2011-09-26, 20:03 | Link #1181 |
I'm here for the reason..
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Because in every tournament arc, the protagonist not just become more powerful, but also aims to please the people he or she loved, such as friends, family, and even lovers. By studying each of deficiency and advantages the opponents have, the protagonist's ability more and more steadily, and one step ahead. Who knows if he or she can make new friends.
And coupled with the conflict in which protagonist experiencing trauma. Traumatized by the defeat that he or she had experienced before. But over time, he or she managed to defeat the fear he experienced. If shonen manga can do like I said before, even the sports can do it too. Vivid so far more concerned sheer enjoyment than the personal conflicts of each character. To test their abilities through the tournament, it doesn't matter anyway. But more important is the mental capabilities and intelligence in dealing with any difficulties that exist. That requirement is even more important if you want to become stronger.
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2011-09-26, 20:16 | Link #1182 |
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Still, all the Vivid characters' motivations boil down to "I want to win."
That's all fine and well but it is comparatively shallow. I'll use Moshidora again: not only did they want to get to Koshien, they wanted to go for the sake of an ill close friend Spoiler:
Vivid is fine, but it could be a lot better with some added depth.
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2011-09-26, 20:46 | Link #1183 |
I'm here for the reason..
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In essence, every tournament arc has a more important goal, besides simply being the strongest. Some wanted to continue the struggle waged by the seniors, some are like happy people who are dear. In addition, the main character can also learn from rivals who could be inspired to become better than before.
Perhaps the example that you point out is good. I can also give other examples. For example, Naruto in Chuunin Exam Arc. He was not just become stronger, but also wants to find its identity as a true Konoha shinobi. In addition, he can also get a new friend, although it should be through a fierce fight. The other characters, too, each one has its own conflicts, such as the conflict between the relatives as Neji and Hinata, friendship as Sakura and Ino, and also Gaara, who consider himself as living weapon. And that's what enriches the story itself. If their training in Carnaaji just add a little mental training and intelligence, may be further enrich their capabilities, in addition to cutting water training.
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2011-09-26, 20:58 | Link #1185 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Einhart wants to fulfill the dream of her long deceased ancestor. Vivio wants to prove everyone that she can get good at strike arts despite the fact she's not really suited for it. Einhart is changing and slowly opening for others. There is the issue of sleeping Ixpellia that was obviously mentioned for a reason. We are slowly getting to know what exactly happened during the times of Sankt Kaiser. Etc. Sure, it's a very basic plot. But saying it's not a real plot because there is no real danger is stupid. There is no real danger in Force either. Who cares if some unnamed people we never knew are dying? Who cares if some villains we know for one chapter are killed? Nobody important will die. Signum, Hayate, Vita and Erio are a proof of that. I don't care if people I don't care about die. There is no real tension or danger of death because we all know Tsuzuki will never kill any of the popular characters. Just because there is some blood doesn't mean that fights in force are suddenly more serious and interesting. Audience must care about the dead person for death to have any impact at all. That's why I don't understand why battles in Vivid are suddenly less interesting because "they are not for real". No matter if it's Vivid or Force in the end characters will end up in hospital in the worst case scenario anyways. |
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2011-09-26, 21:06 | Link #1186 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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To be honest, all of the newcomers kinda have the vibe like they would be really upset about outright losing. Llike Fate during the A's comic versus Chrono, just without anything at stake really, other than... I don't know, being afraid of having their feelings hurt? Afraid Vivio won't pay as much attention to them if they do? IDK.
On a side note, I still have no definite conclusion on the reliability of the MCA traducciones en espaņol para ViViD, but if I read it right, Sieg and company decide that they should not go to see Micaiah this year after she lost to Miura. Which I'm sure probably has a reasonable thread behind that, but still comes off as just dismissive. I can't say it's really the attitude of a warrior. But eh, I seriously doubt that we'll never see Micaiah again. She'll just have to wait for a while probably. |
2011-09-26, 21:13 | Link #1187 | ||
I'm here for the reason..
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Probably due to increasing its character, its quality decreases.
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2011-09-26, 21:20 | Link #1188 | |
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Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
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2011-09-26, 21:21 | Link #1189 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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See, this is why I'm so glad that I read Planetes. No main character died, and yet we got to see how the world at large was forced into social, political, and economic upheaval and change. There was danger all the same, and it was handled maturely. Among love between space garbage collectors, and a hot shot pilot reconciling with her son.
Not all stakes have death waiting at the end. But hey, that's why I have zero interest in describing genres and comics with vast strokes. I'd sooner recognize differences than similarities, kthxbye. Quote:
That said? One of the reasons why I absolutely love Game of Honor with Samuel L. Mother****ing Jackson and the Friday Night Lights movie is that while losing is /not/ a happy hour for either team, they can, and do hold their heads high with a measure of pride. They did absolutely everything they could, and lost to a superior team that did the same. They've got zero reason to be ashamed. Of course, it's hard to apply the same lesson to series like Negima or ViViD or Prince of Tennis with their SUPER BEST AT EVERYTHING AWESOME BEAUTIFUL MAX OUT HERITAGE INCREDIBLE (DID YOU HEAR ME BEFORE) ULTRA BESTEST characters who can make the efforts of others look, well, absolutely pitiful. But them's the cards. Last edited by Kuze; 2011-09-26 at 21:31. |
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2011-09-26, 21:52 | Link #1190 | ||
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A character loses a match in Vivid, it's no big deal, they can just try again next time no problem. Section 6 loses to the Huckebein, that means there's a gang of dangerous criminals roaming free that could take even more lives and continue to be a threat that could undermine the Bureau as a whole. Plus the failure calls Section 6's abilities into question and so on. You can clearly see which has more weight. In the Chuunin exams, failure could have potentially meant death.
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2011-09-26, 21:56 | Link #1191 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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And then no-one important actually saw the consequences of that statement at all. I don't even think anyone died from stuff in the exams, just outside interference from the villains. Anything can potentially happen. Potentially, Nanoha could have gotten more than superficially wounded in that last fight, but that was also demonstrably a false threat.
Last edited by Justin_Brett; 2011-09-26 at 22:13. |
2011-09-26, 22:22 | Link #1192 |
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It's just a matter of having something on the line. Like, say, if Seiglinde really does have some health problems and soon she'll be too sick to do anything so this'll be her last tournament and she wants to go out on top. That would be something you could get really invested in.
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2011-09-26, 23:42 | Link #1194 | |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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It's easier to enjoy and accept ViVid because so far the plot didn't make any big pretentions, the downside is that we can't feel any real conflict but the upside is that we aren't forced to expect some contrived plot either and thus we're able to accept the manga for what it is.
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2011-09-27, 07:25 | Link #1196 | |||
Adeptus Animus
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Age: 36
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Compare that to, say, Aria. A manga devoid of any fighting, with the biggest danger being falling of your gondola and getting wet. Yet, even in such an action-less manga, there's still a form of progression. Why? Because the main character has a clear goal which she (and in turn the story) focuses on. Yes, she has lots of fun adventures, but the red line remains constantly present, and you see the main character grow closer towards her goal as a result. Vivid lacks this focus. It's not something that'll doom this manga right here, right now, and it's something that's easily fixed, but it is something that makes some people wonder where it is. Quote:
In Vivid though? The characters do this for the fun of it. They don't even expect to make it far themselves. Unlike other sports manga, where the characters drip with motivation to be the best, odds be damned. |
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2011-09-27, 07:57 | Link #1197 | |
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And looks like Corona is beating the crap out of Einhart, who then has a flashback to Claus & Olive days, which means Einhart will suddenly find the strength to win, most likely. Standard shonen thing. I have to say, though, the power levels on this are all over the map. |
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2011-09-27, 09:19 | Link #1200 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Maybe I need to clarify this a bit, I'm not saying that Vivid's plot is good (it's not) but it's definitely not worse that Force's plot.
Both series fail horribly went it comes to plot, but at least Vivid managed to make me care about the new cast. It's obvious Vivid is supposed to be a series focused on characters, and it's doing a fine job with it's characters. Force on the other hand is supposed to be a plot focused series. The problem is this plot is incredibly cliche and uninteresting. It's just another boy meets girl story with cliche as hell villains and popular characters forced into the mix to improve sales. The big battle with Huckebeins played exactly as I expected, and was executed much worse that I hoped. Touma and Lily are horribly boring characters. Especially Touma who has DARK and SAD past, is suddenly best friends with all popular characters and became uber powerful for no reason other than because he's the MC. Huckebeins are boring and overpowered too. What is Vivid supposed to be? A magical SoL manga with some fighting and fanservice. And it's exactly that. What is Force supposed to be? A serious and plot heavy story with a dark tone. And it fails horribly at being what it's supposed to be. |
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