Empirical Study of Bleach Pairings and Love Triangles

[Sinta]

UPDATED!!!!! INOUE CONFESSION ANALYSIS post 21

Mind you this is a very long posts. There are alot of points. The first part of the thread is pairing choices. if you want to read about your favorite pairing. Each post is independent in nature. You do not need to read it all in order. if you are an Inoue/Ichigo fan. Go to that post it. You will find it interesting. You don't have to read the entire thing. The love triangle essay is next. Read this if you have nothing else to do.

Ichigo/Rukia Post 1

Inoue/Ichigo Post 3

Rukia/Renji Post 4

Inoue/Ishida Post 5


The following is part one of the results of a little study that I conducted to find out why particular fan pairings were more popular then others in Bleach. This first post is about Rukia and ichigo and subsequent posts will be about Ichigo and Inoue, Rukia and Renji and so on.

Note on methodology: There are two types of empirical studies; quantitative and qualitative. The first is quantitative. These studies are usually in the form of a survey or another type of point type system, and tend to be more causal in nature. These are the types of studies that you can do statistical analyses on, meaning that you can compare the mean, medium, mode and use other types of analyses tools such as standard deviance, and the bell curve. The second type of empirical study is qualitative . These types of studies, by their very nature, are quite a bit more subjective in content. Interviews is the most common type of qualitative study. My methodology was qualitative in nature. I used the forum and asked the posters for information. I also went through the various forums and looked for peoples personal reasons. This study by it’s very nature is subjective, i had to gather the information, put into a table and try to interpret the information that I gathered. This section is the result of an effort to effectively understand what is so appealing about the different character parings. We’ll start out with Ichigo seeing that he is the main character. In the the study i asked posters from different forums to tell me what they liked about Rukia and Ichigo. This is the result of that question.

I would also note that many fans though very willing to give their opinions in a Rukia vs. Inoue forum were very reluctant to share when directly asked. I think this was the most surprising thing I found.

Ichigo and Rukia.

Overview

According to most fans, the Ichigo and Rukia pairing, by far, seems to reflect the natural outcome of the story and the message that is trying to be conveyed. People that don’t instinctively (for whatever reason) latch on to another characters (Inoue or Taskui) seem to feel that this is the best and most natural couple in the series. These were the most common items brought in the anticipation of a romantic relationship between Rukia and Ichigo.

Their relationship is the driving force behind the story.

It was mentioned earlier that a desire of most fans for an Ichigo/Rukia pairing comes from the natural progression of the story. If Rukia hadn’t showed up the story wouldn’t exist. The bulk of the story (the Soul Society Arc) revolves around Ichigo’s desperate desire to save Rukia’s physical and mental well being. (though the second was inadvertent I think) It doesn’t matter what Ichigo’s reasons were because people don’t identify with his words. It’s his actions that matter. And many fans interpret Ichigo’s actions with someone that is in love but doesn’t recognize it.

Rukia’s and Ichigo’s situation has a reverse psychology kind of feel to it. Rukia is the main female lead (there are very few who would argue that) but unlike other anime’s like Naruto, or Inuyasha she is quite popular. (unlike Sakura for instances, Hinata for a long time was far more popular. I am not sure if that is still the case) Rukia is consistently third or higher in the character polls in Japan. This is very odd, one hypothesis is that Rukia’s and ichigo’s relationship have the classic anime mold, but not the classic anime characteristics.

For example,

Mold: Boy meets girl (or girl meets boy) girl (or boy) changes boy’s (or girl’s) life. Problems are presented; story ensues.

Characteristics: More often then not. This situation almost requires some type of affection if not romantic affection. In my Love Triangle essay (http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=157104) the fourth rule discusses the importance of the Main female/Main Male relationship and that it is something that is so paramount to your understanding of anime as a whole that it’s a component that should always be examined. Never ignore the weight of the main heroine/main hero relationship

However though Rukia’s and ichigo’s situation fits the mold it doesn’t fit the characterization. For example, the two have little or no physical contact and don’t display the classic “blushing because he/she touchs me” act that is prevalent in so many anime today. The few times that Rukia and ichigo do come into contact are often violent in nature and even if they aren’t violent, they arent particularly romantic. (Ichigo carrying Rukia like a football comes to mind) This lack of initial forthrightness in establishing some sort of deeper romantic affection in view of their development as a potential couple has left something missing in a familiar pattern. Think of a jarring note in a familiar song. This leaves people who would probably of picked INOUE picking Rukia, assuming the mangka had a established Rukia and Ichigo as soul mates from the get go. Essentially this phenonena causes people to route for the outcome that they deemed more natural, all while leaving their affection in place. (Often people try to fight against fate when it comes to couples Sakura and Naruto come to mind) Essentially Rukia’s and Ichigo’s relationship has become the under dog that everyone routes for. It would have been interesting to see how the fandom would spilt if ichigo and Rukia had the cliche instance attraction thing going on. (See Suzuka for example) In light of this analysis, it's really quite amazing the amount of supporters that ichigo and Rukia have especially since there is no CLEAR indication as to the state of their feelings. It’s not apparent if Kubo intended it to be like this or if he even intends to maintain this status quo, but he’s doing a bang up job nonetheless.

Their realistic emotional intimacy and growth (Relationship Dynamic)

This is probably the most popular answer that was given when it came to research conducted. Even though people may really like other pairings for Ichigo or rukia they just have a hard time getting pass the depth of Ichigo’s and Rukia’s relationship. Their ability to see into each other hearts and the almost force progression that results is something that can’t be easily ignored by fans that don’t have a fixation on another character. Fans see this depth and progression and then look at ichigo’s other potential interest and they just can’t see Ichigo “loving” someone that is not Rukia. (Or loving someone else while Rukia is still around) Furthermore most fans see the realistic development provided and just grow more and more attached as time goes by and as Ichigo’s and Rukia’s perceived affection becomes more apparent.

Fans see that Ichigo and Rukia aren’t people who are shallow when it comes to their emotional complexity. In not so many words Ichigo’s and Rukia’s relationship is so dynamic and so complex that it breaks down people’s emotions to see two people with such obvious attraction ignore their rightful place at each other’s side. Furthermore the perceived, though not often commented on, reasons as why they would be terrible for one another seems to just further the fire of fan’s desire adding oil to the flame as fans try to envision Rukia telling Soul Society that she is staying in the human world to be with Ichigo, forsaking her status as a nobel, her duty as a squad member of the 13th division and her relationship with her brother and Renji. Simply put. Reasons. The fans can see the reasons that these two would fall in love.

An interesting phenomena that should be commented on in connection with this variable is the tendencies of Inoue’s fans who understand ichigo’s and Rukia’s relationship. Many times in forum it seems that those fans who are not blinded by their fanboyism and at least recognize that rukia is very important to Ichigo will often make claims to the true nature of Ichigo’s and Inoue’s relationship placing Rukia in a category with Ichigo’s sisters. This is a very interesting idea which effectively displaces Rukia from Ichigo’s side and opens the path to him. Which of course would be filled with none other then Inoue the only other real contender for Ichigo’s heart. This phenomena comes out of a recognition that a strong emotional bond exists but an unwillingness to confirm the most likely path the bond will lead to. It is not conclusive as to why they do this but it’s probably because of their deep affection for inoue.

People identify with Ichigo, Rukia, or paring itself

This is the most universal of the answers, meaning that it applies to every couple that will be discussed. People like Ichigo, or identify with him and want him to succeed in life and love. They think that Ichigo wants Rukia, therefore Ichigo should get Rukia. The same argument goes for Rukia and the pairing. While VERY unique in some ways, Rukia and Ichigo relationship isn’t that unique in others, especially if you look at the boarder spectrum of anime. Full Metal Panic and Naruto have similar relationships in that the couples are violent to the point of humorous. Many people have this type of relationship in real life. The playful banner, the hitting, the flirting Etc. Many people can identify with this behavior (having a problem expressing their real emotion) and can see themselves in that relationship. They relate to Ichigo or Rukia and want them to be happy, and by extension want themselves to be happy.

[Sinta]

The reasons people don’t like Ichigo/Rukia

1) Predictability: people don’t like it when something is set up as a possibility when it really isn’t. Inoue likes Ichigo but as of right now many fans think that everything points towards Rukia/Ichigo (its not really, like i explained earlier the fact that Ichigo and Rukia isn’t a foregone conclusion is what makes them so likable) They don’t think it’s fair for Ichigo/Rukia to be a forgone conclusion. (Which is the way that fans of the Ichigo/Rukia pairing talk about it) These are the people that go for the underdog. (Which is confusing I know many people think that rukia is the underdog) People want the gym teacher from Canvas 2 to win not the stupid little blonde chick. They fight against the norm because the norm sucks.

2) The nature of their relationship

The people that don’t like this paring feel that the nature of Ichigo’s and Rukia’s relationship is brother/sister. These fans feel that Ichigo’s actions towards Rukia couldn’t constitute romance but a deep platonic bond. These arguments tend to stem from missed opportunity then something that would conclusively point towards a brotherly affection, however as it is often said in the forums. That is a matter of interpretation.

Well there you have that’s the Ichigo/Rukia Section I will update this as soon as Inoue/Ichigo section is done. Later

[Sinta]

Ichigo and Inoue

Inoue and ichigo is probably the relationship that has had the most foreplay. Inoue is the main rival in fan-dom for Rukia and their forums and debates are often the most heated. This paring tends to be centered on either a hatred of Rukia or just an over abundance of love for Inoue. This paring is based more on individual character development and the emotional bonds those fans make through that development, then something that develops through the natural progression of the story, or Inoue/Ichigo specific relationship dynamic. The fans in this fandom can be especially outrageous in there claims, causing fans of the other paring or people that don’t have a preference just to ignore them. However many of them are very intelligent and quite good at their arguments employing things like structural parallelism, psychoanalysis and other types of tools that emboldens their points in a clear manner. The debates between these people and the Rukia fans who don’t fall back to bashing are some of the more enjoyable exchanges I have read on anime forums. Here are the most common items brought up.

1) Same age, good chemistry etc; she is the logical choice.


These are the ideas of fans that are hoped for and not seen in the manga, and really they have a point. Fans of this paring say that no one in their right mind would choose Rukia over Inoue. The idea is difficult to understand in unless you have a overall grasp of Inoue’s place within the Bleach world. Let’s use Shuffle as an example. Shuffle is a Harem anime about a boy who has a choice to marry the daughters of both the king of the gods and the king of the demons. He is also taken care of a childhood friend who by common consent is “all that”. In the world of Shuffle it is really hard to determine who would and who wouldn’t be “popular” based on their appearances alone. This is because the characters are so much alike in their appearance. The author handles this for us however by giving us a external source of information. We gain insight to the desirable nature of the other characters by the reactions of the main’s characters male classmates. This is a common tool used in Harem anime. (Naruto exhibits some of this as well) The author shows just how big a deal it is that all these girls like this one guy all while keeping the main character aloof. In the case of Shuffle, Kaede (the childhood friend), Nerine (Daughter of the lord of demons) , Shia (Daughter of the lord of the gods) have actual fan clubs at their school. Which incidentally provides for much of the humor in the series. There is less dramatic but equally obvious showing in Bleach. Inoue is shown to be the Diva in her school by Keigo, Kon, and even Karen. Within this scope of understanding we see that Inoue is beautiful, popular and by common consent just an all around good person. Fans compare this to Rukia’s rather abrasive manner and just can’t understand why any male would pick Rukia over Inoue.

Another point that should be looked at, is that realistically two people that have an amble amount of emotional baggage don’t tend to work well in a long term relationships. Fans point out that Ichigo and Rukia are messed up emotionally and that two people with this kind of cripple can’t communicate and change effectively. Fans point to Rukia recent out break in the current arc as an example. The fans comment that Rukia was scared to talk about the status of their relationship within the realm of a companionship. They say that if it was that difficult for Rukia to talk to Ichigo about their partnership/companionship, then how on earth can people plausibly believe that she would be able to talk about her real feelings? (If indeed she has them) In connection with this idea fans also point out that as the development of a character becomes more complex the harder it is to change the very nature of that character. In truth the more development that ichigo and Rukia’s relationship receives as a “friendship” the harder it will be to make that step into a romantic relationship. Giving Inoue’s fan all the more the hope that they won’t.

Another thing that fans really like about Ichigo and Inoue is how Inoue seems to bring out Ichigo’s gentle side. Ichigo is a badass known for kicking butt and taking no prisoners. The gentleness that Ichigo seems to exhibits when in Inoue’s presence coupled with the person’s understanding of Inoue’s affection seems to tell fans of this paring that Inoue’s love may not be as one side as people intend to imply. The fans often look to the now famous quote of Mammsuto (to Inoue) which says, “With out his (Ichigo’s) bond with you Ichigo can’t remain who he is” This on the outside may look like something that is just flippant however if one thinks about Ichigo’s ability especially his grown rate. Ichigo may be faced with the possiblity of giving in to his own power, or his inner hollow. Inoue’s ability to bring out his gentle side maybe just exactly what he needs to continue on the path of righteous.


2) Inoue has big boobs.
I know that this sounds idiotic; I know this, but I had to put this in for the sheer volume of people who had this response. Though sad when you think about it, it makes sense. Simca of Air Gear in a conversation with Ringo, of the same manga, said this “it is the natural for men to fondle large breasts” Ringo asks if she was implying that Ikki (the main male character who was passed out at the time) had by default picked her implying the girl with the bigger breasts would win. Simca doesn’t answer and whether this is what Simca was implying or not is not really known but the argument still has merit. Men far more then women are carnal creatures. It is also a well know fact that most guys like bigger breasts. Inoue has large breasts so of course when guys who read this manga are presented with the choice they are going to pick Inoue over Rukia. This has nothing to do with Ichigo, the story, or even with emotion. The mere fact is if that same guy was in a similar situation in real life; they would pick the girl with the bigger boobs. Plain and simple. I could go on but I have insulted your intelligence enough this evening.

3) Inoue loves ichigo

This is actually alot more straight forward then many people think. In chapter 237 (spoiler) Inoue is leaving in the hopes of keeping her friends alive because Aizen has taken an interest in her powers. She is allowed to say good bye to one person. Now after five years of hints Inoue says, “If i just had 5 lives to live, then I could be born in 5 different cities, and eat until my stomach is full 5 times and work at 5 different jobs, and 5 times........fall in love with the same person.” Now say what you want about inoue but from that point she went from a quirky comic relief to a force to be reckon with. It was noted many times and in many post that this was the true moment of realization for many fans. That confession, which is probably one of the most tender moments in Bleach, was what really cemented the fan’s affection for Inoue. She loves Ichigo. She truly does. In a situation like that fans just can’t understand why the author would go through so much trouble to develop a character if her affection was just going to be thrown by the way side. In the minds of fans, Inoue who was ever present but never acknowledged deserves Ichigo, and nothing less will due.

It should be noted that this is the type situation that tugs on the heart. Inoue showed people in that chapter that she was truly in love and truly vulnerable. Fans can relate to inoue in this aspect which probably accounts for her die hard following. Who hasn’t had a situation of anticipated unrequited love? No one likes to see someone suffering in a situation like that. This goes to the very core of the human condition. It’s human nature to sympathize and Inoue seems to embody many of the fans of bleach who may have suffered from something similar.

4) I really relate to Ichigo/Inoue

(See first post)

Reason people don’t like Inoue/Ichigo

1) Inoue’s pinning after ichigo

Ironically, the very thing that draws many people to Inoue also repulses others. This response is a very dominate few of the female fans of Bleach. The fans who don’t like this pairing feel that Inoue’s character revolves alittle too much around her love of Ichigo and her jealousy of Rukia. Fans feel that for Inoue to be a truly 3-d character that she needs some self reflection focusing on what makes her tick outside of Ichigo, because at this point we don’t know what makes her tick outside Ichigo. Inoue isn’t a strong character so people who are strong (especially women) don’t understand her pinning and depression when it comes to Ichigo. Strong women (the fans) if they liked a guy would take steps to make him theirs. Period. No, if, ands, buts, about it. These type of women (Jenn I’m referring to you) are the type of people who get up and go after what they want. They don’t support INoue because they can’t relate to her.

2) Ichigo doesn’t want Inoue

This is also a very simple reason. Fans point out that in almost 300 chapters ichigo has never shown any type of romantic affection for Inoue, and he should have a say in it. simple.

There you have guys. Tell me what you think. I will update when Renji/Rukia is done.

[Sinta]

Renji and Rukia

I just wanted to tell you all that I am on a mountain in Canada overlooking a snow covered forest setting while I am sitting next to a fire with a cup of hot cocoa. Life is good.

I know this suppose to be totally objective when it comes to sharing but it’s my post so I’m going to change the rules a bit. If you have problem with that. Well thats your own damn problem. Anyways, I gotta tell that i just love Renji I think he’s just cool. He’s seriously just chill you know what I’m saying. I have to tell you though even though I like the U.S dub his voice in english is SERIOUSLY gay I was very disappointed.

Ok back to the study, Renji out of these core five has probably had the second least amount of development when it comes to his character as a whole. (and it’s probably a toss up between him and Ishida) Which of course is to be expected. It should be noted that as the story gets father away from the main characters within the main story line that fans affections for a certain character or paring is going to be based more and more on the individual character development and the bonds fans create through that development. Renji is no different. What seems to attract people to Renji as a individual is both his appearance, he’s defiantly one of the more unique characters in Bleach, and his laid back disposition. People also like the way that he and Ichigo interact, their relationship has a very Gai/Kakashi feel to it. Best-friends and Rivals. Renji can also be very acute when it comes to understanding both Rukia, Ichigo and his othe friends. For example, while Renji is carrying Rukia away from the execution site during the Soul Society arc though separated for longest time Renji is instantly able to pick up on how Rukia is feeling. He does this again right after Inoue is captured. Renji knows exactly what Ichigo is thinking with a mere glance. Renji also shows emotional maturity and further established his understanding by acknowledging how deep Rukia’s bond with Ichigo is. Again while caring her, he doesn’t say “hey if you have problems lean on me focus on me....love me” (ok he wouldn't say that I just added that last part) He says “ichigo and I are here for you” it is very apparent that Renji is very adapt at reading and understanding Rukia.

Alas, arguments for Renji as a potential love interest for Rukia are few and far between these most common items brought in regards to Renji/Rukia

1) History, there is just so much.

This is the most common item brought up when discussing Renji and Rukia they just have so much history together. Most fans of this pairing do recognize the problem with this argument however. Fans understand having a very extensive history with one person can be both a blessing and a curse. The more time one’s relationship spends in one state. The harder it is to change it. That doesn’t necessarily mean that friends turned lovers can’t work. It can. I wrote a couple of another empirical papers while I was still an undergrad, one was on relationship prerequisites and indicators of future longevity in which I actually studied this exact topic. In short, these marriages/relationships tend to be the best type. Best friends who become involved appear to have a better initial understanding of one another, are more susceptible to change, and are more willing to work on it. All in all, Renji and Rukia if they decided to make that plunge would be great together.

There is common argument that is used both against Renji (and Ichigo) that Rukia’s and Renji (Ichigo’s) relationship is strictly platonic that there is nothing that could be considered romantic. What these fan don’t understand is that often the line between platonic and romantic love is very, very thin. Romantic love is merely a platonic love with a sexual component; the parties involved have to see each other as sexual beings. Furthermore this line that is drawn between romantic and platonic can be toppled with the simplest gesture. (though in anime it’s often dramatic like the classic “tripping and falling into a kiss” seriously who does that?) A platonic love can develop into romantic love with something as simple as cuddling on the couch, who hasn’t personally experienced this people? This is not a good reason for keeping Renji and Rukia apart.

Like every other paring however, Renji and Rukia have their “problems.” Critics and fans alike narrow it down to the time when Renji didn’t act when he needed to. He didn’t step up to the plate twice in fact which account for the reasons that people don’t really like this pairing.

Reasons that people don’t like Rukia/Renji

1) There isn’t anything in the way of sexual tension

Critics of this paring say that Renji and Rukia just don’t carry the sense of sexual tension that some of the other relationships have. (Rukia and Ichigo) For example, when Renji was carrying Rukia in his arms during the SS Arc there wasn’t a sense that he was protecting a lover but he was carrying out Ichigo’s order. (This is actually heavily debated) Furthermore then Rukia wanted to stay in Ichigo’s closest. He displayed either concern nor jealousy at the prospect. He left Rukia with Ichigo and didn’t seem to think twice about it.

2) No girl in Rukia’s situation would choose Renji over Ichigo (Renji didn’t act when he needed too)

This i probably the most convincing of the arguments against a relationship consisting of Rukia and Renji. Renji just didn’t act when Rukia needed him to. Rukia and Renji were together for the better part of 100 years. !00 Years is a damn long time to be with someone. One would think that if Rukia and Renji had real feelings for another then they might have acted upon them during one those cold nights in the outer districts. they didn’t however or at least don’t appear to and fans ask why. Another time when Renji needed to say something and didn’t is when Rukia was first inducted in the House of Kuckiki. Fans say that he wanted to tell her he loved her. Fans of this pairing also think that she wanted him to tell her he loved. But alas the exact argument to establish is the exact argument to destroy. The fact that Renji didn’t say anything when he should may have single handedly destroyed his chances of getting to that next stage.

Renji has a another problem when it comes to a romantic relationship with Rukia. His problem is in the form of Ichigo. Ichigo acted when no one else would. Not her brother, not Renji not any of the soul society goons. Though in his defense Renji did get it figured out. We don’t exactly know how long Rukia was suffering but it’s known that she lost her relationship with Renji when she was inducted as a noble and that she never had a relationship with her brother. She found relief in her love of Kaien but that was a double edge sword because he was married and she actually had to kill him. So when the story finally started Rukia was scarred emotionally to the point that she actually didn’t believe she was worth saving. There’s a lot of great things about Renji, he’s a great character, steady and reliable, but it was Ichigo that saved Rukia both physically and mentally. Ichigo and Ichigo alone.

3) Rukia hasn’t shown anything for Renji

Ultimately Renji suffers from the same fate as Inoue (as of this point in the manga) that Rukia just hasn’t shown any sort of romantic affection for him. In the Rukia/Ichigo post the fans argue that Ichigo and Rukia have a deep but platonic relationship. Critics of the Renji/Rukia relationship say that there is no way that a successful argument can be made for a romantic pairing of Renji/Rukia while trying to maintain that Rukia’s and ichigo’s is brotherly. Structurally parallelism is again used to paint this point. Like in the case of Ichigo, most people couldn’t really see Rukia confessing her love for Renji while ichigo was still around. (same problem inoue has)

Well guys there you have it. Sorry for the wait. My next post with be Ishida/Inoue. And remember to give feed back on the actual posts. i want to see the feedback for my research. Whether you hate or not. Just let me know.

[Sinta]

Ishida and Inoue

Merry Belated Christmas everyone! I am sorry that his update has taken so long. My daughter over the Christmas break had to go to the emergency room. Let me tell you it was loads of fun. To top it all off my adapter for my computer broke. How gay is that? Seriously. Anyway, this raps up my little study. I have a information on the others but I think theses are the summaries that people really want to read. Anyway, I hope all is well and I will get a lot of feedback on this thread. I should just tell you how much fun it was to do this. Thanks for reading and commenting.

Overview

With this summary we rap up what I like to call the Fab 5 (potential there are three different love triangles between Rukia, Inoue, Ichigo, Renji, and Ishida admittedly the only one that has the potential of becoming an effective love triangle is Rukia/Ichigo/Inoue) There is a lot of unanswered questions when it comes to Ishida. As a character many fans feel that he’s not really come into his own. In relation to his potential as a love interest of inoue, truth be told, desire of this pairing appears to stem more from the hope for a Rukia/Ichigo pairing then a active attachment to Inoue/Ishida. In other words, this pairing seems to be a bi-product more then the focus. Arguments for this pairing, like the Renji/Rukia pairing, are again few and far between. In retrospect the arguments that exist for Ishida/Inoue are even less advanced then the ones available for Rukia and Renji. These arguments tend to be very broad in nature, focusing on a specifically why Ishida is a better match for Inoue then Ichigo rather then why Ishida’s and Inoue’s specific relationship dynamic is so appealing.

Inoue’s Personality = Ishida’s Personality

This argument doesn’t necessarily imply that Ishida and Inoue are similar in their individual characteristics. This is not the case; not even close in fact. This argument revolves around how Ishida, unlike Ichigo, seems susceptible to Inoue’s rather quirky personality. (Look at their interaction in Soul Society Arc for example) Fans of this pairing, and correctly I might add, point out that it’s important for a couple to have the ability to adapt and change in relation to one another. Fans of this pairing say time and time again we have seen Ichigo’s ability to change Rukia and Rukia’s ability to change Ichigo. This is very obvious. These same fans point out that we have seen no such thing for Inoue in relationship to Ichigo on EITHER side. (Meaning that Ichigo hasn’t really changed Inoue nor as Inoue really changed Ichigo in any way) We have seen however, Inoue’s affect on Ishida, though realistically this perceived change is more of a general feeling then something tangible that can be pointed to and categorized.

Another reason that fans love this pairing so much revolves around fan’s visualization, and perceived negative results, of what would happen if there was an eventual relationship between Inoue and Ichigo. Ichigo is very abrasive in nature. He’s known for it. Fans of the Inoue/ Ishida pairing state that if ichigo and Inoue did get together that Ichigo would be constantly hurting Inoue’s feelings, maybe with even knowing it. Ichigo can’t help it. It’s part of who he is. These same fans often point to the early stages of the manga to show really how inconsiderate ichigo is of Inoue’s feelings. They refer to an early scene in the manga when Ichigo runs head on into Inoue and knocks her down, Ichgio being his classic self he just shrugs it off) Ishida, on the other hand, can read inoue with pinpoint accuracy. He is in fact so understanding he was able to discern exactly how Inoue is feeling by just watching her rather strained body language. (This is while Ichigo is fighting rukia’s brother in the SS Arc) There’s even more though, one of the main reasons that fans claim that Rukia and Ichigo are so perfect for each is their ability to see what each other needs and provide it. (Rukia snapping Ichigo out of his depression in the current arc is a great example) Ishida also exhibits this kind of advanced understanding in the already stated situation. Ishida perceives what it is Inoue really needs. What she really wants. What she is counting on. This of course is provided to us from Ishida’s monolog. What inoue really needs is for ichigo be alright. Ishida also exhibits maturity in the fact he realizes that there is nothing that he can do to help Inoue. That the only thing that can be done is to hope for Ichigo’s victory.

Inoue and Ishida are equals.

This argument again stems from a comparsion of ichigo and Ishida, or the relationship potential of Ichigo/Inoue and Ishida/Inoue. The fans that make this argument ask this simple question. Can people who have an “unequal relationship” have a truly healthy and long-lasting courtship? (The meaning of equal is often relative making this argument difficult but if you can come up with a functioning definition it makes the argument much more plausible) Answer: Yes, there are always exceptions to the rule, but it doesn’t happen very often. The empirical data backs this up. When people enter a relationship with a vast difference in their relative affection the components (the people in the relationship) hardly ever exhibit those characteristics that indicate a growing, health, long lasting relationship. Communication is especially difficult for these types of relationship. (And you don’t have to be a scientist to understand that communication is very important to the maintenance of a romantic endeavor) After the initial question the fans often follow up with a statement that most fans will agree with, Inoue and Ichigo are not equals. Ishida and Inoue however are. Why? Because Inoue doesn’t have a “superstar” complex when it comes to Ishida. In the eyes of Inoue at this time in the manga, Ichigo could really do no wrong. Strong, abrasive men often need a woman that is just as strong, if not stronger, and just as abrasive. These men need someone that will give them a good kick in the head when they derserve it. It has been shown that Ichigo is one of these people. The same fans also state that this is one of the reason that ichigo doesn’t see Inoue as a equal. This is something that she hasn’t been able to do. Ishida on the other hand, as was mentioned earlier is clearly attracted to Inoue and is both understanding and perceptive being able to determine what she needs, and when she needs. Furthermore, the only reason Ishida wasn’t able to provide what Inoue needed was because it revolved around ichigo. Fans often speculate that if Inoue didn’t have her fixation on ichigo that Ishida would be able to provide perfectly for all of Inoue’s emotional and romantic needs.

It goes back to Inoue not being able to deliver what ichigo needs. Knowing but not being able to deliver. Many people feel that in Ishida was given a chance that he would “complete” Inoue.



In this world of Beauties and the Greeks.

This is the classic argument that people give whenever they see a really hot girl and not so hot guy. The interesting thing about Ishida’s (like Ichigo’s) situation is that much of his social discord is self-induced. It is been said time and time again that ichigo puts up barriers to hide how really messed up emotionally he is. There isn’t, however, much discussion on Ishida who probably has similar emotional trauma and defense mechanisms. Ishida has almost no relationship with his freaky father. He watched his grandfather “murdered” in front of him. And he lives in a world where he thinks he can’t trust anyone. In light of this analysis it maybe a little easier to understand where his cold, calculating nature comes from. Another thing to note is really how ambiguous ishida’s relationship is with his other classmates. Notice that though he is aloof and cold that he is easily approachable and willing to help out. Keeping all this in mind when fans thing about the prospect of a “nerd” getting together with a “beauty” it gives those same fans the warm glow we get when finally realize that the hero is going to win. Essentially the reason this variable is so popular is because it gives appeasement to the side of all of us who wanted someone that we feel was totally out of our league. (An analysis of Inoue’s position has already been given. It is understood where she stands. She is a diva.) Inoue getting together with ishida would defiantly fall into the realm of Beauty and the Greek. And who doesn’t want the Greek to win?

There aren’t any real substantial arguments against ishida/inoue. At least there aren’t any that haven’t been given in pervious post. There are stupid ones like. “she is gay” or “he has glasses”, but those of us have at least a minimal amount of intelligence don’t give stupid arguments like this. There I decided not to include them in the results of the study

Well boys and girls I would just like to thank very one who read and posted again. It was a lot of fun. I thought I would take this time to let you all know who it is that I personally like seeing that it seems like it’s up for controversy. Are you ready…………………





Got ya!!!! Thanks again guys.

[Sinta]

I know what you are all probably thinking. “Why the hell is he making a new thread about Rukia and Inoue? Don’t we have a thread on this? The answer is yes, we do. I am writing this piece and making this new thread for three reasons. One, I have been studying my brains out for my law school exams and I’m tired of studying. Two, the other thread is getting out of control and I was hoping to get a fresh start on the whole debate. Three, this last reason is really the most important there are a few ideas that I wanted to share, and since my wife doesn’t watch bleach and I am stuck in my own novel you guys get to hear it. I want to look at this relationship dynamtic in a slightly different light. I wanted to compare and contrast the love triangle phenomena and apply those to the rules that I have formulated in my own writing experience. I also want to give and comprehensive summary of the interpersonal relationship substructure and how it plays in the story, this will led to an objective explanation for those of you are new to bleach and this debate. I apologize before hand for the length and assumptions that will be presented. I say unto you know now if you are bored and have NOTHING better to do feel free to read this. Otherwise if it’s a beautiful day your time would probably be used better doing something else.

So you kept reading I'm flattered. I will try not to bore you to much. I do think this is a very interesting topic that many people are drawn too. I was thinking about this the other day and I dont’ know if was that I had to much caffeine, or if the brilliance and idiocy of all your arguments concerning this subject just touched me but I was thinking about the whole Ichigo/Rukia/Inoue thing and I think the reason that people find this subject so interesting is because its one of the few things that is really still undecided as to the outcome of the story. Whoa. that’s deep. What is it that I mean by that? What I mean is that we know that Ichigo is gonna get uber strong. He is gonna kickass, take no prisoners and pass his exams. It’s going to happen. I don’t think anyone would argue that point. The matters of the heart however is very much still open, Rukia, Ichigo, Inoue are a one of the more cohesive yet subtle love triangles in anime. This topic is frustrating and interesting at the same time. I truly think that’s why when nothing cool is happening in the anime or the manga we always revert back to this topic. With that being said I want to make it clear that I don’t have an opinion about who he ends up with. That’s right boys and girls don’t give a crap. I will go more into this later. Lets get to our discussion.

What does it take for a successful love triangle? I have been beating my brain in trying to figure that out. The love triangle is something that they often use in anime and was something that I didn’t have much experience with it, discouraged by my lack of understanding I started watching as many animes as I could. Through my viewing experience and conversations with my wife, I was able to formulate four rules that are essential for the “successful” love triangle. Again this is my opinion feel free to disagree. So before we can move on to my rules of a effective love triangle there has to be a functioning definition.

Note: I am talking about a specific type of love triangle there are many kinds and many different types that are used for many different purposes. This is my definition of a successful love triangle.

An effective love triangle is one that gives a “realistic” interpersonal struggle between three legitimate romantic equals. Potentially (A+B) V (A+C)

Note: this type of love triangle generally cuts the fan population in half. People’s opinion has to do with how they relate to the characters. Tenjho Tenge is a good example. Maya or Aya for Nagi? There are tons of arguments either way, even if the characters are alot alike. I would go with Maya. Why? because I think that i would want a strong women like her. (actually I have one) They are both hot, rocking body all that good stuff. It just comes down to personal preference when you apply this to a love triangle. It doesn’t matter what Nagi wants because fans don’t base their pairings on what they think the main character wants but on what they want. Just go read the “oh Rukia Oh inoue” thread you will see this.

What do I mean by this definition? Why would this be a successful or effective love triangle? As a writer and story teller I needed some type of theoretical frame work to be able formulate and use an effective love triangle. This is a very subjective definition open to subjective frames of mind and emotion. This type of love triangle is in and of itself a story. I would say that most anime, manga, movies etc don’t use this type of love triangle because the relationship aspect of the story is secondary to the main plot line. I will discuss this later.

The best way I can explain the above definition so you understand MY frame of mind is to draw an analog of an effective love triangle to a equilateral triangle. For those of you who don’t know what that is stop reading because you won’t understand the rest of the post, and I’m not taking the time to explain what it is. With the idea of an equilateral triangle in mind you notice that all three angles are equal. The point is there is nothing to distinguish one angle from another. One main character (Ichigo) has two female love interests (Rukia, Inoue) both female leads have a legitimate opportunity be with the main character. I truely feel that this type of love triangle sparks the most debate and is the most fun to work with. I also feel that if the story is developed right then even though fans of individual characters might be upset at treatment of their favorite character, the one the fans wanted didn’t “win”, the fans will understand the point of story (or relationship) and how it applies to the overall theme.

Why is this so important to me? I know you probably are wondering this. I think it’s important because I think it might be able to help fans understand what has the potential to happen in Bleach and other stories with this type of interpersonal relationship. Furthermore it will give the people new to Bleach and anime a better understanding of the roles that our female leads play and what they possibly mean, or could mean, to ichigo.

I must admit that I do have a selfish reason for bringing this up I really want your comments because I am having something similar to this in my own story. It’s fantasy I was just wondering how it might be received so please if you disagree with me, feel free, if you hate it, alright but leave your comments this is all research.

[Sinta]

Ok on to the rules
Rule number one: Characters must receive equal treatment. Ok so what do i mean by this? Lets use an example. Hinata, Naruto and Sakura this is the example of how NOT to perform an effective love triangle. Why you might ask? Because as of right now, 330 chapters into the story, no one with an objective view point can make a real argument for Hinata. She’s a side character and has served her purpose.

Therefore Sub-rule (A): an effective long triangle can’t exist between two main characters and a side character.

Now not being the author of Naruto I can’t say with absolute certainty that Hinata won’t come into the story. I can’t but it’s very hard when Sakura gets as much panel time as she does. Hinata just doesn’t have the development needed to give her a real shot at Naruto’s heart. Any future relationship (as of right now in the story) would be seen as forced and undeveloped leaving a very bad taste in the mouths of those who are reading. The author could correct this. But this late in the manga it would be difficult.

Rule number two: The two female or male love interest must both have a real opportunity to make a play for the main characters heart. One side affection doesn’t give rise to an effective play for the main character, whether they be girl or guy, the main character must show some sort of romantic affection for both characters. Full metal Panic is good example, Sagara doesn’t show any real romantic affection towards Tessa, if any of you are Tessa fans out there I apologize, but he doesn’t. As a matter of fact In FMP the second raid Tessa has a mini break down and Sagara does nothing to even comfort her let alone ease her fears. This is another case where no one (who isn’t a fan boy) can make a real argument for a potential relationship between Sagara and tessa though her chances are better then Hinata’s from Naruto. This rule is something that is very easy to speculate on in retrospect however this element of the love triangle takes time and should probably be avoided for most of the series. This element can be very frustrating because of the way that most people develop a love triangle. The elements of each relationship are often developed seperately and in pieces focusing on one or the another of the loves interests. Again is retrospect something that is used in this case and is a big help.

[Sinta]

Note: Rule 3 and 4 are really tools of analysis, not actual rules. Use these to determine if there is really a love triangle.

Rule Number three: The relationship in context of the actual story compared to the overall reason or plot value of the relationship. This rule is often overlooked by people especially in Shonen manga where the relationship aspect of the story is often over shadowed by the action sequences. In a story like peach girl, where the main focus of the story is the relationship itself and that relationship’s external and internal interplay the complexities of the love triangle can be both obvious and exggerated. why? Because that creates drama. And girls love drama; guys don’t care about that crap (generally) This is essential if you going to understand action manga’s like Bleach and Naruto. The love triangle in bleach (if there truely is one, we’ll discuss this later in detail) the relationship development and basis for the potential triangle was so subdued and contextual that its hard to even examine it with any sort of objective view point. Even those of us who don’t really care who the main character ends up with eventually have to make a choice of which character they like and make a choice based on that. The love triangle in Bleach may or may not have intrinsic value to the overall plot.

Lets look at Tenjiho Tenge as an example, I know this is a difficult manga to use because it’s so hard to understand but my point is perfectly illustrated in it. So forgive me. when you examine Nagi’s part in the manga. He was the potential to became the Flying Danger (or Heavenly Dragon, this is someone who is good; you become the Flying Dragon by finding someone to protect) or Nagi could become the Black Dragon (an being of evil that fights for the hell of it) He has fallen in love with Maya and is willing to protect her but is she the reason he wants to get stronger? Will he be able to overcome his angry? What about Aya? Will she become one who fights for the one that she loves or will her power run away with her? You get the point. In Tenjho Tenge the love triangle (it’s more like a Chain but I won’t get into that here) has greater value to the plot so there is more in the way of development. The feelings and development of the triangle components (Maya, Aya, Nagi) are more realistic in their scope. There are hurt feelings and contentions. Why? Again because the contention and dynamtic of the relationship further develops the plot. (in a way at least) This is a important element that you must look at when you trying to examine the couple question.

Note: If there is a real active love triangle, one character isn't going to have a great deal more plot potential then another.

Rule Four: The main girl/guy almost always wins. Sorry boys and girls this is the rule not the exception. Hinata, Tessa, Kikkyo really don’t have a chance. This rule is actually more important then people think. If you notice the first two rules about equal time and treatment, and equal opportunity to win the main characters heart. This fourth rule really shows that in all actuality there are very few stories with a truely equal love triangle. Some stories get close. Onegi Twins is a pretty good one. There is equal treatment among the love interest the story revolves around the love triangle so there can be alot of focus on it. In a story like Bleach end less the main girl position (Rukia) is “taken over” it’s very hard to give the second female/male love interest a legitamate opportunity at the main character. I know that many people see these stories as worlds unto themselves. If you don’t believe just go to the Naruto forum and look up threads on Itachi or Kabuto. The “plot no justsu” is often used as an explanation as to why something happens, meaning that if the characters existed outside their creators respective minds that something different would happen from what the author says happens. “If the author would have let him Itachi would have killed Jiriaya when Itachi came for Naruto” This is what people say to explain why their favorite character lost etc. It isn’t any different when comes to loves interest. This entire world is in the mind of one person. He is like the god of that world. He sees past, present and future. Thats why i never comment on an incomplete story. I don’t know what’s going to happen so how can I comment on the story as a whole? Don’t get me wrong some animes make me really mad. I get really upset when a paring comes out of nowhere with little development and no believeability. But the point of this rule is this. The main character is usaslly the favorite character of the author and his main love interest is usaslly right up there with him ( or her). Thats why they are the main characters. With this in mind it’s not hard to see why they would, for the most part, end up together.

This point about the main girl and guys is very driven to the point of stupid. Canvas 2 and DC Da Capo are both examples of this. The main character (female) in both of those animes shouldn’t have, in my humble opinion, ended up with the guy. Sorry they just shouldn’t have. I won’t bore you with an analysis of theses animes this is long enough. But if you want to see how a love triangle shouldn’t be done. Watch these. Horrible. It just goes to show this rule has alot of merit contrary to popular believe.

Well those are the rules lets recap:
1. Rule number one: Characters must receive equal treatment.
2. Rule number two: The two female or male love interest must both have a real opportunity to make a play for the main characters heart
3. Rule Number three: Which relationship has greater value in context of the actual story.
4. Rule Four: The main girl/guy almost always wins.
Well add this as a sub rule: all these elements have to occur
concurrently.

Now how does Bleach fall into this format. I think you can comes to your own conclusions but this is how I see it. I don’t think this is a real functioning love triangle YET. I do see the potential for a real love triangle.
Lets look at each rule.

1. So do Rukia and Inoue get equal treatment through out the anime and manga?

Answer: no not even close. But it is getting better. Inoue was a secondary character for the longest time more suited for comic relief then anything. The entire Soul Society was about Rukia and Ichigo. Ichigo and Inoue weren’t even together for most of the time. You gain insight into how Inoue feels but Ichigo is very focused on Rukia. They (Rukia and Ichigo) share some very tender moments. I will discuss this later. They share some very tender moments. They are important to each other blah blah blah. You get the picture.
I would say that currently the author trying very hard to develop Inoue to a legitimate love interest for Ichigo though maybe not doing a very good job. Inoue’s panel time has gone up, as has her inner monolog. I will discuss Inoue’s character in detail later so I don’t want to do it here. Suffice to say that there is a real chance a functioning love triangle however we don’t really have one yet.

2. As of right now Do you think that Inoue and Rukia both have a real shot at Ichigo?

Answer: I would say yes. Merely because of as of right now Ichigo and Rukia are too chicken to discuss their relationship and Inoue is too scared to tell Ichigo how she feels. In real life a simple confession from Inoue could do it for Ichigo. Shes a hottie with a naughty body right? What guy wouldn’t want her? but this isn’t real life. its not going to be a simple matter of making a confession though some of you hope it would. Rukia and Ichigo probably aren’t going to discuss their relationship either so to tell you the truth I don’t know what is going to happen. Lets just say that Ichigo has got options.

3. As of right now in the manga who’s relationship has greater value to the overall plot?

I would say Rukia. To be completely honest Inoue could have been taken out of the manga about right up until the time she got captured, and that just the way it is. Rukia gave ichigo his powers and their core relationship has always been paramount to the story. Now this doesn’t necessary mean that Inoue couldn’t become more important to the story but the author would have to do something to offset the importance of Rukia and Ichigo’s relationship. (Finding out that Ichigo is the re-incarnation of Kaien and Inoue was the re-incarnation of this wife now that would do it i think. They were destine to love one another blah blah blah) But again, has of right now Rukia’s relationship with Ichigo does much more to further the plot (I do think that is wavering though). In addition, i think that a romantic relationship between ichigo and Rukia would be far more interesting then one between Inoue and Ichigo but I digress

4. I’m not going to comment on this one because i’m pretty sure that this is a no brainer if you want to argue that Inoue is the main female lead as of right now. You are an idiot. yes, an idiot.

[Sinta]

Well there you have it. Conclusion There is a lot of potential when it comes to the evolution of the a real working love triangle. I would say that we are close to having one and that’s really why there has been so much development of Inoue’s character in the recent arc. The last about 70 chapters have just been great story telling. We get further development of Inoue, Ichigo and Rukia all in a very subtle way all why keeping subcontextual We will just have to see what happens.

I would like to note that many love triangles are between a male and female lead and a secondary character. Hinata from Naruto, Kikkyo from Inu Yasha, Tessa from Full Metal Panic theses are all secondary characters. I think this type of relationship is used to fuel the relationship between the main potential couple (maybe not in the case of Naruto, Hinata has just kind of fallen to the way side) but it’s totally like that in the case of the other two. Both Tessa and kikkyo are used as an instrument to further the main couples relationship (and add some humor). I think this I could see this happening in Bleach. Inoue being used as an instrument for the further development of Ichigo and Rukia. I would dare say that’s what is happening. The development of Inoue’s character as of late has been focused on her love of Ichigo and her jealously of Rukia. I can see Ichigo coming to Inoue ready to save her all while she is thinking how happy she is to see him and how much she cares but then she sees Rukia. How does she react? Will Ichigo and Rukia notice? I could see something like happening. I really could. Will it? Don’t know. but it’s totally possible.

This is post marked. I am working on a comprehesive summary of characterizations including emotional and romantic profile. Is that something that you would be interested in reading. (This would include a discussion of chapter citiation)

[Zu Ra]

Originally Posted by Sinta

Renji and Rukia

I had the same opnion as you earlier Renji being a dork when it came to emergency or situation demanded of him ... Well I didnt have too much of respect towards Renji the chara . Now too I dont have much but after reading the special ed issue 1 new light was shed on his chracter ... Renji has feelings towards Rukia and the hostility shown towards Ichigo and Rukia during Rukia Retreival was pure Jealousy

Spoiler for Manga Special Ed 1:

Renji's feelings are shown here if Rukia has feelings towards him unknown ... This further explains Ikkaku and Renji's relationship

[Zu Ra]

IMHO this thread should be merged with Empharical study ..... There are already two threads discussing Pairings in Bleach + Empherical .

Mod Please Note

[epyon96]

LoLz. This is perhaps one of the best written piece on anime analysis I seen in a long time. Congratulations. The only concern I have is that it is difficult to have a discussion with such a long post for obvious reasons.

EPYON

[Sinta]

Originally Posted by epyon96

LoLz. This is perhaps one of the best written piece on anime analysis I seen in a long time. Congratulations. The only concern I have is that it is difficult to have a discussion with such a long post for obvious reasons.

EPYON

I totally understand. You can just give general feelings you don't have to quote and response.

[EfrainMan]

Originally Posted by Sinta

The main character is usually the favorite character of the author and his main love interest is usaslly right up there with him (or her). Thats why they are the main characters.

Not a big thing because you qualified the statement with "usually," but I would like to point out that Kishimoto has stated that his favorite character isn't Naruto but Sasuke. Except for the fact that Naruto and Hinata have had almost NO interaction since the Chuunin Exams, this would have thrown a wrench into the "the leads end up together" norm for this series.

But that's Naruto, and we're talking Bleach

BTW, I consider myself to be one of those who liked Inoue/Ishida because I liked them together, not becase it makes it easier for Rukia/Ichigo. Although I do like that pairing, I never considered Inoue/Ichigo at the time because at first I wasn't able to catch the not_that_subtle_but_subtler_than_most_in_this_genr e hints that Inoue liked Ichigo. I like Rukia/Ichigo because they work so well and are so cute together. And I liked Inoue/Ishida because they really seemed to click in the SS arc. And I love how Inoue is rubbing off on him ^_^ I wasn't fully aware of how much Inoue loves Ichigo until the recent arc. And you know what, I like Inoue/Ichigo, too.

[Sinta]

Originally Posted by EfrainMan

Not a big thing because you qualified the statement with "usually," but I would like to point out that Kishimoto has stated that his favorite character isn't Naruto but Sasuke. Except for the fact that Naruto and Hinata have had almost NO interaction since the Chuunin Exams, this would have thrown a wrench into the "the leads end up together" norm for this series.

But that's Naruto, and we're talking Bleach

BTW, I consider myself to be one of those who liked Inoue/Ishida because I liked them together, not becase it makes it easier for Rukia/Ichigo. Although I do like that pairing, I never considered Inoue/Ichigo at the time because at first I wasn't able to catch the not_that_subtle_but_subtler_than_most_in_this_genr e hints that Inoue liked Ichigo. I like Rukia/Ichigo because they work so well and are so cute together. And I liked Inoue/Ishida because they really seemed to click in the SS arc. And I love how Inoue is rubbing off on him ^_^ I wasn't fully aware of how much Inoue loves Ichigo until the recent arc. And you know what, I like Inoue/Ichigo, too.

Actually I read that but if you look at recent interviews that has changed back to naruto.

you are among the many people who really don't have a perference, or it changes all the time. I think that's the best way to be then you won't be disappointed.

[EfrainMan]

Originally Posted by Sinta

Actually I read that but if you look at recent interviews that has changed back to naruto.

I did not know that.

Originally Posted by Sinta

You are among the many people who really don't have a perference, or it changes all the time. I think that's the best way to be then you won't be disappointed.

I've always been a fan of *believable* pairings. For example, Faramir and Eowyn in LotR. I was liek...huh? Those are the pairings I hate.

That's not to say I don't like crack pairings, but that's fanwork. When the canon does something like that, it sucks. Right now, I can't wait to see the pairings drama that I REALLY hope comes from this arc. I know it's shounen, but I've seen more of this kind of drama from Bleach than many other shounen series. It's like, come for the action, stay for the drama Hopefully the author won't cop out. As it stands, I still like Rukia/Ichigo more, unless he has some realization during this arc of how much Inoue means to him. Either that or he's already had it (I mean, did you see his face when he heard they got her?). The point is, I can't wait

[onepiecelover]

Wow this is one of the best anylsis in this forum history (welll as long as I have seen it ) I just wish it was more condensed ( for obvious reasons) I read more than half of it and then gave up

[EfrainMan]

Originally Posted by onepiecelover

Wow this is one of the best anylsis in this forum history (welll as long as I have seen it ) I just wish it was more condensed ( for obvious reasons) I read more than half of it and then gave up

[Sinta]

Originally Posted by onepiecelover

Wow this is one of the best anylsis in this forum history (welll as long as I have seen it ) I just wish it was more condensed ( for obvious reasons) I read more than half of it and then gave up

That why I put them in two different threads earilir but the mods thought they should be put together. I know it's really long maybe I should do a guide


Edit: I did a guide. Just read what you want to

[onepiecelover]

Oh please dont be disheartened by a retarded comment like mine, I loved whatever I read ^_^ and efrainman I actually read more than half of the guide it was bigger than any term paper I have ever written