2009-07-22, 21:44 | Link #1261 |
Even in Death I Serve
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Beyond the Time
Age: 29
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I think that Rey turning all evil was done a bit too fast, they should have given hints for his hatred of Kira, They kinda of rushed it, and i guess they wanted to show that Rau's, ideals will still exist. Since Rau is the one who gave the n jammer canceler data to the EA.
they should have showed Rey's true character a little earlier I personally think.
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2009-07-22, 22:18 | Link #1262 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Durandal wasn't evil parsay. He just had little to no faith in humanity and seemed to see most people as statistics. His idea was basically that if a greater amount of humanity was guarenteed to survive and be happy with the Destiny Plan than that was the only way to do things and he would accept nothing else. He didn't want them to think for themselves only to listen to him, and he used Logos as a target for everyones blame so they'd warm up to him. He also manipulated media and lied to people, and manipulated feelings especially Shinn's.
He also was premptive and attacked people unjustified in the event that they could be a problem like framing Athrun when he doubted him, and sending assassins after Lacus and Kira just because they might present a threat. In fact some people think that Durandal masterminded the entire war by sneaking PP into the Plant in ep 1 and arranging the Junius drop so he could eliminate Logos because he personally didn't believe the peace would last. That personally might be a bit extreme, but Durandal is clearly up to something the entire series and has some plan unfolding, as nothing ever surprises him and he's always got this "just as planned" smirk on everything goes his way. Lacus and Kira on the other hand want people to think for themselves. In Lacus's speech against Durandal she basically tells people that rather than blaming Logos for all the problems of the world and washing their hands of it, they should look within themselves to fix things and not to just blindly obey everything Durandal says. They only went to war with Durandal because he was going to kill many many people to enforce the Destiny Plan (as Durandal outright says anyone who is against the DP is an enemy of mankind) and/or force people to accept it who do not want to. The reason nobody learned anything from the first series is because everything about the war was covered up and as far as people knew the two sides just laughed the war off and came to peace. They weren't told that both sides nearly genocided the other into oblivion or that a rogue faction was the one that were the real heroes. This is evident because nobody seemes to know that Athrun left Zaft in the first war and nobody seems aware that the Clyne Faction is a seperate force. Everyone thinks that Freedom AA and Eternal were fighting for Zaft last war. If they really knew that the CF were the only people in the last war that had their heads on straight they would have taken them more seriously. Since Lacus is now leading Zaft (and no, she did not intentionally try to seize power for evil purposes) I can only assume she won't make that mistake and will come clean with everyone. |
2009-07-22, 23:10 | Link #1263 |
Sanbantai Taiin~
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Holland
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I agreeee. I'm watching it now, and I'm at episode 13 or something(therefore not reading the comments above, spoilers are not gooood). Shinn really sucks. I hate his guts. But why does Destiny fail? Because there was never supposed to be a Gundam SEED Destiny. Destiny should have never been made. Maybe I'm judging too quickly, but SEED itself was much better, and even SEED wasn't all that awesome.
Destiny really screwed up everything that had happened before, deaths in vain and stuff. I'm really wondering who in the world would let an 18-year-old rule over a country? I feel really sorry for Cagalli. I'm still gonna be watching it to the end though. |
2009-07-22, 23:24 | Link #1264 | |||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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As for failing to make the Destiny Plan as menacing as they should have, I'd agree on that. While I don't think that it's strictly necessary to make the villain's grand scheme look evil as possible, it really should been addressed better. I would count this as a real failing of Destiny. Even as is, I still think that it's quite interesting. You're making a bit of a mistake though when it comes to motivation: the three main characters on the Orb side: Cagalli, Kira and Lacus; all had different reasons for fighting against Durandal, and their points of view shouldn't be conflated. Lacus, for example, didn't need any special for opposing him - she already knew that he was her enemy as soon as the assassins attacked. Moreover, she didn't really approve of Cagalli's tactics - and so she rebuilt her own power base. Quote:
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That's really hard to say. Lacus is perhaps the hardest to read of all the characters in the Gundam shows so it's really hard to tell exactly what she'll end up doing. Moreover, there are serious challenges to her authority as there are old factions that strongly oppose her, and these factions still enjoy a modicum of support in ZAFT and in PLANT's general populace.
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2009-07-23, 01:22 | Link #1266 | ||
yare yare..
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Earth (:
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But isn't Shinn too, the protagonist? Just because his side was opposed and won over in the end, doesn't necessarily strip the fact that he is, still one of the main characters. One of the leading characters (yeah, and this is coming from someone who utterly hates this moronic bastard). ..which is why I'm saying that Destiny really does not follow the definite black and white. Everyone is merely fighting for their beliefs. Perhaps what would make Durandal an antagonist, would be his trait of a villain. Quote:
I am not asking you to hate him nor do I have the intention to make you hate him. Durandal could possibly be the most well-written character in Destiny. Yet I am merely pointing out that, if there are villains in Destiny, Durandal would definitely be on the list. As for the Lacus assassination attempt, I am as assured that he planned and directed it as you are assured that it might not be him. Let's keep it at that. Finally, perhaps one more point you should know - I do not hate Durandal. I am merely pointing out.
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Last edited by Neku; 2009-07-23 at 01:32. Reason: Rephrase |
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2009-07-23, 10:44 | Link #1267 |
Count of Monte Dorifto
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lol, I always thought of GSD as just an excuse to sell model kits and fanservice, which is why I never really took the plot all too seriously, despite the series being still rather entertaining.
Personally though, I thought it would have been better if Shinn destroyed Freedom in Destiny Gundam rather than Impulse, therefore bringing more hype to the Destiny Gundam and actually having the supposed 'title suit' bring down another main character suit. |
2009-07-23, 13:43 | Link #1268 | |||
Retweet Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
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Your basing so much of this on off-screen prowess… WE SAW Dullindal playing his game, we DIDN’T SEE LACUS do $hit but show up and wave her magic wand of doubt and omnipotence…She saw DESTINY PLAN scribbled in a notebook and goes “WTFBBQ!!” when it's basically Obama's job-stimulus package…I know I’ll never convince you, but maybe I can convince somebody who believes in you… No matter what you think Dullindal was dastardly planning or scheming, the truth of the matter is MORE THAN A BILLION people would have had to agree with him for him to pass his plan…He made a campaign and if they accepted then that’s there deal…Team Lacus didn’t agree because they have omnipotent powers so they felt he needed to be killed…In-turn he lost it (I’ll admit that, it was Lacus and Kira’s support from Orb that kept his finger on the trigger), but still the DESTINY PLAN wasn’t $hit to be all Armageddon about (Because no one disagreed with him but Cagali’s Orb)… Quote:
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2009-07-23, 14:38 | Link #1269 | ||
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The "you" is not you personally, Neku, but rather a plural you referring to the people behind Gundam Seed Destiny. Maybe I'm picking up on something that isn't really there, but I did get this strong sense that the people behind Gundam Seed Destiny were strongly hinting to the viewer that they should root against Durandal. That they were setting him up for a big fall, and you the viewer, are intended to enjoy watching it. Quote:
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2009-07-23, 15:03 | Link #1270 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Well since its pretty clear that the 2nd half of show was not at all what they planned while working on the first seeing as most if not all of the early plot points were completely abandoned, I'm guessing the reveal that he sent them was just abandoned or forgotten about.
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2009-07-23, 18:22 | Link #1271 | ||||
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2009-07-23, 23:59 | Link #1272 | |
Beef Fried Rice
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Chicago
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I thought GSD was pretty good when it first came out. The series itself was very successful commercially. In fact, SEED and Destiny were what got me into watching anime, reading mangas and building Gunpla so they would always hold a spot in my heart. However, after watching through it a second time, the flaws started to stand out. The reuse of footage was ridiculous, the recap episodes were a complete waste of time, and the plot had some major holes/flaws (Impluse's Excalibur gaining a beam emitter on the point for example). However, I still think that GSD is pretty good. Nowhere near as good a Seed but it was good, not great. Despite it's flaws, I'd agree with most of the points that people have made about the good things in GSD. It's too bad that Fukada and his wife couldn't implement the story better. Now the thing about who's the bad guy and who's the good guy, it's all up to who you see had the right ideals. I believe Fukada had planned for Durandal to be the bad guy from the start. However, that doesn't make Durandal an antagonist. The thing that most people forget is that the titles of protagonist and antagonist don't automatically make one character good and the other bad. The protagonist is the main character or group characters who share the same ideas and the story focuses on them. Technically, this would make Durandal, Rey and Shinn (even though he was a puppet) the protagonists. Durandal saying that he wants "people to live a happy life" and Shinn going all googly eyed and following along. The plot in GSD was setup to present 2 trains of thought for ending violence: the Destiny Plan and Kira and companies' way. GSD was setup from the start to slowly reveal bits and pieces of Durandals true intentions with the Destiny Plan, therefore, making him the protagonist. The antagonist is basically another character of set of characters that have differing views from the protagonists. So, Kira and crew could be thought of the antagonists since they oppose the Destiny Plan. So, like I said earlier, it's up to the viewer to decide who they think who ultimately were the good guys and who were the bad guys. As for me, I believe that Durandal was the de facto "bad guy." This of course will mean that Kira and crew are the "good guys." However, I know many will argue that Lacus' actions may have hidden evil intentions and that it was a power grab. It's still unclear as to whether she's the Chairwoman, a council member or an envoy by the end of GSDSE 4. Besides, Fukada and his wife have so pinholed Kira and Lacus into the goody-two-shoes role that if they did something like drastically alter one of their roles, they'd probably destroy the SEED franchise. Not to mention that they'd incur the wrath of all the Kira/Lacus fans that they built the SEED franchise off of (lol...I know many will say that GSD already destroyed it). I still can't believe that Kira and Lacus are still at the top of the Favorite Anime Characters (Japanese ones at least) lists after all these years! Wow, that was a long ass post!! Hope I made sense! Last edited by FriedRice84; 2009-07-24 at 00:10. |
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2009-07-24, 02:08 | Link #1273 | ||
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 41
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In regards to the assisination attempt, the so called co-ordinators\elite\specialforces guys is not doing any justice if the viewer is watching scenes like a a guy running out of a door spraying bullets like an 8 year old playing a first person shooter for the first time. Im sorry if im suppose to take those kind of actions seriously to establish they are (elite/specialforces) when i have seen other anime and hollywood movies do a far better job to distinguish idiots from proffessionals. (Btw i am also serviceman) Im not asking for fakuda to do SWAT/Commando training to be exactly executed in the real world. All im asking is to make sure the scenes they put in are convincing to a generous degree that words co-ordinators/specialforces ETC are met with the actual dialogue of they are what they suppose to act on to be. This is not helping either when there is no solid proof that lucas faction thinks that Dullindal sent them on just mere circumstantional situations. This will just add more towards Dullindall is innocent arguments that could of been minmised if there is a more convincing on screen illustration. This is just another way of saying, why cant people accept my point of view Quote:
This just adds another example on how Dullindal could be/is innocent with bad directing execution. |
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2009-07-24, 03:28 | Link #1274 | |||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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And seeing that this is steering towards the matter of Lacus' assassination (again ), I'll post the response to winter45's post in the Lacus' Assassination (Redux) thread. Please post any responses on this topic over there.
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2009-07-24, 04:02 | Link #1275 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 41
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4TRAN you totally missed the 2nd half of my reponses on your so called Steering towards "Assisination on Lacus" IM more on terms of agreeing with wingdarkness of bad writing and execution while using other posters on neutral ground as examples of diversity of conflicting POV's. Which also does contribute my personal reasoning on why GSD failed. If you really believed i was steering away from what caused GSD to fail, could you at least transfer my posts there, instead of giving a link to respond to my response somewhere else. (Even there the kira/lacus fanboyism still doesnt convince me) |
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2009-07-24, 04:12 | Link #1276 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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2009-07-24, 14:48 | Link #1278 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
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This goes to my original point of contrast that states that no matter what HE WANTED TO DO, he couldn’t do it without a HUGE, beyond fair margin of Earth and Space behind it…You can’t drop syringes on people from a deathray, and since he had already established ZAFT as a force against Djbril and #1 aid-merchant after “Break the World” he had clear support worldwide (One thing the show actually does give fair evidence on) Support that a piece of paper in a notebook scribbled DESTINY PLAN wouldn’t be enuff to eradicate, nevermind making some pink haired Miley Cyrus think it was ARMAGEDDEN on the universe… What would be the point in sacrificing all that he went thru to get the support of the world with trying to do this via threat of deathray?? Moreover, Dullindal couldn’t bully this plan even if he wanted to because of the scope implied, but (like many who watched this show) he went a little bat$hit after it was shown that 2 people (Kira and Lacus) and their team of super allstar good-guy terrorists could pwn an entire universal army with no sweat or lost mechanical limbs…By the time he tried to blow up Orb and his own squad he had lost pretty much everything he had gained in the propaganda for implementing his plan… Quote:
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2009-07-24, 15:27 | Link #1279 | ||||
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2009-07-24, 17:15 | Link #1280 |
Ancient Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
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IIRC not even Dullindal's pawns had a lot of positive things to say... Even Shinn & Rey agreed with it only because it was Dullindal's plan and they would do anything to further his plans... Most of the ZAFT people had doubts about it.
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