Do new anime fans watch older shows?

[Verso Sciolto]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

I'm sure I answered those because I'm once again confronting my ever-expanding anime list. Whether that is on-topic or not is up to everyone.

This I agree, though.
If they do become interested in older anime, newer anime fans are doing this for entirely different reasons than older fans.

You did. I didn't check yesterday, so don't know which series you've since added, but today there appears to be one more to bump the list to 38. Not off-topic, as far as I'm concerned...

[Reckoner]

Recency bias in entertainment is alive and well in pretty much any fandom. Music, movies, etc.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think with LNs, some older anime fans well-remember the days of Haruhi and Shana and the Monogatari Series. Then they compare those older classic LN adaptations to more recent ones, and well... Re:Zero is thankfully an exception to this, but it'll probably take more than Re:Zero alone to change common anime fan perceptions of modern LNs.

Sorry RRR, but what in the world are you talking about? LN's past and present (like most things in entertainment) are largely hot garbage that is marketed based on nice cover illustrations. There's been so much garbage over the years, let's not cherry pick some nice titles and act like that's representative of the era.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Sheba

@ Obelisk
To be fair to today's hentai, nowadays pr0n movies also goes straight to the act. The makers figured out that people want to get on with the lewd rather than padding. Then you have the NTR subgenre...

I know. I just want to stress that it’s a different experience than what we have in today’s hentai. Heck, recently if people just want to see the sex, there are cg hentai clips of characters just straight up doing it without the need of establishing stories or characters. 90s hentai that put more effort into their narratives and characters are likely won’t be made again today.

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Trust me, I'm not missing much. Just look at the shortlist you mentioned: Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop, Fist of the North Star, SDF Macross, Macross 7, Berserk (handdrawn 2D), B’t X, You're Under Arrest, Rurouni Kenshin, Patlabor, Karasu Tengu Kabuto, Cyber Formula, City Hunter. Bolded are shows I've watched, italicized are shows that I know enough.

I'm also not a fan of certain genres either, like super robots and sci-fi, although I do have my exposure to it—I've watched Voltes V, Daimos and Combattler V for super robots, and Bubblegum Crisis, Saber Marionette, Casshern Sins for sci-fi. I just don't immediately add them to my list when I see one. (I personally prefer urban fantasy nowadays, blame Index.)

Out of the 13 titles that you quoted, you’ve watched 5 titles and “know” 2 titles (which doesn’t count in my book until you experienced it). So I’d say from my short sample that you responded to, in terms of missing out, you’re still 50-50 (even counting the genre that you’re not a fan of). Just sayin’ though. Not telling you what to watch. And yes, finish that damn Gintama!

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Many of those series are sci-fi or have sci-fi components. Serious science-fiction seems a non-starter in today's anime world presumably because the tastes of the (Japanese) audience have changed. Production committees are simply responding to changes in demand. For a good contrast, look at the treatment of quantum physics in Noein (2006). That was hardly scientifically-accurate, but it was a lot closer to theory than the absurd version of quantum mechanics presented in the most recent episode of Demi-chan.

Yeah. That’s why I said watching those aforementioned shows will provide newer fans with different experience compared to many shows airing today.

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I'd be curious where the Sakura and Chobits screen shots came from. Are they from remasters of the originals? According to ANN, the most recent North American release of Chobits is simply a collection of the original DVDs. CCS was remastered for a Blu-ray release in 2014. I'd argue this difference has more to do with the clarity of those images than the age of the series. For a good explanation of why older series on DVD can look crappy today, see this column by Justin Sevakis: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answ...-03-13/.113237

The previous Chobits images are from from the Chobits: Anime Classics Complete Series BD release:

I heard that Chobits BD is upconverted from the SD-master because there’s simply no better master for it. It’s not only Chobits. There are many other titles from early 2000s that have the same issue of quality-lacking masters because they rely too much on lackluster digital masters at the time. Note that shows like Gundam SEED was also from early 2000s (back when TV aspect ratio is still 4:3) and to release the Blu-ray version of SEED, Sunrise/Bandai pretty much had to pull (almost) all the stops to overhaul the old SEED footage that was done digitally and dig down deeper into the master. But early digital masters being (for lack of better word) crappy as it was, Sunrise was forced to scavenge new footage they made for the movie compilation and even redraw a number of scenes & sequences from scratch because the digital master was simply not acceptable for BD-quality release.

Images

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Sunrise/Bandai could afford to do this kind of remaster work for their 50-episode series because they’re freakin’ rich. Other anime from early 00s like Chobits, Aria, Shana, FMP, etc aren’t so lucky. But even with Sundai’s wealth, they couldn’t really dump a budget to redraw all the footage in SEED for a mere remastering project coz that would be like making a brand new Gundam series. So they left some unimportant scenes as is in its digital blurry glory like this one:

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Also, it’s not only about clarity. The early digital craze of 2000s era somehow also made animators “lazy” as you can see in the thicker outlines in Chobits compared to CCS in my previous comparison. Another example of their “lazyness” is that many animators started to make bangs/fringe transparent which makes the eyebrow visible behind the bangs. Today, some animators got even lazier with the realism to the point that they made glasses frame invisible or disappears to make the eye more visible *ugh*. Anyway, to illustrates how crisp and vibrant some “old anime” compared to early 00s anime, I’m gonna compare the BD images of Yu Yu Hakusho (standard shounen of the time) with BD images of early 00s anime like Higurashi & Shana.

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MANY LARGE screenshots of Yu Yu Hakusho

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MANY LARGE screenshots of Higurashi & Shana

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YYH has more well-defined shadows, brilliant colors & tone and excellent line details much like CCS. On the other hand, the images in Higurashi is soft and blurry almost like someone rub a vaseline on the figurative camera. Lines aren’t well-defined and colors aren’t as vibrant making it looks flatter compared to 90s anime like YYH. Shana's images look a bit better but still have similar issues as Higurashi.

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Nobody is suggesting it's a good idea to pull into the garbage and dust off some obscure old anime. The idea is to pick proper niche anime and give it a chance.

Yep. Each year and decade has its own shit. Before watching old shows, do some research first to filter the goods from the bads and check the ones that interest you the most.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Yep. Each year and decade has its own shit. Before watching old shows, do some research first to filter the goods from the bads and check the ones that interest you the most.

To be fair though, there's plenty of shows that no one would seriously consider "classic" but might fall into "worth checking out" if you're looking for something of a certain niche. Some even fall right into "guilty pleasure" territory, or "so bad they're good".

I'm with ya on the hentai stuff, but coincidentally that change also happened with the crash too. Bible Black, probably the most "infamous" hentai, was produced from 2000 to 2008. Now I'm starting to wonder how the visual novel industry has changed over the years.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Solace

To be fair though, there's plenty of shows that no one would seriously consider "classic" but might fall into "worth checking out" if you're looking for something of a certain niche. Some even fall right into "guilty pleasure" territory, or "so bad they're good".

Totally true. I myself has a collection of 80s & 90s TV series & OVAs that I consider amusing even though quality-wise they're mediocre or downright bad. Some of them are definitely "guilty pleasures". Research will really help people determine which show is which and whether or not it interest them. It doesn't need to be complex. You can start from something as simple as looking for Youtube reviews of the anime-oldies from veterans like BennettTheSage, BobSamurai, etc. Doing a little bit of reading on comprehensive articles from various sites & blogs like WaveMotionCannon won't hurt too.

Originally Posted by Solace

I'm with ya on the hentai stuff, but coincidentally that change also happened with the crash too. Bible Black, probably the most "infamous" hentai, was produced from 2000 to 2008. Now I'm starting to wonder how the visual novel industry has changed over the years.

Ah yeah. Interesting, I wanna know too.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Wiki and MAL both disagree with you. And Wiki mentions Kodansha Box. So I'd appreciate it if you elaborated on just why the Monogatari Series shouldn't be considered LNs.

Yes it is old. That's 8 years ago. That's old in the fast-paced anime world. This very thread speaks to how fast-paced that anime world is.

There's plenty of people who loved the Shana anime, including myself. It's second season had some issues, but it's first and final seasons were both pretty well-received.

Archon_Wing already covered that nicely. So I was building off what he had wrote. These recent LN trends cause issues partly because older LNs weren't like this. That's a big part of my point. Shana is very magical/mysterious urban fantasy with a very carefully constructed lore-rich setting. Haruhi had a strong serious sci-fi edge, particularly in its handling of time travel. Both feel distinct from each other, and from most other LNs.

A lot of more recent LNs feel much more cookie-cutter in comparison, at least in my experience/opinion, particularly in how they handle their world settings. I remember Fall 2015 when Chivalry of a Failed Knight and The Asterisk War both came out as anime adaptations. I was amazed at just how similar their respective first episodes were.

Idol anime is pretty focused itself, sure. But unlike LNs, it doesn't have a very diverse history of prominent titles (by all means, include FMP and The Slayers as well). So recent trends in LNs are disappointing to some anime fans since we remember when the LN genre/medium had strong diversity and range.

In other words, there's no particular reason why modern LNs should be almost defined by modern-style isekai and harem romcom. Idol anime is, well, idol anime. So of course people would expect J-Pop idols/music and its surrounding subculture to be a big part of any idol anime. But light novels are a medium form.

Wiki and MAL are wrong. I can only elaborate on the information that I'm fed from people who've lived in Japan and people who are actively involved in LN subculture. Kodansha box novels aren't even sold in the LN section in japan. in fact, kodansha stays away from the term as far as possible because all their books are literary-styled fiction aimed at 24-40 year olds. This includes all of Nisio Isin's works. As for the only reason that Nisio Isin is bunched up with LNs in sales or other sites like ranobe-mori is because the meaning of a LN is unintuitive as shit. LN isn't a medium in itself. It's a marketing term for a pulp fiction styled book aimed at YA. This is different from "LN" as a culture which represents a ton of crazy experimenting on the publisher and author's side. You can read more in the link below.
https://curiouscat.me/kastelpls/post/119975653
On this link on best selling LNs, https://tanoshimi.xyz/2016/09/02/bes...-light-novels/ scroll down to #23, literally first sentence is "not an LN"

bake is 8 years old. Kizu anime is less than two months old. It's not old. I don't consider 2 months old. Like I said, no one is comparing other lns to monogatari when monogatari is still being adapted. Cause you know, you can watch a new and recent monogatari instead of complaining that the show you were going to watch is nothing like monogatari.

Ah yes, the mostly anime original 2nd season of Shana which had so much issues. And it's 3rd season not even selling much since it only came after 4 years(for reference, FSN UBW came out 9 years after deen's version and it didn't flop anywhere close to shana, if we took zero, then it's 5 years). And the author's new ln series(Kanae's star) also not even selling much. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

There are plenty of LNs that have what you're saying shana has. You're right on haruhi though.

Nice, so you actually pick some really popular ln shows to represent older lns, then just pick some no-name ln to represent modern ln. No one cares about gakusen or rakudai in the grand scheme of things.

LNs aren't defined by isekai or harem romcoms. Those are trends. But in no way do they represent modern LN.

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Personally, I remember the shitty half baked imouto fad for a bit but I'm not sure how widespread it was. It was pretty intense in being shit though.

And Monogatari was indeed old hat. I don't see nearly as much discussion, and hell I wasn't even aware something from it aired in 2016 when it showed up in the awards. That's just how things go.

Also lol @ Shana being a failure. Because it totally bombed and couldn't afford another season to finish it. "Urusai Urusai Urusai" was never a meme and Shana wasn't plastered everywhere in 2005 -2007 and Kugrie never voiced an army of tsundere clones. And we all know novels generally aren't voiced, right? The only reason why Season 3 did poorly was because it was aired so many years later. And nobody remembers that season 3 was actually pretty brisk compared to its former seasons. And then there was that fairly concise movie.... And the whole thing got dubbed over here in the United States.

I have noticed that the internet seems to be incredibly tunnel visioned in that regards, and the metric of faithfulness of adaptation is one that "most people" share. When reality does not necessarily go by it. Obviously when the adaptation is totally off, the bad press will show. But you have things like Little Busters, (Hey, everyone fling their poo at JC staff) that get panned for a number of legitimate and not-so-legitimate reasons and that shit still sells and gets localized abroad. I mean it's a terrifying aspect when an anime I don't like (Kuzu no Honkai) isn't immediately considered a failure, but that's life.

Imouto fad was rather short lived. Long name fad on the other hand though...
Shana wasn't a failure at all especially the first season. What came after though... The 2nd season was basically original and the 3rd season basically skipped to the last few volumes. and the 3rd season technically flopped in sales too. The translation of it got halted for little reason over here in the west. Huh, I don't miss any of that. That wasn't what I was trying to get at though. I just don't think it was that good and that there are plenty of LNs that offer a comparable or better story.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by IceHism

Imouto fad was rather short lived.

It was, but it was quite notable.

Shana wasn't a failure at all especially the first season. What came after though... The 2nd season was basically original and the 3rd season basically skipped to the last few volumes. and the 3rd season technically flopped in sales too. The translation of it got halted for little reason over here in the west. Huh, I don't miss any of that. That wasn't what I was trying to get at though. I just don't think it was that good and that there are plenty of LNs that offer a comparable or better story.

Yea, season 2 and 3 had their issues but that's not what we were talking about here. Season 1 also had many problems. You are free to name any unpopular anime franchise that manages to get another season 5 years after its previous incarnation (hint: that's a link to why it wouldn't have done so well regardless). You think you'll see an Umineko Season 2 by Deen?

Spoiler:

No you won't

And to get localized in other countries. 2 cours when in an age when 1 cour is the norm. As for the translation getting halted; well I don't see how that's particulary relevant, since there are tons of translation works that get halted for all kinds of reasons.

The thing is, your response doesn't address what you said earlier. You claimed that the adaptation of Shana was a disaster and that most people wouldn't miss it.

With how disastrous the shana adaption went, i'm pretty sure most people don't miss it either nor would i say it would be a better watch than a recent ln that was also given a runtime of 72 episodes.

That claim was of dubious quality and to speak on behalf of most people makes this statement rather hard to believe. It seems like you were unable to separate your own opinion of the series with what actually happened and your response here shows just as much. Not to see your points aren't valid, but I think there's a degree of tunnel vision. What a lot of people won't notice is that they often associate with those that share similar interests and thus this forms a bubble. When people get entrenched enough in their tastes and tendencies, they start to analyze everything in terms of that bubble and that's where this difficulty is coming from.

For example, Animesuki could be considered its own bubble. If you were to only extract what Western fans thought solely from the site, you would be missing a lot of the picture.

[Marcus H.]

Out of the 13 titles that you quoted, you’ve watched 5 titles and “know” 2 titles (which doesn’t count in my book until you experienced it). So I’d say from my short sample that you responded to, in terms of missing out, you’re still 50-50 (even counting the genre that you’re not a fan of). Just sayin’ though. Not telling you what to watch. And yes, finish that damn Gintama!

Many of the shows, despite being classics, don't really interest me that much. And I won't watch Cowboy Bebop just to get hammered on the head that YOU'RE GONNA CARRY THAT WEIGHT.

With how disastrous the shana adaption went, i'm pretty sure most people don't miss it either nor would i say it would be a better watch than a recent ln that was also given a runtime of 72 episodes.

If it was shitty, then it shouldn't have been adapted to its entirety. Regardless, Shana (the character) was one of the pillars of the late-2000s tsundere, and that's quite a feat if you'd ask me.

[Solace]

If I remember somewhat correctly, it was a combination of the large gap between seasons and the loose adaptation which made a lot of light novel readers pissed. Personally I hadn't read the novels, but even so it did still feel like the first season was the strongest, even if the other two were good enough if you just wanted more Shana.

Unpopular though? I'm not sure about that. What happened to Shana is common with anime adaptations. In fact, Shana was relatively lucky. It was given a mostly complete story with a lot of episodes for fans to enjoy. Compare that to "it may or may not ever get another season, so go buy our other merchandise!" status that so many other adaptations get. Even delivered as it was, Shana was given more care than most adaptations, and it's a strong enough brand even today that few would say no to more Shana.

Heck, I would recommend Shana precisely because new viewers could go back and get a mostly complete story.

[Mad Pierrot]

Some animes I watched last year were definitely old but recommended by fans. Of course, I watched the original Gundam trilogy by Tomino, the two Ashita no Joe series. When I asked about Mazinger, they instead recommended me Mazinkaser and Shin Mazinger. Something similar with the Captain Tsubasa animes because some of them skipped marches. As a result, I had to read the World Youth manga which never was completely covered.

[mashingan]

tldr; No, I never bother to watch older anime. I like the how current industry moving.

I started watched distro'ed anime about 10-11 years ago, (anime which broadcast in TV counted?)

I thought I'm kinda avid anime watcher, but after reading posts in this thread, I'm nothing
Edit: I even able to understand simple conversation after watching many shows, so I thought I was really avid anime fans Also I can read Kanji but that's thanks to additional effort, Tokyo Raven LN translation was lacked back then

[Toukairin]

I do watch old anime series at times, especially when it's the source material that goes before an upcoming series or OVA. Recently, I took the time to watch Patlabor movies and old OVAs again in order to get myself in the mood before the new OVA came out.

[InvaderBen]

lol they'd better watch older stuff since it's obviously superior to the new stuff that's coming out. Hardly any of those can be considered a true classic, unlike Cowboy Bebop or Evangelion.

[Liddo-kun]

Hmm, 2 of my friends finished Full Moon wo Sagashite and one of them also enjoyed and finished Chobits. Both are rather old shows by today. Classics are still enjoyable.

[Fireminer]

Anyone here ever watched Mason Ikkoku, I am Setsuna, and Kimagure Orange Road. It puzzled me how the uber Romance anime of their time can fade that fast in people's minds.

[felix]

Theres really no point in watching old stuff unless its a recognized masterpiece, or special in some way. At least modern mediocre stuff is easier to watch if nothing else, and it's not like there's infinite time to watch everything and do other stuff you want to do.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by felix

Theres really no point in watching old stuff unless its a recognized masterpiece, or special in some way. At least modern mediocre stuff is easier to watch if nothing else, and it's not like there's infinite time to watch everything and do other stuff you want to do.

I half-agree to that. It really depends on what you want to get. If you’re in the mood for something amusing and different from today’s anime, checking out the “non-masterpiece” titles from decades past can give you a good time as said by Solace above. Just do a research first, keep your mind open and leave the “the animation is old, so it's shit”-mindset before you watch. And like I have proven above, some 90s anime even look better than early 2000s stuffs when it’s presented in equal (HD) quality.

Originally Posted by Fireminer

Anyone here ever watched Mason Ikkoku, I am Setsuna, and Kimagure Orange Road. It puzzled me how the uber Romance anime of their time can fade that fast in people's minds.

I've watched Maison Ikkoku and yes, it was good/great SoL-romance. Kimagure is good. I already finished the manga and haven't checked the 48-episode anime simply coz I already know the story. Maybe some time later. And...I am Setsuna? Isn't that a new game released by Square Enix in 2016?? Or is there older anime called I am Setsuna out there???

[felix]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I half-agree to that. It really depends on what you want to get. If you’re in the mood for something amusing and different from today’s anime, checking out the “non-masterpiece” titles from decades past can give you a good time as said by Solace above.

That's really what I meant with the "special in some way" part. So I guess you fully agree.

I'll add, for me, this also extends to games. I've done the reverse where you play the old then the new, but from experience just slowly moved away from that. In "theory" moving from older clunkier mechanics to the modern version sounds like the better option, however in practice that just doesn't work out (for me). I won't go too deep but basically it boils down to:

• if you're hyped for the new thing that hype will get dilluded by playing the old thing; because it's not really the thing you're hyped about
• once you play the newest entry and get emersed in the mechanics and quirks of the series then it's actually easier to accept the older probably not as well explained or clunkier (many times just harder) version of the mechanics then it is experiencing them fresh with modern expectations—just like playing harder difficulties after finishing a game is an enjoyable experience
• if the game just doesn't turn out to be your kind of game, then you've been saved a lot of trouble; if it does turn out to be your thing then at the end you'll be very motivated to play the older titles. If you're starting with the old titles, then you don't really know that, since the old titles might be too obtuse for you to enjoy now with out prior experience, so you kind of just have to trudge though it. If you play the modern version first you have the knowledge when tackling the older games of if the game is bad or you just don't have the correct mindset for it

Of course there's a big caveat to this and anime as well, which is that if it's a story continuation thing thrown in there, then you're screwed.

Until the franchise reboots or gets the remaster touch anyway. I guess this is probably why we don't have long 52 episode non-kids shows anymore. And why in both anime and games the silent rule of you get 2-3 entries in a series (4 in special cases) and you're done with the storyline in question and have to reboot or relocate in the universe, holds quite a lot of power these days.

If a game/anime is at the 3rd iteration with the same cast and overall plot then it gets the benefit of the doubt, but if it's a the 4th iteration then I'm gonna be very cautious of if it's not just beating a dead horse, and if it's past the 4th then it better be some grand masterpiece of the ages that can do no wrong.

[Roencia]

When I became a new anime fan it was first watching old shows that were still around today like One Piece and Hunter x Hunter being my favroite. Though there are some older anime I can't get into cause they are just to old like Lupin the Third... though I love the odd but cool Lupin theme music.

[kj1980]

Define "old" because some here are like talking about One Piece and HUNTER x HUNTER as being "old" when they are more towards "new" titles from my POV, as being born in 1980, my view of old would be anything before 1980. By in large, that would be more of the Tezuka Osamu's Mushi Pro era and the early works of those who parted ways with Mushi Pro, which then goes into anime history.