Guilty Crown - General Discussion

[creb]

Originally Posted by Enternal

It is a dream world. A world where he does not have to face any death, cruelty, and etc. It's a place where he a 17 year old and can live just like a student day to day. In a sense it is a dream world compared to what he saw when he went with Gai.

I think it's a normal world. Hardly a dream. Calling it a dream would indicate the other reality he saw is real.

Like the world where GHQ killed off an entire city block? Oh wait, they did that because Gai sent Inori in to steal something he was too chickenshit to steal himself.

Or do you mean the world where Gai waits till after GHQ kills off a bunch of civilians? Who, again, were only killed because Gai wanted the Void Genome for himself, and one presumes because he wanted to traumatize Shu into thinking GHQ=bastards you need to KILL. :P

Having served a one term stint in the US Army, it used to bug me how soldiers are generally depicted in media (not just anime), but I've mostly gotten over it over the years, because in the end it's just not worth getting one's panties in a bunch over. Still, till the day I die, I will find it hilarious how often soldiers are just these evil caricatures that authors and scriptwriters don't even try to depict as real people. To be fair, not just them. We can include the countless nameless security guards who've been carved up by heroes in the name of justice as well.

Now, while we HAVE been shown that GHQ are the cardboard villains, let's not forget that in the framework of the story we've seen so far, all their cruelty came by as a result of a blonde-haired bishie who seems uber-rich, wanting some fantastical power for himself, and giving off seriously un-serious vibes about this being a fight to "take back Japan". I mean would you take much stock in the words of a trustfund baby if he was to walk up to you and say, "hey dude, let's take back <your country of choice>!" Though, I don't doubt some of his non-spoonfed members of the resistance group really do believe these ideals, just like all those uneducated members of some real life terrorist organizations did, so really, despite my snark, this part is actually somewhat realistic.

Anyways, I'll further point out that we haven't actually seen GHQ's "brutality" just for shits and giggles (in a completely isolated incident that wasn't a response to you know...terrorism), so for all we know, if Gai wasn't out being a terrorist, things might be a little peaceful; somewhat oppressive knowing there's a foreign army on your soil, but peaceful. I imagine if GHQ was really wiping out city blocks willy-nilly for the last ten years, basic math would seem to indicate there'd be no city left.

Now, I realize we're not supposed to take this so seriously that we should analyze this type of behavior, justifications, etc. That it's popcorn entertainment, and we're supposed to just accept that being a mass murderer (which, you know, when you look through some non-anime-reality-distortion-goggles, Shu kinda would be in any real non-anime society) is perfectly justified if one is fighting for JUSTICE!!!!

And, I am. I'm greatly entertained. I wouldn't be in this thread if I wasn't. It helps being able to disconnect reality from fiction though, and not try to make any real moral/political/social sense of it all. Enjoy the pretty art, skintight outfits, laugh at the pseudo science, giggle over coming up with fantastical theories as to where the show is going next, drink some beers, and just sit back and relax.

As for Shu , he may not be a great GAR character, and Guilty Crown may not be a piece of classic cinema, but it is sort of nice to see that Shu is, in any other medium than sensational fiction, a fairly normal teenage boy. A tad emo, but not therapy-inducingly so, likes to peek at girl's boobs (c'mon guys, you know you did this a lot back when the hormones were first letting themselves be heard), has internal monologues that are fairly sensible that doesn't always mesh with his outward appearance, has no real interest in becoming a terrorist since his life is pretty darn good-if a little empty due to being a slight introvert.

Let's cherish this, because we all know by the time this series is done, he'll be carving through hundreds of nameless grunts without a speck of remorse as a vehicle for the author's suppressed resentment over US occupation of his country after WW2 (hey, I'll be real here, I probably wouldn't be particularly stoked if there were foreign troops stationed in my country either), as Shu valiantly strives to live up to the heavy mantle of shounen male lead.

Now, if you don't enjoy it, great! Saying you don't enjoy it once is fine, but seriously...saying it ten billion times (yes, exaggeration). There's a lot of things to enjoy in life. More than any one person will ever be able to experience. Do you really want to spend it doing something you apparently don't enjoy and aren't being forced to?

[Enternal]

Originally Posted by orion

But that's just going back to your comfortable lifestyle. He does have a right to refuse fighting just like all those other students and adults have done. Besides, his mother works for the govenment. He prob has a level of "untouchablility" around him that he doesn't know about yet.

Aaargh! You're saying what I'm trying to say but it seems that you don't get that. He did refuse to join Funeral Parlor when he did not take Gai's hand. He ran way back to his comfortable lifestyle because it's better than what he saw with Gai.

Choice 1: Fight and face the craziness that I just experienced wih Gai.
Choice 2: Go back to school and enjoy the comfortable life I had before at school.

Shu picked choice 2. He could have picked choice 1 and fight to save the people. But no he picked choice 2. In a way, he ran away from the harsh truth and went back to his comfortable life hoping it does not affect him even though he's now involved since he got the King's power.

[Flawfinder]

Originally Posted by NoOneKnowS

Wow, lot of anti-replies against Guilty Crown here.

Seriously, what did you guys expect?

At least one character that isn't a total bore. And a story. Which thankfully, the ending of Episode 3 is leading up to. I did NOT want the same experience I had with the first Matrix movie (decent action and visuals, horribly boring characters, only vague attempt at plot, ideas that were dated even when much better previous works used them, and flimsy reasons for why the characters haven't been captured yet). God, that movie was boring.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Enternal

Shu picked choice 2. He could have picked choice 1 and fight to save the people. But no he picked choice 2. In a way, he ran away from the harsh truth and went back to his comfortable life hoping it does not affect him even though he's now involved since he got the King's power.

But you don't know Gai's real motives. Gai obviously has money and financial backers as you can't get mechs and that technology on your own. So Shu made the right decision imo.

[Enternal]

Originally Posted by orion

But you don't know Gai's real motives. Gai obviously has money and financial backers as you can't get mechs and that technology on your own. So Shu made the right decision imo.

Hehe yeah. People may say he should fight and become a hero but... naw. Shu's decision is normal and I think it's not wrong or anything either. My comment was more to those who keep saying he's wimpy and why the hell did he not choose to become a hero... and something like that. The main thing is you don't know if you can put your life on the line for someone you don't know about yet.

[Flawfinder]

Originally Posted by Enternal

Hehe yeah. People may say he should fight and become a hero but... naw. Shu's decision is normal and I think it's not wrong or anything either. My comment was more to those who keep saying he's wimpy and why the hell did he not choose to become a hero... and something like that. The main thing is you don't know if you can put your life on the line for someone you don't know about yet.

I'd like to add that I'm behind Shu's decision 100% (I'm just not behind Shu himself). I don't trust Gai, as his character description alone doesn't paint him in a positive light (Shu's rival?). And if he can see voids, why didn't he disguise himself and come to the school? A lot of people are also speculating that he set up Shu's capture just to trick him into joining him. And if that's true, that'll make the show a lot more interesting. Oh, and he's 17? Bullcrap.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Enternal

Hehe yeah. People may say he should fight and become a hero but... naw. Shu's decision is normal and I think it's not wrong or anything either. My comment was more to those who keep saying he's wimpy and why the hell did he not choose to become a hero... and something like that. The main thing is you don't know if you can put your life on the line for someone you don't know about yet.

That's true. Gai could be backed by another government/large business entity who wants to occupy Japan.

[Enternal]

Hehe yeah no kidding! Gai is just soo fishy right now it's scary. I mean he's charismatic, seems to have the money and the power, and a bunch of other things. Considering how Shu shows that he isn't stupid (he figured Gai was able to see voids), Shu probably find him dangerous as well haha. "he's 17? Bullcrap." Lol! We can test it by pulling a void out of him. Unless the whole "under 17" rule thing was not true.

[creb]

With everything fishy about Gai, it's his age we're fixating on?

It's anime folks. Age is just a number. Over 13 if the Anime wants to put the character in risque situations that involve fanservice, and under 18 if they want it to resonate with the teen demographic, which...admittedly...I never understood as I have a sneaking suspicion it's not teens that drive the sales for these shows.

Appearances don't really mean anything and are almost never a reason to doubt someone's proclaimed age in anime.

[tsunade666]

Gai is also talking to one probably backer in episode 03. When he mention a name and a condition. I'm also agreeing on Shu's decision with not joining in funeral parlor but his reaction on killing someone is completely off on the reaction when he didn't help Inori in episode 1. In this series they portray the bad guys as bad but that's not enough justification on killing them though it would suffice on the rebels but Shu isn't one of the rebels to begin with. True he see himself the execution and all but there is no good transition of emotion on his side.

From a shock reaction to being invited to join then he turn down and return to school like nothing happen even though his life already change. He even said that it's one and a life time adventure. Did the power of king didn't sink in him that having that makes his life not normal anymore. The story specify that only 3 exist and if one of it is already been used on him then he has value on both parties. But he didn't even think about it and he was shock when he saw Inori in his school. It's like all he think about is himself which he knew when he starts moping again in the train when his idiotic friend calls him a moron even though it's alright to call a girl a doll but not a cg. what's the different between a doll and a cg to begin with. I also hate this guy named Souta. It looks to me that he will be a problem in the future. Because his all to focus in funeral parlor. Maybe his past is link to it that's why he favors the funeral parlor which is rebelling against the invaders but I'm seeing this guy as a future member in funeral parlor or a problem for Shu.

Originally Posted by Sides

Thread need more of her

Spoiler:

I am sad, cannot find fanart of Hare Menjou.

This girl needs more love I like her more than Inori or other female cast.

[Flawfinder]

With everything fishy about Gai, it's his age we're fixating on?

It's anime folks. Age is just a number. Over 13 if the Anime wants to put the character in risque situations that involve fanservice, and under 18 if they want it to resonate with the teen demographic, which...admittedly...I never understood as I have a sneaking suspicion it's not teens that drive the sales for these shows.

Appearances don't really mean anything and are almost never a reason to doubt someone's proclaimed age in anime.

It's not just anime. It extends to many sorts of media (particularly school movies in the 70s-90s), and I just love making fun of it. Particularly when they're in school, because it allows me to use the joke, "how many grades did you repeat?"

[Kaioshin Sama]

I kind of have to agree that this show really does make Inori look like Shu's own personal doll thing to ogle and who will just hang around him regardless of anything that happens. I guess it's good for him to have a companion and maybe it'll make him smarten up a bit, but she still really needs a personality. It's amazing that she probably has the least character and personality of any female character I've seen so far this season and Chihara Minori is present in a show. That should never happen, but I'll continue to give it time. This episode and their dialogues were far and above anything they've had so far and you can sort of feel them bonding just a little in their conversation at Shu's apartment. Plus the whole scene with her telling Shu how to draw the void weapon out of someone and then him starting to ambush students at the school was pretty amusing too. One has to wonder if she just has a really dry sense of humour or something in everything she does and if she's really as meek and innocent as she seems on the surface and "just following Gai's orders" or not.

Also Shu's parents working for the Legion of Doom could have interesting repercussions down the line depending on where they go with it. Will they be willing compliants in genocide, will they be taken hostage to lure out Shu, or will they escape and defect to Funeral Parlor perhaps.

As for the Legion of Doom side of things, apparently there's a concept now called the Norma Gene and this somehow ties into our new supervillain Major Segai who honestly is kind of the most interesting of them yet in how he pursues his business. I guess when you've already set the bar that high for bug-eyed supervillains this sort of character is able to come across as vaguely normal by comparison, but we'll see. At least he's not constantly wigging out, which is a start.

One minor problem I have is the whole setup with Shu and Inori trying to find a possible student that saw them fighting and can rat them out to avoid execution, but the Legion of Doom has already been built up as so black evil that it almost makes me wonder why they wouldn't just lay waste to the general area or something anyway to stamp out the resistance. Also the whole 17 year or younger excuse for void objects is some pretty tepid stuff even by Yoshino standards. I guess it's an excuse to keep all the potential forces for resisting the LoD young and nubile, but yeah...pretty tepid and the whole really convenient ability to erase their memories is as well. I'm getting that sense of Yoshino making up and establishing stuff on the fly again to patch up the story a bit and that doesn't bode well yet again going forward.

Also this shows sense of comedic timing, when to lay on the fan service, and when to be serious and deliberate is just still a huge problem right now. The whole scenario with Shu going around trying to draw out the void and just suddenly grabbing a chicks breasts to be followed by some tired cliche dialogue is a particularly egregious example as was the whole. You've set up a mildly interesting scenario and goal for the pair at long last and it kind of feels squandered a bit on lame and tired school hijinks material.

Couple other things, the fact that Inori's void is a sword and they claim that the object reflects what's in the persons heart kind of hints that there is indeed a more cunning personality hidden somewhere beneath the surface. It seems like they are setting this up as a sort of theme with dialogues like that one and the one that Shu had with his friend. And seriously if anybody didn't immediately guess that that guy would be Sugar than for shame as there are few things more obvious about this episode than that "twist". Also, why was he even running away from the girl he grabbed? I mean what's the absolute worse thing that could possibly happen in having a pretty cute girl like that chasing after you?

The way they handled the ending was a mixed bag for me. It almost kind of looked like they might have gone for something a little different, showing Funeral Parlor's way of handling things as a little extreme as well. I had liked how Shu talked Inori down from executing Sugar and how they were looking like they were going to become friends again, but of course they had to go and basically undo it a little by having Inori be in the right in the end and Sugar turn traitor anyway. Goddamnit Yoshino, what the hell is wrong with having things end on a shades of grey note just this once. Really kind of disappointed in the way that ended, but I guess at least Shu and Inori are showing a hint of chemistry now.

Overall a passable 3rd episode that manages to rise a little above Yoshino's absolute horrid tendencies towards how to handle a story and characters, but still could have been much better, more mature, and interesting with just a few minor tweaks. Frustrating.....

[creb]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Frustrating.....

Have a few beers, don't take it all so seriously, and turn that frown upside down!

I mean, if you can suspend your disbelief to accept a kid 1/2 the size of an adult pilot can sit in a cockpit of a mecha and reach all the controls, and that same mecha has a system that generates weapons and armor on the fly in response to immediate battle data analysis, I think you can relax and enjoy this show as well.

Anyways, Major Segai isn't young and nubile (at least, I don't think even this show is going to pretend he's 17 ), so I doubt Shu is going to go KAMEHAMEHA on GHQ. Which means there's a glimmer of hope that there's some actual plot happenings when Segai interrogates or whatever he does to Shu in the next episode. That, alone, makes him a villain worth rooting for!

I'm expecting some lengthy exposition from Segai to shed some light on the GHQ side of things. Of course, I could be expecting too much, but one should always hold on to hope!

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by creb

Have a few beers, don't take it all so seriously, and turn that frown upside down!

I mean, if you can suspend your disbelief to accept a kid 1/2 the size of an adult pilot can sit in a cockpit of a mecha and reach all the controls, and that same mecha has a system that generates weapons and armor on the fly in response to immediate battle data analysis, I think you can relax and enjoy this show as well.

Anyways, Major Segai isn't young and nubile (at least, I don't think even this show is going to pretend he's 17 ), so I doubt Shu is going to go KAMEHAMEHA on GHQ. Which means there's a glimmer of hope that there's some actual plot happenings when Segai interrogates or whatever he does to Shu in the next episode. That, alone, makes him a villain worth rooting for!

I'm expecting some lengthy exposition from Segai to shed some light on the GHQ side of things. Of course, I could be expecting too much, but one should always hold on to hope!

No the young and nubile characters are all on the Funeral Parlor side, everyone on the Legion of Doom side is a big ol' mean and nasty adult.

I don't know, given the standard the show and Yoshino have set with it's/his writing I just expect some hilariously contrived way for Shu to exit that's going to leave people with a on their face again, but I suppose anything could happen. Also I am relaxing and enjoying the show, I just think as I said it could be THAT much more enjoyable with just a few minor tweaks including less of the black and white stuff, moderately better comic relief/fan service timing, and a little more consistency and clarification in the characters and why they are doing the things that they are doing that don't exactly make the most sense even within the context the show has set up so far. Like 3 things that could easily have been remedied by now are dragging this show down a bit for me, that's what's frustrating.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by creb

Have a few beers, don't take it all so seriously, and turn that frown upside down!

I mean, if you can suspend your disbelief to accept a kid 1/2 the size of an adult pilot can sit in a cockpit of a mecha and reach all the controls, and that same mecha has a system that generates weapons and armor on the fly in response to immediate battle data analysis, I think you can relax and enjoy this show as well.

You should really read what you happen to quote, because it's obvious you didn't in your attempt to create a funny paraphrasing of someone's posts. That was hardly angry, and it's just longer than average because someone's trying to actually provide some well thought out things rather than useless rageposts like mine.

But you are right about the beer.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Sides

Thread need more of her

Spoiler:

I am sad, cannot find fanart of Hare Menjou.

LOL Yes, she caught my attention when she cutely said that she would have been "willing" if Shu asked her. She and Tsugumi are definitely showing some personality.

[Archon_Wing]

*Demands more Tsugumi fanart*

especially from behind

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

*Demands more Tsugumi fanart*

especially from behind

you've really taking a liking on Tsugumi

specially her behind

Ayase also looks sexy with all the fan service she provide and I'm also liking the class prez. I have soft spot for glasses girl

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

you've really taking a liking on Tsugumi

specially her behind

Hey, one's behind is useful for things like umm closing doors when their hands are full. That's just being efficient!

Right now, she sorta wins by default, by having a more fun personality.

Ayase also looks sexy with all the fan service she provide and I'm also liking the class prez. I have soft spot for glasses girl

Ayase... no opinion on her yet besides the blushing looks kinda nice. But she is voiced by KanaHana so this is almost guaranteed to change.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

No the young and nubile characters are all on the Funeral Parlor side, everyone on the Legion of Doom side is a big ol' mean and nasty adult.

I don't know, given the standard the show and Yoshino have set with it's/his writing I just expect some hilariously contrived way for Shu to exit that's going to leave people with a on their face again, but I suppose anything could happen. Also I am relaxing and enjoying the show, I just think as I said it could be THAT much more enjoyable with just a few minor tweaks including less of the black and white stuff, moderately better comic relief/fan service timing, and a little more consistency and clarification in the characters and why they are doing the things that they are doing that don't exactly make the most sense even within the context the show has set up so far. Like 3 things that could easily have been remedied by now are dragging this show down a bit for me, that's what's frustrating.

Honestly, I do agree.

I'm enjoying this anime quite a lot, but then, I'm huge on artwork/animation quality, and Guilty Crown is incredible pretty and just so lovely to behold at a visual level.

I certainly don't think that the plot/characters are great, but I think they're by and large passable, at least at this point in the show (I admit that they need to get better and/or justified more, particularly Shu and Inori).

Passable plot/characters with great artwork and gloriously animated action scenes = Tiple_R is a very happy boy.

I'm not euphoric - that would require a genuinely good/great plot and compelling characters - but I'm happy.


However, I share some of your frustration in that it would really only take a bit of good proofreading/plot editing by a writing editor, and a few minor tweaks, to make this show truly special. One of the most obvious examples is that psychotic blonde villain from Episode 2. Change him to a smug hotshot pilot who sincerely thinks he's one of the "good guys" (and has some practical reason for thinking that) and it would have done a world of good.