2012-10-04, 08:54 | Link #45 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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I'm going to have to say this: War WAS heroic and civilized before the appearance of the industrialized war. That was the fundamental reason for the deep difference between the officers and the rank-and-file soldiers of the early Japanese army.
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2012-10-04, 09:51 | Link #46 | |
Master of Coin
Join Date: Mar 2008
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In pre-industrial area, we also had massacres, mass rape, genocide etc. Try reading some of the Christian crusaders marching on the holy land, Roman conquests, Chinese emperor's mass extermination of enemy tribes etc. It is the advent of guns and truly brutal murder on a industrial scale when people finally realized "holy crap we are gonna wipe out mankind if we keep doing this" And the Japanese was pretty barbaric all around, many of them thought it was honorable to grant their enemies a quick death (I.E execution of Chinese/American prisoners) or honorable for Chinese/Korean women to be their camp whores. Except the rest of the world didn't quite share that death "warrior" culture. |
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2012-10-04, 13:42 | Link #47 | |
Battoru!
Join Date: Sep 2012
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However, WW2 was actually the third time that Japan had invaded Korea. It happened first around 600 AD, and neither side of the conflict really had the ability to do any damage to the other side. However, the second time Japan invaded, in 1592, was much, much, worse than either the first time or the third time (Which is saying something because WW2 was pretty bad). After the 7 year conflict, over half a million Koreans were dead and 95% of Korea's material history was destroyed. After the war ended, the Japanese brought back the noses of 50,000 Koreans and made a small hill out of them, which they buried. This monument, known as the Mimizuka (literally ear mound or ear tomb, along the way I guess someone forgot the noses were ears) can still be visited today. So if you want to read about the most brutal, horrible, depressing and atrocious war ever, read about this invasion know in Korean as the Imjin War and in English is usually referred to as Hideyoshi's Invasions of Korea. |
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2012-10-04, 17:49 | Link #48 | |
Master of Coin
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Whoever believed sword/ax combat was honorable or civilized must never actually studied history. |
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2012-10-04, 19:02 | Link #50 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Australia
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2012-10-04, 22:23 | Link #51 | |
Master of Coin
Join Date: Mar 2008
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2012-10-05, 02:38 | Link #53 | |
Battoru!
Join Date: Sep 2012
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However, it is popularly called the first invasion of Korea (by some, I didn't invent this term) because of the myth of Empress Jingu who was said to have invaded Korea during her lifetime. In reality, even though Empress Jingu was a real person, it would have been physically impossible for her to be involved in the Baekje Silla conflict around 660 AD, which was 400 years after she was said to have reigned. However, it is the mythical association of these two events which has led people to call this event the first Japanese Invasion of Korea. |
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2012-10-06, 14:49 | Link #55 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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2012-10-07, 18:21 | Link #56 | |
Battoru!
Join Date: Sep 2012
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This is because during the period of extreme popular nationalism in the early 1900's (before Japan invaded Korea for the second time) groups like the Kokuryukai and the Genyosha were using a wide spectrum of means to encourage the expansion of the Japanese Empire. On the one end, this meant intimidation of government and outright assassination (this is the period of government by assassination in Japan) but on the other end it meant assisting the already extant proliferation of nationalistic historical writing to make the case that there was not only a historical precedent for Japan invading Korea and China but that, in fact, Japan had a historical duty to do so. Of course their main argument was that Japan had to wipe away the shame of Hideyoshi's defeat after he invaded in 1592. But it was also a tactic of these pre-war historians to conflate the Mythical Invasion of Empress Jingu with Japan's actual involvement in Korea in the mid 5th century. It is certainly inaccurate to call Japan's involvement in Baekje an invasion, or to conflate this event with the "Invasion of Empress Jingu" myth: but you have to remember that the writers of the Nihon Shoki were most likely inspired by these events (which occurred only 60 years before) when they wrote about the mythical Invasion of Empress Jingu. This undoubtedly aided the pre-war Imperial historians in making their connection. The more important point, that's been implied by what I've said about the Genyosha and the Kokuryukai already, is that these historians were motivated much less by authentic desire to write honestly about Japans history than by their desire to encourage Japanese invasion of Korea and China. Thus, it can only be guessed at to what extent they honestly believed in what they were writing about. Military zeal goes hand in hand with both delusion and deceptiveness so it's hard to say which one is really at play here. Anyways, this is maybe a confusing explanation and I can't really offer you much in the way of sources. I learned most of this in school ( I'm an East Asian and African History Major) either from hard sources out of the library or from JSTOR. Maybe if you are able to get on JSTOR I could pull up a good JSTOR link for you. |
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2012-10-09, 00:30 | Link #58 | |
✘˵╹◡╹˶✘
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
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And yeah let's talk about sword, or try to put them in context. I thought with only swords, without shield and over-belief on bushido, Japanese medieval army will be steamrolled by pretty much any other countries? Especially with Sun Tzu's Art of War, emphasize on high ground for superior range combat?
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2012-10-09, 13:28 | Link #59 |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
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I don't know why you think swords were the main weapon, because all the Western lolhistory shows that says so are wrong.
Spears were. And in range, bows/tanegashima rifles. Like everyone else. Oh, and btw, we had the some of the biggest longbows in the world. Yes, bigger than the English longbows. Thankfully we had bamboos, which are light, sturdy, and very flexible. Don't believe everything you learn from videogames and ninja movies.
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