2010-12-24, 04:57 | Link #7461 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Anyone can tell there's still a relationship going; the meaning of farewell sometimes isn't just an end but circumstantial where feelings are still lingering. In my view volume 25 end chapter follows this situation. Rather trying to be suborn, about the matter, you should notice that interpretation can vary to each person base on an earlier post I wrote however the basis of interpretation shouldn't be use as a fact when something as vague as body language ( at least when it isn’t as detail enough, yes hayate looks the same in most situation) Hinagiku (Hina-tan) can keep fighting because she has a chance but a very slim one atm. Yet there is nothing wrong with her to keep trying, since I enjoy characters with love interest trying their best to win. What I'm looking for is how Hayate feel because the voices and feeling of the girls (Hayate Harem) are irreverent in the end decision. Not that it doesn't mean I don't support their action. Atm I'm more or less trying to find post where people are in agreement with your accusation. First is with regards to chapter 301 about Hayate affection regarding body language (although using interpretation isn’t reasoning for facts, it’s an opinion). Second would be this one regarding the events after volume 25 that Hayate doesn't love Athena more. I would be more willing to accept if you stated it as an opinion but otherwise what your trying to do is turning an opinion into a fact is where we have a disagreement. Last edited by Nemuru; 2010-12-24 at 09:33. |
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2010-12-24, 09:29 | Link #7462 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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So much shipping talk for two chapters that have no meaningful shipping content at all.
Its not as if anything has changed since Golden Week ended, it's just a historical re-enactment of great wars in shipping history. Quote:
I'm also hoping Hina drags Ayumu back with her because it just seems wrong to leave her out of the whole thing. Seriously though, with all the (probable) fanservice and slapstick this set-up calls for this is precisely the worst time to be looking for meaningful shipping hints. |
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2010-12-24, 14:20 | Link #7463 | |
*boot to the head*
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Hinagiku is acting completely differently to a confession of words for Athena, than when she (falsely) thought Hayate was dating Ayumu. There's lots of story going on in the character's actions that you can't just ignore. Nagi even said so after destroying the stone in the Golden Week arcs. You can't trust words to give you the true picture. Hayate is not showing the level of affection his words are describing for Athena since his confession. @madmac: This isn't a new discussion, it's just been kicked up again with the reemergence of Athena in the last few chapters.
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2010-12-24, 15:00 | Link #7464 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Lol, in the end we're just going to resort to insults and say the other person is ignoring or cherry picking their examples and response.
Like you’re “reading too much from nothing” Still my main objective is still a disagreement with your response and Quote:
The next few chapters will shed more light on this topic, however I would like to say that I agree with many people here that there hasn't been anything worthy in the past recent chapters to solidify a response that Hayate likes xx more maybe we(me and you) can leave it as such since that was my original intention from the beginning even if I will object to your earlier statement that Hayate show affection towards Hinagiku regarding the latest 2 chapters available. While, it is widely accepted by the many poster in this sub-forum that not much is happening. However if you’re still persistent I have nothing more to say. P.S merry xmas from Australia (25/12/2010) here |
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2010-12-24, 23:51 | Link #7466 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Not to say that Hata-sensei is not skilled in regards to drawing and all, but why does body language HAVE to apply to manga?
To me, it's more superfluous and less exact particularly because while those characters can appear, act, and feel real, note that body language is something we do unconsciously at times, but is almost always deliberate in manga. I dunno, I just think that trying to argue on the basis of body language here is a null point. |
2010-12-25, 13:12 | Link #7467 | |
*boot to the head*
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Are we forgetting that at the very start of the story, Nagi misinterpreted Hayate's words to her as a confession when he was actually thinking of kidnapping her. And then in the later chapter of the Golden Week arc she actually said that words can't be trusted to convey actual feelings? Whether that means that Nagi might actually come to some sort of conclusion that Hayate wasn't confessing to her has yet to come up again. Hayate pretty clearly hasn't backed up his confession for Athena by his actions. I've spent 18+ years learning the body language of people, and found a lot of commonalities. It's also pretty easy to read once you learn the cues. @ All, sorry about my earlier post, finally pushed to my breaking point and I ended up snapping at you guys. Would have rathered have snapped at the one who helped get there but telling me that body language means nothing didn't help anything, it's a pet-peeve of mine, read one of my sig quotes here. Late December is also a bad time to push my buttons also, as I tend to hate the christmas season for what society has turned it into -_-
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Last edited by Bastion_Arcion; 2010-12-25 at 14:06. |
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2010-12-25, 13:48 | Link #7468 |
Osana-Najimi Shipper
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mt. Ordeals
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Meh, body language in page 5 of chapter 300 says it all for me. I am NOT at all scared for my ship when it comes to body language, no siree. XD
Nah, what scares me the most right now is Athena giving the ring back, as it symbolizes Hayate's heart (while the ring case symbolizes his body, which btw is both 'owned' by nagi, no coincidence there). In other words, it would mean that his heart is his own again if you think of it symbolically. That said, I still have great faith that it will all work out in the end (I mean, think of the ramifications that after all this, Hayate gives the ring back!). Either that, or Athena will kick the bucket (the foreshadowing is there if it's true, I'm not gonna lie) and all this is to make Hayate move on properly. In other words, it's as I said last time... any girl to be the winner of Hayate's heart must go through Athena first (ie. the 'big boss'), and this arc could very well be the setup to that. Glad to see Athena take 2nd spot though, considering how little she actually has appeared in comparison to other characters. Gogogogo A-tan! ^_^
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2010-12-25, 15:16 | Link #7469 | ||
*ignoring*
Join Date: Aug 2009
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2nd: I believe we all know from experiences that both words and actions (or body language) can create misunderstands. When Hayate touched Nagi's bottom, it did not mean he wanted to get intimate with her contrast to Nagi's belief. Nagi misunderstood Hayate's statement "I want you to go out with me (to kidnap you)." Quote:
Because you believe in the texts "I want you to go out with me (to kidnap you in his thoughts)" that Hayate stated, which was different from Nagi's thought (in words/texts) about being a couple. You believe that their words hold true to themselves and their intentions were different through their words to come to your conclusion that they had a misunderstanding. Nagi stated that words can cause misunderstandings. Why do you use that statement if you don't believe in the texts?. The reason Nagi and Hayate misunderstood one another was because they didn't explicitly stated their thoughts. There won't be a misunderstand if Hayate said out loud "I want you to go out with me because I love you or because I want to kidnap you." In Athena's case, Hayate clearly said he loves Athena to Hina out loud, which was something Hina didn't misunderstand. |
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2010-12-25, 15:50 | Link #7470 | ||||
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She's reading the actions as more intimate than the are intended. In both cases, he's reacting and happens to grab her inappropriately (he doesn't really have much of a choice, she has a small form), he's done similarly to the other young women as well. Putting his arms around Hinagiku, while they were in costumes (under Nagi's directions no less), and accidentally triggering her berserk button. Quote:
In English, the word used was 'love'. Using only the Greek language, there's four different words that are correctly translated into English as 'love'. And that's only in one language, and not even the original language. He never makes clear which word he's using from an English-speaker's perspective, and even explicitly states before he says them that he's not sure which one should be used. In this case, I'm implying that the ones who are doing the misreading are the fans who say that Hayate's true love is Athena.
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2010-12-25, 18:34 | Link #7473 | |||
*ignoring*
Join Date: Aug 2009
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I agreed with Nagi that words can cause misunderstanding (action and behaviors as well), but it depends on how they are used. As readers, we know when misunderstanding are made by the characters through words of their true feelings/thoughts, even though it wasn't their intentions. Quote:
-When Hina said she's in love with Hayate (in texts), she did not lie. -When Hayate stated that he tried to kidnap Nagi (in texts), he didn't not lie. -When Nagi said she wants to be with Hayate forever, she did not lie. -When Ayumi said she likes Hayate, she did not lie. -Why should we (the vast majority who believe Hayate romantically loved Athena) think it was misinterpreted when Hayate said he loves Athena (which he never said to any other girl)? Quote:
I don't really know what you mean by "true love" because I never once said or thought about it. I just argued that Hayate DOES loved Athena romantically, in which you denied, as an viewer and other shippers agreed as well, not just Athena's fans. I'm pretty sure you told me Hayate loves Athena as a mentor a few days ago. Last edited by zodanhko; 2010-12-25 at 19:11. |
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2010-12-26, 17:33 | Link #7474 | |
*boot to the head*
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*sigh* zod, you may now claim the distinction of forcing me to change my sig..
And I'm about to scan this thread (the only place we've talked for the last few days) for the third time to try and find where you're getting that 'quote' from about my only reading the subtext. I think I might know where you're getting the message from, but the statement clearly says that I didn't get anything additional from the English text that I hadn't already pulled from the body language. You do also have a habit of reading a statement exactly how you want to, sometimes over the top of me spending quite a bit of time trying to make sure the wording can't be read in that manner. Quote:
Did Luke not have some affection for Obi-Wan and Yoda? I know there are more examples of student-mentor relationships, including cross-gender ones, but my brain refuses to spit them out right now >.< Spoiler:
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2010-12-26, 18:54 | Link #7475 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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So enough teasing, On balance we could argue the meaning of true love or even affection in general (something I rather not). But I can accept your view that Hayate's true love might not be Athena from Hayate's perspective (debatable) however Athena is the only girl which Hayate has confessed to and shown physical/romantic interest. From one(many) person view that is enough to indicate 'love' considering that Hayate has yet to show that side to others or simply a response that he doesn't hold others in such high esteem base on material events or at least I don't believe anyone can challenge Athena current status while Nagi is debateable although their relationship looks more like a brother and sister type. I will have some peace of mind and put this entire discuss behind when Hayate action are steered by physical attraction towards A-tan (currently a loli ) or others. A-tan Quote Quote:
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2010-12-26, 19:04 | Link #7476 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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2010-12-26, 19:05 | Link #7477 | |
*boot to the head*
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He also seems to hold Hinagiku's relationship to him as somewhat equal to his relationship with Nagi, so there's potential for romance there.. he just thinks she's always angry with him for various reasons.
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2010-12-26, 19:13 | Link #7478 | ||||
*ignoring*
Join Date: Aug 2009
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I was trying to say Hayate loves Athena as a girl, while you think he loves her as his mentor. I supposed there's nothing wrong in assuming Hina loves Hayate as her brother and Nagi loves him as her butler/father if one can assume Hayate loves Athena as his mentor. |
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2010-12-26, 19:37 | Link #7479 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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It's a recurrent theme with Ayumu, really, Hayate expresses interest but offers various excuses as to why he's just too busy/poor ect to take her up on the offer. Ayumu consistently interprets this as meaning "he won't look at her" and on balance, she's probably correct. Hayate isn't disinterested in her, but he's not willing to make her his number one priority either, and thus they're at a stalemate. In 239, Hayate puts Hina and Ayumu side by side, which strikes me as probably correct in the sense that Hayate would happily go out with either of them if it was convenient for him, but he hasn't shown enough interest to really work for it. Of course, feelings evolve over time, and we're yet to see the full impact of Athena essentially freeing Hayate from his past/allowing him to move on. He's made no attempt to contact her since leaving Athens (And has apparently given the whole thing very little thought until Yozora jostled his memory.) and it would be extremely premature to expect Hayate to go running after her ago just because she's popped back into his life. |
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2010-12-26, 19:41 | Link #7480 | ||
*boot to the head*
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Still waiting to hear the part about me only reading the subtext though. Quote:
He even talks about respecting Kotetsu's traits as a butler, but he needs prompting, possibly even significant prompting, to even mention things about Athena. And it's actually made a pun about which word is used to describe the type of love Hinagiku feels for him, which is the romantic style.
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comedy, shounen |
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