2012-06-25, 13:49 | Link #29301 | |
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2012-06-25, 13:53 | Link #29302 | |
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and then those servants left, new ones arrived, Yasu was presented to them as 'Shannon', and the name 'Yasu' just disappeared. That would make sense...
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2012-06-25, 14:07 | Link #29303 |
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Nevermind because I remember she still went by Yasu when Berune and Asune came so I think she just probably told people not to call her that once she "became" Beatrice because that is when the Yasu name stops being used and the name Shannon starts to be used.
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2012-06-25, 14:41 | Link #29304 | ||
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One would of course assume all the other servants would know Yasu's name, however. Otherwise, you know, how'd they start calling her that? Quote:
1) No, Yasu probably doesn't look like Shannon. I'd be not the least bit surprised if she actually more closely looks like Kanon physically, particularly if she was born androgynous, hermaphroditic, or just flat-out biologically male. Shannon is a physical and behavioral ideal, and if Yasu strove to become Shannon it was most likely only in the behavioral sense. I find it highly unlikely she was stuffing her bra, unless that's just a body image issue we never got enough information on. In the stories, that does appear to have been the case (at least if we go by Ryukishi's jokes as truth about things), but I would somewhat doubt Yasu-Prime was doing that. She was just a servant who looked different from the way she'd idealize herself to look. Either that or she was even more insecure than she already portrays herself to be, which is possible at least. 2) No one in 1986 refers to her as Yasu because none of the other Fukuin servants are on the island in 1986. Even if they do still call her that (and they may not), none of them are there to do it. One would assume she is not known by the Yasu nickname among the family, so they'd call her Shannon. Genji is a professional and would not call her Yasu anywhere anyone could see her, if he ever even calls her that at all. Gohda probably doesn't know the Fukuin servants very well and might not even know her name/nickname, so he would also call her Shannon. Nanjo and Kumasawa may know, but they have to act like they don't know because they're not "supposed" to know. But also, all the representations of 1986 are fictional stories. The first of these written - allegedly - by Yasu herself. She's intentionally erasing herself from her own stories for a particular purpose. Thus, she doesn't want anyone calling Shannon Yasu, because in this fictional world there are two servants who represent two aspects of herself and she clearly wants them both to be happy even though she knows it isn't "really" possible. One could even argue it's authorial escapism, allowing Shannon and Kanon to both exist in some form in the story as independent personalities, even if they're the same "person" in terms of the mystery solution. Also she's really insecure and probably doesn't mind no one noticing she's not in her own story. And part of finding the "heart" is to recognize the person who isn't there. ...But this sort of makes me wonder how stupid everyone can possibly be. I mean, surely Kanon wasn't a thing that was actually going on in real life that anybody credible among the servants believed. If you asked one of the many Fukuin servants who were still employed but not on Rokkenjima on Oct. 4-6, 1986, they would presumably tell you that in addition to Genji, there was one Fukuin servant on the island. They would know this. Or, at the very least, the way Shannon and Kanon behave would not seem "right" to them, as Shannon and Kanon are highly idealized. While Battler might not necessarily know this himself, and would have to figure it out, anybody willing to do even a tiny bit of research into the whole Rokkenjima Incident thing would have been able to talk to one of the many servants who had worked there in the early 80s. That and, um, confirm that no such person as Kanon ever actually existed at Fukuin (which ep8 at least suggests someone may have actually done), unless Genji doctored the records. And I don't see why he would bother, since he was in control of that and probably wasn't expecting anyone to start looking into Kanon after everyone mysteriously exploded.
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2012-06-25, 14:57 | Link #29305 | |
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The adult servants (Genji, Kumasawa) are shown as not being as petty; they probably never used that name. Family members probably only used her professional name and may never have been aware of the nickname at all.
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2012-06-25, 14:59 | Link #29306 |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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It may just be me misinterpretting the EP7 scenes, but maybe Shannon also was someone separate from Yasu who Yasu wanted to be like. If Shannon graduated with Renon's group and Yasu turned out to be a *very* great master of disguise, then it would have went something like "I thought you left Shannon." "Oh no." As far as "Yasu" goes, she never really was thought of much. She might not have even been missed.
On the other hand, we also know that "Yoshiya" was made up. I don't quite know what the name means, but is it possible that "Sayo" is just as made up?
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2012-06-25, 15:11 | Link #29307 | |
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K Still, the locked room in Natsuhi’s chamber is a special case. If Shannon actually committed suicide, there is nobody who can get rid of the weapon. If you think of Genji finalizing that, then it just happens smoothly, but…hmm *laugh*. R7 Because we have come so far, I think I can give you an answer, though it is basically the same trick as with the well. Shannon died face down, slumped over the makeup cabinet. It’s a really simple trick. You tie the weapon to a heavy object with a string, then you throw the heavy object behind the cabinet. And then it’s the classic trick, when you commit suicide, the gun is pulled behind the cabinet towards the heavy object. K So that’s how it went?! R7 I thought, because you solved the riddle of the well as well, that you would get this trick without any problem. I especially wrote that she was „slumped over, face down, over the makeup cabinet“. And while the other two in the room were actually pierced by the stakes, Shannon was not. That is why you can imagine her being the last to die in that room, because there was nobody left to insert the stake into the gunwound. There was never a full inspection of that special room, so that means that the weapon was left within it. Also another part i found very interisting about shannon K Love is really a sufficient motive even for murder, isn’t it?! R7 And I think people who do not know that, will sadly never understand Umineko. Because Umineko is „the story of a single girl who arrived at that point because she imagined an incident because of the love and madness in herself“, no matter how much I express that, people who don’t share that feeling will never do so. If I had to compare it, it’s similar to a kick in the crotch or menstrual pain. No matter how much more I pile up on my writing by explaining it, it won’t reach the people who don’t know the feeling. How scary must it be, to be told that your partner „wants children“, when you have a body that cannot make love. That’s why Shannon couldn’t speak honestly. Because she thought she would be hated if she were honest. But to be honest, I think if she really told him that, George would be more than happy to modify his plans for the future. But Shannon was far to scared to hear that. And if you turn this around, it means that George really wasn’t just a replacement for Battler. Maybe he was a replacement at the beginning, but at some point she began completely seeing George for the man he was. If you think about that, his comment about children, must have kept haunting her in silence. K Then I think it is also a clue that nothing happened between them, while they were staying at the same place in Okinawa. R7 It is a clue. To just blurt it out spontaneously was more than Shannon was ready for. „I will reveal it sometime“. Because she was so scared of herself, she couldn’t confess. If it had been because of one action that George took, she wouldn’t have had any choice, that was the balance of passivity she upheld. While she did not hide it actively, she also wouldn’t talk about it openly. Because of that thinking, going on that trip to Okinawa was an experience to her like being a carp on a high slope, „He prepared separate rooms for us *twitch*?“ *laugh*. That knightly George came all the way to Okinawa only to dare and prepare separate rooms? Shannon must have been like „What?!“. But there are many scenes like that which show how Shannon left the decision to fate. For example at the first twilight in EP1, when George was told by Hideyoshi „You should not look at this corpse!“. If he had gone in, not minding that there would be no face, he would have seen that there was no corpse. It would have meant the end of the incident. Or even if Battler had actually squeezed Shannon’s breasts, he might have noticed that they are fake. Shannon was in a state of mind that said „if it comes to light, let it“. |
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2012-06-25, 16:22 | Link #29309 | |
Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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He doesn't have enough love! Without love, the truth cannot be seen. One has to trust in the creator of a mystery game in order to solve it. There's no need to believe in any of the reds at all if everything that Ryukishi says is a lie, let alone believe that the black text fantasy scenes or interviews are conveying important information to us. If he thinks everything Ryukishi says is a lie, every bit of information that guy Knownomore's theories rely on might as well be based on nothing. It's useless, it's all useless, isn't it?! *cackle cackle cackle*/Ahaha.wav (I know, some of the reds are dubious, but I do think that Ryukishi likely believes them to be legit. He may be failing to give all the right info, but isn't it true what I think Virgilia said, that although a game may be made to be solved, the person setting it may have a different idea of what is and isn't possible to be guessed?) |
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2012-06-25, 16:29 | Link #29310 |
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Hell, I have no trust in Ryukishi at all and I still believe he's sincere about what he thinks he intended to do with his own damn story. I just think his decisions are bad.
Besides, it's easier to believe he's shifty or incompetent with respect to contradicting the red than to believe the red is true and he's meta-trolling to an extent that defies all common sense.
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2012-06-25, 16:35 | Link #29311 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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Well, yes. There are levels of trust. By this point, if the Shkanontrice theory isn't true to some degree at least on the gameboards, then Ryukishi is lying to the point where there's very little point in paying attention to anything he says. I'm not sure I trust Ryukishi to deliver a good solution (or even to deliver a solution at all...) but I would agree that he's sincere in his intentions and isn't trying to have everything he says be a lie.
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2012-06-25, 17:28 | Link #29313 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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exactly that is another thing that makes no sense. Who would spend their precious time writing a whole entire story that is nothing but a lie. Considering also how hard making Visual Novels is why would Ryukishi waste his time writing a lie. It doesn't make any sense.
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2012-06-25, 17:39 | Link #29314 | |
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...Yeah I got nothin'.
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2012-06-25, 17:51 | Link #29315 |
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Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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EP7? What the hell was the point of the whole umineko.
With the Rose\George interpretation you get a story about stories just because. There is no real purpose nor a logical explanation as to why these many different fictional stories all portraying the same culprits exist. With the standard interpretation, however, there is a precise a purpose. Each story is meant to communicate something to a precise person. In EP8 it was even stated that for Beatrice and Battler the murder mystery challenge is a way of communicating something. Now if the purpose of the fictions was to communicate the truth of a murder, they wouldn't make much sense, because you can hardly understand the truth of a murder when the situations drastically change each different game. But if the purpose is to communicate something that is only secondarily related to a murder mystery, then it makes sense that they are all differents. The fact that they keep changing proves that the mystery itself is not what matters, what really matters is what never changes, and that's the culprit and its reasons (plus some other details like shkanon). And this is important because you actually a have a person (Yasu) who by mean of these fictions wants to communicate something (her love) to a precise person (Battler). And this isn't just something that happens in the metaworld, the metaworld is like a metaphor, it needs to be based on something real before existing. Yasu actually wanted to communicate her message through her mystery and she actually wrote those stories (the first 2 arcs plus a missing third) which had the same purpose. And this is what Umineko is about. Umineko is not about a culprit or two killing their family members. Umineko is about a girl who wanted to communicate her love to a boy that she couldn't see for the last six years due to certain tragicomic circumstances. And she chose the most ineffective way to do it, because she didn't even know what she really wanted herself.
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2012-06-25, 18:04 | Link #29317 | |||||||
Detective, Witch, Pirate.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
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The Yasu theory isn't as ridiculous, because it is based on a human being who had an abnormal life and difficulties understanding itself, not even having a gender as an identity, and well, in the context of Umineko and a fictional story, if you're willing to accept some far-fetching, it's acceptable. Quote:
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Other than that, I don't see why the other Fukuin servants would be aware of what the shift program was at the day of the conference or why the should be able to tell you which servants were there or not. After all, since servants come and go and stay just for two years, I don't think there was any servant working at Rokenjima who had any means of supsecting Kanon wasn't really at the Fukuin house. It's a little careless of Ryukishi as I said above, but not a total screwup that can't work no matter what. Quote:
Well, but actually, for me, and I'm speaking only for myself now, the red made things clearer when I actually figured out the Shkanon thingy. Like, oh, yeah, that right there is a trap wanting to make you think this and that, and it sort of helped become more positive that my theory was actually right. And by the way, KnownNoMore's 'favorite' argument about the red disproving the Shkannon theory, because of the 'people' 'bodies' 'personalities' mumbo-jumbo can easily be explained in a more rational fashioned by saying that the red is Beato's chew toy, and she can do whatever she wants with it, which I think can be supported more adequately by the actual story. But, yeah, Ryukishi is just a doujin creator. Maybe his works can be endlessly fun to read and dangerously addictive, but no, he's nowhere close to an evil genious like that. P.S: Wow, I really type slow....So many posts were made until I finished this wall of text it makes me feel like I'm totally coming out of the blue...
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Last edited by Captain Bluebeard; 2012-06-25 at 18:14. |
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2012-06-25, 18:22 | Link #29318 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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the most ridiculous part of his theory is explaining the Ep 6 Logic Error.
ShKanon explanation: After going into the closet Kanon "killed" himself and became Shannon His explanation: Erika shot Kanon through the door. Now I tried to go against him by saying. Erika never had a gun in her possession when she entered the mansion. Never is it mentioned she had a gun of any kind. He then responded saying that the Meta scene explains it because she shot him. So pretty much he violated Knox Knox's 8th It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented. There is also one thing I am wondering. Isn't Erika a walking contradiction. She is able to say in Red she is the detective and also say she is the killer.
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2012-06-25, 18:44 | Link #29319 | |||
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
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Seriously, how defeated would that guy feel if confronted Renall's masterpiece of a theory explaining the logic error (see:EP6 thread)? Quote:
And by the way, let's say we accept that she shot him. WHY DUNNIT? Why the hell would Erika shoot Kanon in the closet? Or how did she know he was in the closet in the first place? Or where did she acquire the gun? Or how could she be sure that she wouldn't miss him since she couldn't actually see him? The whole premise of this is ridiculous. But I guess KnownNoMore knows best than Knox and common sense. Quote:
Now, when she makes her self introduction and says 'I'm the detective' in red, she just states something that is true about herself, Erika is a detetective, but that doesn't really apply on the game boards and doesn't need to be thought trough to much. It's just Erika being blue.
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2012-06-25, 19:06 | Link #29320 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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He should since it's in red! I know he's aware that Erika in EP6 violates Knox's 1st and doesn't like it. |
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