2011-03-08, 20:04 | Link #1605 | |
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The problem with Homura is that her personality is all over the place. Yeah, she completely broke down in episode 8 when she barely stopped Madoka from making a contract, but she always barely stops Madoka from making a contract.
And I would probably find the absurdity of her episode 8 breakdown more forgivable if it actually led to something. Once the cat's out of the bag (pun possibly intended depending on Homura's exact origin), you need to follow up and explain what the hell is going on. In spite of this, Homura is immediately back in her "icy bitch" persona in episode 9 as if her earlier outburst never even happened. This doesn't make her look more mysterious or show that her personality is multi-faceted. It only makes her breakdown all the more random and nonsensical. Furthermore, we're supposed to believe that Homura is soooo worried about Madoka cursing herself and putting herself through hell that Homura completely throws herself to the ground wailing in episode 8, but she doesn't give the slightest crap about Madoka's emotional state upon seeing lifeless corpse of her best friend one episode later. Instead she goes "herp derp I'M MYSTERIOUS," walks away, and allows QB go to Madoka's room and try to form a contract AGAIN. Even in the context of "Homura doesn't care about anyone but Madoka," this makes no sense. Quote:
His explanation about entropy and aliens was complete bull specifically DESIGNED to be so complicated it would go over the average teenager's head. It provides a reason for his actions up to that point while providing a clump of irrelevant information to hide his true motives. He made up some gibberish so Madoka would spend all of her effort simply trying to understand his fake plan rather than think about what he may really want. If he had provided no explanation at all and never went to Madoka's room, Madoka would be left to think about whether or not he intentionally deceived Sayaka into getting killed, which would cause Madoka to build doubt against him, which would ultimately make his job harder. Last edited by Hagoshod; 2011-03-08 at 20:23. |
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2011-03-08, 20:05 | Link #1606 | |
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I'm sorry but I'm not going to rehash my opinions again, just to make you happy. It's fine if you don't find what you want in the show, but don't expect everyone else to cater to your demands for answers either.
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2011-03-08, 20:09 | Link #1607 | |
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And from taking a pure sociological view, sometimes being harsh and cold are needed to get people to move in a positive manner. (Sometimes the opposite is true... it kind depends on the situation) |
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2011-03-08, 20:15 | Link #1608 | |||||||
Crossdressing Menmatic
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Homura, whether she wanted to or not, has made Madoka feel helpless and distraught. Homura seems like a cold, cruel character for the first seven episodes. Her lack of emotion has that effect on people; Sayaka was not particularly happy with the way Homura was treating Madoka. Quote:
I can only suggest that you attempt to see it from another person's point of view... some people enjoy watching the characters develop with a consistent, linear progression. Homura was more of a steep drop in personality. Quote:
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You should read the rest of my post; I defend Sayaka's sudden change. Quote:
He simply felt that the story was poorly conceived, and passionately stabbed it with the knife of critique. Quote:
This is a review of an episode... inevitably, some things will change because the author has not seen the whole season. I have to ask: Should the author ignore unenjoyable inconsistencies now because it might be addressed later? Even if Homura has some awesome reason for being a total jerk to Madoka, the damage has been done. The reviewer is definitely angry at the plot of episode 8. In the time frame of that episode, the inconsistency negatively affected his viewing experience. |
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2011-03-08, 20:42 | Link #1609 | ||||
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I think that's why she's so appallingly cold towards Madoka in the immediate aftermath of Mami's death, and during the presentation of Sayaka's lifeless body. She doesn't want Madoka to be comforted during these moments, she wants Madoka to be so traumatized by them that she'll be too scared to even consider entering into this magical girl world as a magical girl herself. It's a harsh, harsh approach, and I honestly question it at a sheer pragmatic level. But I think it's mostly a case of Homura playing a role, assuming a mask if you will. Seeing Madoka come one word away from contracting with Kyubey in Episode 8 was simply the breaking point for Homura. She couldn't keep up the act during that moment, and hence the mask was temporarily taken off, and Homura's love for Madoka just poured out unrestrained. But once Homura got her emotions under control again, she put the mask back on, and continued on anew. It's not that strange. I've seen the same sort of thing from Batman/Bruce Wayne, particularly in the Timmverse. If Batman was a magical girl, he would basically be Homura. Quote:
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2011-03-08, 20:47 | Link #1610 | ||||||||
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As for the kindred spirit thing, sure I guess they could have thrown in more scenes. They didn't but I do realize that many viewers have a difficult time watching for context and subtext as opposed to just being shown everything in a literal and blatant fashion. The actions she took and the meaning of her words allowed me to figure out her change in character enough for me to be satisfied. I can't pretend to project that on anyone else, but it's not my problem either. If I'm outlining my reasons why I believe something, and support it with facts from the show, and someone digs into their view and says "yeah but I still don't see it", then turns it back on me as if I'm just pulling it out of my ass, what am I supposed to do? Quote:
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I can agree with the second one, but only to the point that I don't go on a angst filled "review" of why I hate the show now because something doesn't add up or happen the way I expect it to go. I've mentioned before that there are some issues with inconsistencies and the like, not even a few pages back. I explicitly stated that this was a story that cannot work without them. If that offends the minds of people who expect logical, methodical plot progression where everything is spelled out for them, oh well.
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2011-03-08, 20:54 | Link #1611 | ||||
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Ah,there's drama in this thread,roriconfan must be around (and no I'm not hatin',I can't hate on someone that likes Dennou Coil and Panty & Stocking)
And before someone asks,yes,I enjoy replying to roriconfan,let me have my fun.thanks. Quote:
Where to begin,first up it seems you're quite confused. When completely darkened,the soul gem transforms into a grief seed that hatches and gives birth to a witch,that's what happened to Sayaka.All witches will drop grief seeds,if it doesn't drop a grief seed then it's a familiar not a witch. Witches don't have soul gems,they have grief seeds,if a magical girl becomes a witch her soul gem becomes her grief seed. Where do the soul gems of dead magical girls go? Well a magical girl can't die unless her soulgem is destroyed so if the girl is dead then there's no soulgem to worry about. Quote:
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In any case she thought she couldn't be of any use to Homura against the big boss,that's one of the last things she told Homura.So her thought process didn't go "I don't care about helping against the boss,screw all this" but "Looks like I won't be of real use against the big boss,Homura is better off without me". Quote:
That is of course if QB can actually grant you any wish,some say he's lying,we won't know for sure until the end of the show.
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2011-03-08, 22:01 | Link #1612 | |
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To the Greek: since I believe that you write in your free time, write a Madoka fixfic, and besides, not everyone has seen LOGH.
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Regarding some of those review blogs, well, not all of them are considered reliable sources of information.
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2011-03-08, 22:13 | Link #1613 | ||
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Sometimes people making deliberate long rants and critical analysis about the series is actually a good thing: Quote:
Last edited by MaiNoKen; 2011-03-08 at 22:24. |
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2011-03-08, 22:48 | Link #1614 | ||||||||
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I personally disagree with everything the reviewer said, but I do not think all this hate is warranted on someone who was just expressing his true feelings. The reviewer was a staunch fan of Madoka up to episode 7, so that episode really struck some chords within him. I am merely trying to understand his feelings. One way to do that is to pretend I'm him, and argue from his point of view. Hopefully, some of the dislike will be lessened if his perspective is rephrased in a more... neutral manner.
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Yet I cannot speak for someone else. This reviewer may think in only one, narrow-minded way, but it's an interesting way, one different from most others. I think your criticism of him is fair, and I might be giving his opinion far too much credit. Still, I want to be open to other ideas. |
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2011-03-08, 23:33 | Link #1616 | ||||||||||
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2011-03-08, 23:49 | Link #1617 |
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Kyoko wants to kill a person, and displays extreme and open contempt and cruelty towards that person, for two episodes.
Then over the next three episodes, she actively tries to save the life of that very same person, and shows extreme compassion and affection for that person. I mean... is it really that hard for people to see how this is a big issue for some viewers? How it's not exactly easy to swallow character development? I've seen love turn quickly to hate (i.e. spurned love will often do this), but I've very rarely seen hate turn quickly to love. Nobody else here finds this odd in the least? I mean, really? Do you honestly disagree with the reviewer on this point, Deconstructor?
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2011-03-09 at 00:06. |
2011-03-09, 00:09 | Link #1618 |
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Yep. I was like "whoa @ this massive sudden change of character" Even though the things Kyoko learned was completely severe, the cynical may even view this as character derailment contrived to create a tragic event and leading them helpless for the night with the uber witch.
Aka, bullshit.
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2011-03-09, 00:21 | Link #1619 | ||
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My stance is that Kyoko has forgotten how to interact socially like a normal human being. She did not have any friends for a long, long time. So it is natural for Kyoko to assault Sayaka and talk about Grief Seeds - that is all Kyoko has been doing for most of her life. Kyoko gave Sayaka the chance to escape, and let the witch's familiar feed on the innocent. It was Sayaka who decided to stand up and fight. At that point, Kyoko tried to communicate with Sayaka by force - either stay out of her way or die by her spear. After the Soul Gem realization, Kyoko realized it was Puella Magi versus Kyubey. Kyoko still held onto her cynicism, but tried giving a speech to Sayaka instead of using brute force. This is adequate development for me; it was clear Kyoko was trying to be friends with Sayaka. Then, she saves Sayaka from the witch. I would call that act inconsistent, but it is reasonable given Kyoko's progression toward friendship. Kyoko saves Sayaka once again, this time from Homura. Then, she watches in terror as Sayaka turns into a witch. Finally, Kyoko befriends Madoka and goes to save Sayaka. And she dies to save Sayaka. Looking back at that timeline, there is a nice linear path of events. At each step, I see Kyoko's ice heart slowly melting. Even at the beginning, I don't think Kyoko was actively interested in killing Sayaka... Sayaka was just in the way. Battling was all Kyoko knew how to do, and the way she used to talk to people. |
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2011-03-09, 00:21 | Link #1620 | |
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despair, hope, madoka magica, magical girl, urobuchi gen |
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