2014-09-20, 21:40
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Link #34561 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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I always took it as a game written to remind Ange that her family could all potentially be nice people who might one day repent. However, I would say it's all about as likely as Battler being bought off by the culprit. Potentially true, but out of character for who these people are at this time
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2014-09-23, 15:44
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Link #34562 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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More than potentially true, but out of character I'll say impossible under those circumstances. Kinzo is dead and Beatrice, Kanon and Shannon aren't 3 separate people.
Due to this, that setting couldn't happen in 1986. Yasu reached 1986 bitter and depressed, Krauss and Natsuhi had to hid Kinzo's death and the siblings, who didn't receive Kinzo's help in 1985, are in worse troubles by 1986 and suspect Krauss and Natsuhi to hid Kinzo's death. Battler's tale will always stay impossible. However if the tale, despite representing anyone "nice", had included dead Kinzo and bitter and depressed Yasu, it could have been possible. If the siblings had worked together to find an agreement to help each other instead than trick/blackmail each other they could have manage good relations in 1986. If someone had realized how bad Yasu was feeling and had extended toward her a helping hand maybe she too could have been saved. A good setting was possible. Just not Battler's. Battler made it too perfect so that it became impossible. |
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2014-10-24, 10:35
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Link #34564 |
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貴方が私のマスターか？
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Georgia, Tbilisi
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It is quite saddening. I'm replaying the first episode at the moment and it feels really nostalgic.
I wish to see this board alive again. Maybe if an anime adaptation is announced in the near future? One can only hope. |
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2014-10-25, 07:44
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Link #34567 | |||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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The fact that the series is given as retired on the board also works to hamper the interest of new members so... Quote:
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2014-10-26, 15:12
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Link #34569 | ||
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Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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With so many things having already been discussed plus the board being retired so that new people most likely won't see it, discussion is a little inhibited. But I think there's still potential to have fun talking about the series, and not only because of the new manga material. Personally I've been spending a lot of time on Umineko lately, though it's been on vidding and working on my fan game.
I was a little worried for a while that maybe people who knew spoilers were no longer posting them here, so it's a relief to know that there just weren't any spoilers available to post until now! I think there's some potential for playing alternative-solution games for the game boards. I know some people have already played around with those, but I got to the Umineko fandom pretty late and never really did, and it looked like fun, so I'm jealous. Though, now that there's so much more available read text, it does make alternative theories harder. Maybe we could tweak those a bit in order to give extra room, or appoint somebody "game master" and have to defend their solution for the gameboard using blue and red. We'd just need to define a good, workable set of rules. Quote:
As the series goes on, I just like Erika more and more. She's incredible villain material. The fact that ep 8's re-write in the manga means that she gets a serious showdown with Battler is so good. Quote:
I can't find the post any more, so perhaps it was the one that Dr. Casey deleted earlier, but I'm sure I saw a post a while ago which was talking about some sort of new 7th Expansion project involving multiple series including Umineko. There was a screencap showing several characters, including Beatrice. I can't be sure that it's a real project and not a hoax, but if it' true it definitely sounds fun. It's probably more like a bonus game than a big project. |
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2014-10-27, 11:08
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Link #34570 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Germany
Age: 39
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Sorry everyone
 I was so slumped with work that I didn't even remember to properly update the translations for new chapters. Now that I had some days off work because of a cold, I had some time being confined to my room....so here are translations for the last four chapters 27-30 Spoiler for Chapter 27:
Spoiler for Chapter 28:
Spoiler for Chapter 29:
Spoiler for Chapter 30:
There's not that much new content in terms of text, so it might seem a little boring, but the lines of mere goats now being given to black phantoms is kind of a cool idea and (again) there have been lots of new visual aspects to the story that make the manga-version of EP8 so much more enjoyable to me. Last edited by haguruma; 2014-10-27 at 11:21. |
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2014-10-27, 16:50
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Link #34571 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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I liked that forgery... Really, the manga makes everything so much better... |
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2014-10-30, 17:38
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Link #34572 |
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Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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Thank you so much for posting that translation, Haguruma! (Sorry to hear you got sick with a cold, though. Hope you're all better now.) It may not have a lot of new things but it's really interesting to see the changes that have been made for the manga. It's really too bad that the VN ended up so rushed.
In these chapters, I like the inclusion of the culprit theory phantoms a lot. It helps to clarify a couple of things. I think the additions I like most about the manga adaptation in general are the Erika things and the the scene with Rosa and Maria during the party games, where Rosa realises that in some ways she's treated Maria similarly to the way she was treated as a child. That scene gave the feeling that maybe Rosa could realise her faults and change...Well, it was the sanitised and nice version of the group as per Battler's design, so it might not mean much, but I think it ought to mean that the potential was there. I've got a tiny question about the layout of the mansion. Is it correct that there is only one staircase leading up to the higher floors of the mansion? At one point I had the feeling there might be two, but I haven't been able to find any evidence of there being more, so I think it's only one. They probably don't have a dumbwaiter either, so people should only be able to carry things between floors in person. It's a good setup for the locked room murder mysteries that Beatrice likes, I suppose, with the exception that it's possible to get in through the windows at least if you have a ladder. |
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2014-11-02, 19:36
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Link #34573 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
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Hello, long-time lurker here. I thank for the translation of the manga.
I like the alternate solution how Battler and Kanon escaped (and died) from the closed room with respecting the red truths. I would to like some opinions. E:The only chance Battler had to escape was after I broke the seals. To be even more specific, he had no chance to escape except for the time I was in the bathroom. This means that Erika destroyed at least two seals whose aren't specified. The seal on the guest room is counted as one and on the windows there are multiple ones. Which seal(s) is destroyed by Erika besides the one on the door and the windows? This gap could be interpreted as an escape.... Erika sealed an entrance to the guest room which she didn't mentioned. After rescuing Battler, Kanon go through it and hide in that place. Kanon is in that place which isn't counted as the guest room. This place is only connected to the guestroom. It's not the hallway. Of course she hadn't sealed the other side and couldn't rediscover it because it was hid and her map has some mistakes. |
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2014-11-02, 20:32
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Link #34574 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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Hello, it's been awhile since I've posted. I recently came back from Japan and bought over $150 worth of Umineko manga to complete my collection. I stumbled upon these two though:
うみねこのなく頃に紫 Forgery of the Purple Logic Umineko no naku koro ni Murasaki Forgery of the Purple Logic Seems like a brand new story too, with a pretty interesting setting:
A pretty interesting beginning, with Kinzo alive, and the Shkannon mechanic unavailable to be used. So something else is at play, although the siblings fight is certainly alive and well. Spoiler for First Twilight:
It's pretty nice coming back to the Umineko world after a few years. I hope they can do more of these kinds of stories. After all, 07th Expansion, just released a new Higuarshi story, so it's not out of the question. By the way, if you guys want to spend less on manga and not carry a heavy paper collection, a lot of mangas seem to be available now there, including these two. Volume 1 Volume 2 It's possible to buy Kindle manga from Amazon.co.jp if you sign up with a new account, and post an address in Japan. (I'm still using my hotel in Japan, I just gotta be absolutely sure never to buy anything physical.) You need to set the account to be in Japan, but you can use your own credit card to buy, as well as your own devices. I've been using my Canadian credit card, plus my two android devices here to buy, download and read Kindle manga. |
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2014-11-02, 20:49
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Link #34575 |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Hello again everyone.
I appeared here half a year ago to argue against Shkannontrice, and then disappeared without a trace. Sorry to everyone who wrote me and didn't get an answer. Anyway, I'm here again to argue for the same thing, but maybe from a different angle. What I realized last time is that no matter what contradictions I highlight in Shkannon theory, noone is going to consider them seriously unless I also present an alternative theory which "explains everything". And I'm going to do it, or at least try. I've actually changed my mind on a lot of things I said earlier, for example I don't think anymore that manga is not canon. It doesn't actually contradict other theories in the slightest. So, yes, I know there is this thing called "Confession of the Golden Witch", but it doesn't prove anything because it doesn't contain a detective or red truth, in other words it's contents may be falsified by the gamemaster. And so you know, I didn't read manga fully, so if you want to claim that something has been proven in manga, at least provide the number of the page where to look for this proof. It may seem strange for me to propose a theory when I haven't read manga, but that way it's more interesting. After all if the explanations given in manga are so good and non-contradictory, you shouldn't have any problems disproving my points. So, my theory is a combination of Rosatrice theory by KnownNoMore, and Jessicatrice theory and makes much more sense together. Here's an overview: Killers are Jessica,Rosa and George. Of the three mentioned Jessica is the mastermind. In all 4 of original games she fulfills her plan, survives until the end, and leaves the island. Rosa and Jessica are both Beatrices. The older one and the younger one. They both have lived for a long time on the island, they both were raised without love, and they both have read black magic books in Kinzo's library. They both dress as Beatrice at different times. Rosa is Beatrice in classical dress in games 1 and 3. Jessica is Beatrice in miniskirt in games 2 and 4. Rosa is Beatrice who appeared in Maria's home after Sakutarou was "killed". Jessica is Beatrice who loved Battler, and also the one who gave golden brooch to Shannon and Kanon. Jessica is not child of Krauss and Natsuhi. She is actually child of Rudolf and Asumu that has supposedly died, in other words she is Battler's half-sister. Jessica kills Kanon in games 2 and 4 and disguises his corpse as her own corpse. That's why Battler can't find his corpse anywhere in those games. Now for some proofs. George is proven to be culprit by the second twilight of the first game. He is the only one who meets all requirements to kill Eva and Hideyoshi. He has enough skill and physical strength to kill 2 people with one hit of icepick to forehead. He could effortlessly enter their room and stay there while Hideyoshi went to shower. I must also prove my assumptions about the door and murder weapon. While chain and lock could be falsified after the murder took place, it definetly couldn't be broken before murder took place, because it doesn't make any sense for Eva and Hideyoshi to stay at a room where lock and chain are broken. And also murder weapons at least in this murder are definetly the icepicks, not guns. Evidence for that is testimony of Battler who has observed them. He mentions how deep they are stuck in, and that for a blade with such short handle it requires a lot of strength to stick it so deep. And also Eva couldn't invite Shannon in because she couldn't be Shannon's accomplice. And she couldn't be Shannon's accomplice because there is no way in hell how Shannon could persuade her. Threatening her is impossible because Eva can annihilate Shannon with one kick. Bribing her is also impossible because it requires showing her the mountain of gold, and we have all seen what happens when Eva sees that mountain of gold. Again, Shannon's life would be the first on the line. Jessica has a lot of circumstantial evidence stacked against her. 1. First game, night before killings. Jessica visits Natsuhi and gives her a doorknob charm. The next morning Natsuhi's door has blood on it. Whoever painted it would need to know about charm on other side. But it's impossible for anyone other than Natsuhi herself or Jessica., just recall that Natsuhi has a very bad problem with sleeping. 2. Third game, after Nanjo's death. We know in red that Jessica didn't kill him. But what's interesting is this: Why has whoever that killed Nanjo not killed Jessica as well? She was in the same room after all. The answer is, they are partners in crime. 3. Fourth game, Jessica's call to Battler from her room. What she told him on the phone and what he found in her room contains a lot of contradictions, and Battler himself has stated all of them. I won't list it here but encourage you to reread this part, it strongly supports that this corpse is not Jessica's corpse. 4. Seventh game, Maria tells Wil how she met Beatrice on Rokkenjima, and lists all people who came with them to tea parties. And Jessica is not on the list, which is incredibly suspicious. I mean Jessica lives on that island almost without friends, and not allowed to go anywhere most of the time. So at rare occasions when Rosa and Maria come to island, and then Maria and a lot of servants go somewhere for a tea party, why the hell would Jessica not go with them? The only explanation I see is that she did go with them, but in the disguise of Beatrice. 5. If we assume that both George and Jessica are culprits, then fourth game becomes embarrasingly simple. Silent corpses adorned by fiction. This is not Wil's puzzle. This is his precise description of everything that happens in fourth game. In this game Rosa, Jessica and George kill everyone at once except for Kumasawa, Gohda, Kyrie and Battler. Then Rosa stays with Kyrie in Kyrie's room and threatening with a gun forces her to say bullshit to Battler on the phone, and George and Jessica simply pretend that they are talking to all these other people on the phone. Kumasawa and Gohda are also threatened to lie, and they would disobey if given more time to think, but they are shut in the shed and killed quickly after their testimony. When Battler visit's Kyrie's room he confirms that there are several holes in her room that could be from gun-threatening. Rosa is already accepted by Shkannontrists to be culprit in second game, but they claim that it's only for that game. I'll show that she is also required at least in the third game. 1. Someone needs to give Eva the heads ring. The same ring that she later transfers to Ange. Magic scene depicts EVA-Witch to recieve it from Beatrice right after Eva has met in gold chamber with Rosa(who just happened to be there). 2. Third game, first twilight. Someone needs to construct the linked closed rooms. It's impossible to do for Shannon, but possible for Rosa. Why it's impossible for Shannon: Shkannontrists love to claim that red truth doesn't mean what it means, and person can somehow be alive even when proclaimed dead in red. And I can't stop them. Usually. But not in this case. Because there is simply too much red concerning this case. Here is a list: 6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead! There is no one hiding in the six rooms! The six people died instantly! Only the victims are inside the rooms, and no other people exist inside the rooms. The six people were not killed by traps None of the six people committed suicide! No life forms other than humans have any connection to this game The individual keys were found inside envelopes alongside the corpses! All of them had wounds resembling gunshot wounds which became fatal! It is impossible for the murder to have taken place from outside the room!! I shall say more with the red! When the five other than Kinzo were murdered, the murderer was definitely in the same room! I already proclaimed in red at the time that there were no suicides!! And unless you can somehow disprove everything from this list, you have no other choice then to submit that, at least in this one case Shannon is physically dead. And not only dead, but killed by someone else, because noone of them commited suicide. And the official explanation that she pretended to be dead in one room and then went to the other doesn't work. Not to mention that she is later seen dead again back in the parlor from which she has supposedly left to church according to this explanation. How Rosa could construct it: When relatives found six closed rooms and went to go into the parlor through the window, Rosa said that she will go wake up children. But in reality she went back into the mansion, opened parlor door with her last master key, closed it from inside, hid master key in Shannon's pocket and went hiding somewhere in the room. When relatives left parlor and went to the second room, Rosa escaped through the window and went to cousins, just as she said. By the way, if you think that these 2 red truths There is no one hiding in the six rooms! Only the victims are inside the rooms, and no other people exist inside the rooms. disprove that Rosa could hide in parlor, then you are forgetting that time is important for red truth. At the time when Beatrice proclaimed these, Rosa has already left parlor. So no contradiction here. What do you think, everyone? Last edited by eX_ploit; 2014-11-03 at 06:34. |
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2014-11-03, 05:30
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Link #34577 | |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
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I take it as a good sign. Oh, by the way I forgot to explain one thing, so I'll do it here - about Jessica being Battler's sister. It's actually a puzzle hidden in Umineko. And all you need to solve it is to reconstruct events of 18 years ago and turn some chessboards over. On one hand we have Natsuhi. She is 47 years old. Considering that Jessica is 18 that means she was born when Natsuhi was 29. And we also know that Natsuhi was married to Krauss as soon as she came of age, in other words when she became 18. And we also know that Krauss and Natsuhi were pressured by Kinzo to have children as soon as possible. And despite that it took them 29-18=11 years. Now it doesn't take a detective to figure out that if they couldn't have children for 11 years despite being pressured that means that someone of them is infertile. That would make Jessica's birth a miracle. And a miracle it was. Except that miracles don't exist in Umineko. Therefore it was a trick. A fake pregnancy. On the other hand we have Rudolf. 18 years ago he has found himself in a very delicate situation. He impregnated 2 women at the same time. What happened in the end is that one child died during birth, so Rudolf married the woman whose child survived. But that resolution was suspiciously convenient for him. What would happen if both children survived? It's not like he could marry both women. He would find himself in a hell of a situation. And so from the two motives one crime is born. One person who wants to get rid of one of his children, and one person who wants to make a fake pregnancy. It's like adding 2 plus 2 to get 4. Last edited by eX_ploit; 2014-11-03 at 06:33. |
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2014-11-03, 07:05
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Link #34579 | |||
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
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2014-11-03, 07:12
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Link #34580 |
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A Rather Brillig Ember
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: North America
Age: 27
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Thanks for providing a laugh, that's hilarious! Oh my god, Jessica is Battler's sister? Holy shit that's the funniest thing I've heard all day. "Miracles don't happen" is the best piece of evidence I've ever heard- Solid, A+ job.
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Last edited by Mr. Dent; 2014-11-03 at 07:32. |
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