and to judge Setsuna's pro-status from Heero's efforts in an entirely different set of circumstances in a different universe does nothing to help your arguments on this aspect...

Bottomline, let his piloting skills develop (and simply be presented) a little more before we go off the deep end with stuff like "He supposed to be a pro on Heero's level" ...All we know is that he was a kid with an AK fighting for a conman...Nothing else has been shown about him to validate your comparison to Heero interms of his "pro" status, sheeesh...

So what you are saying is simply that CB, a pera miliatary orginization, with its ability to develop highly advanced MS and fanical backing would send unskilled pilots to run around with the most advanced MS in the world, that makes a lot of sense. It's hard to argue that they lack skill when CB's own side, I think its Wang Liu Me complains with some dejection that the miesters are lacking. That said, I do seem to remember that Setsuna having combat experience, ie fighting and serviing okay as a child soldier. I use Heero simply because the two situation of AC and AD is very similar, if it helps you I'll use Amuro. Wether you like it or not, we live in a world runned mostly by logic and logic dictates that advance military hardware, unless under extrodionary circumstances, are given to the best of the best. Do you think the USAF let baboons fly the F-22 Raptor, or incompetent captains to command Nitmiz class Carriers? What makes you think a orginzation such as CB, that let many of the decisions be made via a super computer would not follow a logical train of thought? Hence, if Satsuna can be assumed to be trained to be a professional.

[wingdarkness]

@ idofgrahf - Listen you're the one who is projecting and forcing a connection with Heero for comparison...That's your deal not mine...You're shaping a debate based on a minuscule perception and trying to bash Setsuna because of it...But I'll engage you however flawed your entire argument is...

Here we go...

That said, I do seem to remember that Setsuna having combat experience, ie fighting and serviing okay as a child soldier.

So the children in the middle-east who are rebelling against America in dirt-street militias with AK's on their backs give you the impression they could be Gundam aces based on that experience? That's what Setsuna was basically, so I guess that's a resume for professionalism like Heero right?

Do you think the USAF let baboons fly the F-22 Raptor, or incompetent captains to command Nitmiz class Carriers? What makes you think a orginzation such as CB, that let many of the decisions be made via a super computer would not follow a logical train of thought? Hence, if Satsuna can be assumed to be trained to be a professional.

But we're not in the USAF, genius...We're in the world of Gundam where teenage boys who have white flashes over their heads, or have SEED bursts in their eye-sockets, or can control machinery via psychic pressure can hop in a Mobile Suit and pwn stuff...THAT makes me think that an organization like CB could and would (BASED ON THE HISTORY OF GUNDAM) have pilots picked based on auxiliary factors not quite consistent with logical thought....What you thought a 13 year old boy named Usso needs to join the air force before they let him launch?? You still think Amuro needed to sign up for Rx-78 piloting classes after he stalemated Char on newtype instinct? Think Judua gives a damn about your loggy McLogic when he's going from piloting junkcars to DOUBLE ZETA in one foul swoop (Even customizing the design)...You think Dullindal picked Shinn over Rey because of his class scores?

Some things have to be taken with a grain of salt dude, and even in series where the teenager is not specially powered there isn't a strict explanation each time for why he's good? Nor even a spec of tangible training shown to the viewer at times...Loran becomes an ace simply from reading the freakin' leftover manual...Garroad had a newtype in the passenger seat with him when he started...

That's why I was telling you to wait and see a little more on how their piloting abilities are presented before we jump threw flaming-hoops with Bibles preaching to the sinners that a pilot sucks because somebody got a lick on him in episode 2 ...Sure it can be assumed that Setsuna has got SOME training, but to what extent we just don't know yet, nor do we know if the pilots have some sort of other-worldly abilities which are consistent with pilots in Gundam (00 has been very shrewed with this aspect showing power-up scenes but not letting us know what the scenes fully mean)...Then you wanna patchwork a comparison on professionalism between pilots based on basically nothing but conjecture and subjectivity because you think he should be a pro like Heero (Who in your mind Setsuna clearly is)...It doesn't work...

Wether you like it or not, we live in a world runned mostly by logic and logic dictates that advance military hardware, unless under extrodionary circumstances, are given to the best of the best.

QFT, but the bad part is that you said this in a Gundam forum (You know where if you use overt logic that dictates bull$hit technology you sound kinda silly, especially when you say that with conviction knowing the cool looking character with the Main Gundam will always win regardless of technicality)...Yeah, keep using that logic ...

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Kira's pretty normal to me. He never enjoyed killing, so I don't see where you get the idea of a monster from.

He didn't because he had Lacus and a few dedicated friends to ground him at. But he broke down plenty after Seed and if nobody helped him, who knows what type of a timebomb he could've become?

[Jeffry2009]

This is very weird when tieria Says 'i am 3 ways' in japanese....

Ore wa..... Boku wa..... Watashi wa.......

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by jafri

This is very weird when tieria Says 'i am 3 ways' in japanese....

Ore wa..... Boku wa..... Watashi wa.......

Washi wa... Watakushi ga.... Wagahai wa...

[Child_of_Sierra]

Originally Posted by JediNight

The Gundam Meisters were never claimed to be the best pilots (so far), all we know is that they were chosen by Veda for reasons as yet unknown.

Is Setsuna largely riding on the overpowered nature of the Gundam so far? Yes.

Will we get more insight in the future as to why these individuals were chosen? I'd like to think so.

I agree and I believe this lack of skill to pilot the Gundams to be a major theme in the series.


The 4 Meisters may not rank among the best pilots in the history of Gundam shows but I do believe they had proper military training (and piloting of MS) before CB made its first declaration.

However, even if it was via the choice of a supercomputer, we have to realize that a persons "willingness" to fight for CB had to be a major factor in recruitment. There may have been thousands of better pilots out there but the pool of talents Veda had to sift through was probably limited to those it considered "amiable" to CB's philosphy. ie they had to believe the rather idealistic view that a few people can change the flow of world events by force of arms (how many people would enlist to that?, who actually have any MS skills?)

Thinking this way, I find it logical that the Meisters only really win their battles (when fighting without following an overall strategy by Sumeragi) due to their Gundams. Graham, Sergie, Ali and even those unnamed members of Choubu (probably) hail from the best ranked MS pilots each territory has to offer (we're talking dozens of countries each so maybe at least 100,000 candidates) so they would also, naturally, be able to counter the Gundams even when piloting inferior mechs.

[Tangerine]

2006-2007---> Kira (Death note) and Lelouch (Code geass)
2007-2008---> Gundam meisters (00)

All main characters... villains? >_<

[Funkatron]

Originally Posted by Child_of_Sierra

I agree and I believe this lack of skill to pilot the Gundams to be a major theme in the series.


The 4 Meisters may not rank among the best pilots in the history of Gundam shows but I do believe they had proper military training (and piloting of MS) before CB made its first declaration.

However, even if it was via the choice of a supercomputer, we have to realize that a persons "willingness" to fight for CB had to be a major factor in recruitment. There may have been thousands of better pilots out there but the pool of talents Veda had to sift through was probably limited to those it considered "amiable" to CB's philosphy. ie they had to believe the rather idealistic view that a few people can change the flow of world events by force of arms (how many people would enlist to that?, who actually have any MS skills?)

Thinking this way, I find it logical that the Meisters only really win their battles (when fighting without following an overall strategy by Sumeragi) due to their Gundams. Graham, Sergie, Ali and even those unnamed members of Choubu (probably) hail from the best ranked MS pilots each territory has to offer (we're talking dozens of countries each so maybe at least 100,000 candidates) so they would also, naturally, be able to counter the Gundams even when piloting inferior mechs.

That makes sense. Think about it: at least three of the pilots have reason to hate war: Setsuna was a child soldier, Lockon is a victim of terrorism and Al was experimented on by the HRL military. We still don't know about Tiera, though. Other than him, the other three have perfectly good reasons to hate War and join CB

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Funkatron

That makes sense. Think about it: at least three of the pilots have reason to hate war: Setsuna was a child soldier, Lockon is a victim of terrorism and Al was experimented on by the HRL military. We still don't know about Tiera, though. Other than him, the other three have perfectly good reasons to hate War and join CB

As far as Tieria is concerned, there is good circumstantial evidence that may suggest he had been raised in CB's space-colony. If that's the case, then he doesn't need to be recruited; he was born into the role.

Now, obviously there is the issue that Tieria may be at least partially cybernetic, or has mental links with Veda. But we will see where that goes.

[Jeffry2009]

Originally Posted by Tangerine

2006-2007---> Kira (Death note) and Lelouch (Code geass)
2007-2008---> Gundam meisters (00)

All main characters... villains? >_<

huh? i don't know. just ask them...

Main characters Justice ala Daredevil?

[Ichimaru]

I wish the author doesnt change the character affiliations of the CBs, if they are going to be bad, let them be bad, and dont make one of them switch sides when they find out they are in the wrong...

should introduced a guy from earth to correct these clowns, and put the CBs in their seat overthere....Grahm is the one, the ace who i think after all his analyst with katagari will build a superior unit....

[_X12A_Testament]

I hope that sometime soon one of the other alliances gets access to GN drive data and builds their own versions of a Gundam. Similar to their respective MS type but with the gundam accents we recognize.

Also to add more excitement to the series, it would be cool if VEDA decides to replace a meister and that one revolts against that decision by stealing his gundam and joining another side. It is just too simplistic for me right now in this regard and it feels like gundam sentai.

[idofgrahf]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

@ idofgrahf - Listen you're the one who is projecting and forcing a connection with Heero for comparison...That's your deal not mine...You're shaping a debate based on a minuscule perception and trying to bash Setsuna because of it...But I'll engage you however flawed your entire argument is...

Here we go...


So the children in the middle-east who are rebelling against America in dirt-street militias with AK's on their backs give you the impression they could be Gundam aces based on that experience? That's what Setsuna was basically, so I guess that's a resume for professionalism like Heero right?

you obvisouly did not even watch ep 8 did you? I distenticly remmeber that it was the Azadistan that Setsuna was fighting against and that is why he hates the Azadistan, for waging war against the Kurdish Republic. Take you anti-american propoganda elseware, this is a Gundam disscussison board.

But we're not in the USAF, genius...We're in the world of Gundam where teenage boys who have white flashes over their heads, or have SEED bursts in their eye-sockets, or can control machinery via psychic pressure can hop in a Mobile Suit and pwn stuff...THAT makes me think that an organization like CB could and would (BASED ON THE HISTORY OF GUNDAM) have pilots picked based on auxiliary factors not quite consistent with logical thought....What you thought a 13 year old boy named Usso needs to join the air force before they let him launch?? You still think Amuro needed to sign up for Rx-78 piloting classes after he stalemated Char on newtype instinct? Think Judua gives a damn about your loggy McLogic when he's going from piloting junkcars to DOUBLE ZETA in one foul swoop (Even customizing the design)...You think Dullindal picked Shinn over Rey because of his class scores?

I seem to remmeber that Veda the super computer picked them, what does computer run on again? do enlighten me. oh thats right, 0 and 1's in other words, logic.

Some things have to be taken with a grain of salt dude, and even in series where the teenager is not specially powered there isn't a strict explanation each time for why he's good? Nor even a spec of tangible training shown to the viewer at times...Loran becomes an ace simply from reading the freakin' leftover manual...Garroad had a newtype in the passenger seat with him when he started...

I don't seem to remmeber that Loran was ranked up there with Amuro and I have never claimed Loran to be an Ace pilot, the Turn A is simply insanely powerful, but then again, Turn A gundam is more about character than gundam fights.

That's why I was telling you to wait and see a little more on how their piloting abilities are presented before we jump threw flaming-hoops with Bibles preaching to the sinners that a pilot sucks because somebody got a lick on him in episode 2 ...Sure it can be assumed that Setsuna has got SOME training, but to what extent we just don't know yet, nor do we know if the pilots have some sort of other-worldly abilities which are consistent with pilots in Gundam (00 has been very shrewed with this aspect showing power-up scenes but not letting us know what the scenes fully mean)...Then you wanna patchwork a comparison on professionalism between pilots based on basically nothing but conjecture and subjectivity because you think he should be a pro like Heero (Who in your mind Setsuna clearly is)...It doesn't work...

That is why I usually add "so far" in my sentences, hence SO FAR Setsuna, or most of the pilots for that matter demonstrates they are average at best in piloting.

QFT, but the bad part is that you said this in a Gundam forum (You know where if you use overt logic that dictates bull$hit technology you sound kinda silly, especially when you say that with conviction knowing the cool looking character with the Main Gundam will always win regardless of technicality)...Yeah, keep using that logic ...

I do remmeber that most of UC tech is based on real life theory with the exception of NT technologies. Orbital elevators is unrealistic but not impossible, fusion reactors found in UC we are resarching right now, the L points really do exist, the colonies in UC are based on the O'Neill cylenders purposed by the person of said name in real life. US military and Chinese for that matter are resarching engery weapons I don't see how some of the techs are bull or impossible.

As for Gundam Main character, unless you count getting brain fried (Kamille) as winning, Char getting pwned by Haman at the end of Zeta or getting killed (Char and Amuro at the end of CCA) as winning, sure Kamille stopped Scrioco but the war continued, just not against the Titans. I don't see how it is that you win by either being brain fried, or killed or plain out losing like Char vs Haman.