Gundam 00 Mecha, Weapons, and Technology

[RES-01 Perses Gundam]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

Considering Innovades in the general army being somewhat of a "super weapon" of sorts. I don't think anyone beyond a development team and top brass officers would know. So I don't think many people would get wind of it.


Though, my ideas and speculation are pointless. The ESF wouldn't adopt Innovades now in the series, since everyone corrupt is gone. So I FAIL.

They don't need to, since Veda's in charge of that.

I wonder what happened to that first ESF president. Did he get impeached and thrown into prison? (Hopes it would not happen to his real-life counterpart..)

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by RES-01 Perses Gundam

They don't need to, since Veda's in charge of that.

I wonder what happened to that first ESF president. Did he get impeached and thrown into prison? (Hopes it would not happen to his real-life counterpart..)

He probably killed himself like Homer.

[fizzmaister]

Originally Posted by RES-01 Perses Gundam

(Hopes it would not happen to his real-life counterpart..)

I agree. Just being voted out would be quite alright . (<- that's a joke, if you want to start a debate pm/vm me).

And I really don't know about the ESF's views on innovades. At the moment, I think it would be political poison for the ESF to try to make innovades, but who knows. The super-soldier project was already canceled once before S1, it might still live on. And they might even advance the technology to the point that they can create innovade-level super soldiers.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Not sure if this has been discussed before, but what do you think is stronger? Memento Mori, or the CB Rail Cannon? Both are pretty good at wiping out fleets, and both (guessing on Rail Cannon) have the power to wipe out a small country.

Who takes the win terms of more destruction?

[Zantetsuken]

You mean a city maybe. No way could either of them destroy small countries.

Anyway, if I have to guess, I say that they're more or less the same OR that the MM is stronger. It created such a large crater. But unless they shoot the CBRG to the earth so we can compare them it's really hard to say for sure.

[StratoSpear]

I'd say CB's Rail Cannon because it uses the power of an ENTIRE Tau Drive for each shot. Unless I missed something, I don't think we've got a clue as to where MM gets it's power from.

[Zantetsuken]

MM got it's power from the Orbital Ring...

[StratoSpear]

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

MM got it's power from the Orbital Ring...

So it's purely solar-powered?

As in indirectly?

[Zantetsuken]

Yeah. Electricity is used to power it. IIRC it's called a free electron laser, don't know what it means though

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by StratoSpear

So it's purely solar-powered?

As in indirectly?

More like directly. Memento Mori is powered by the Orbital Ring itself; that's why its connected to it. Otherwise it'd likely be a far more maneuverable satellite.

The rail-mounted cannon on the Celestial Being, on the other hand, has a faster firing time, due to its power source.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

I'm getting impatient waiting for into to explain how the GN Tau Drives sync up.

Yeah,I'm impatient as well but in absence of any actual stated information,we're going to have to assume that it syncs up the same way the original way does,more or less.Its not like its a big gaping hole,a small possible hole but its copied technology so they could just not tell us and it will be considered a small gaping hole.


At the end of the day,I guess it syncs up the same way or a very similar way.As for compatibility,they are several factors that we need to consider:

1)Design:The Original Drive was designed a long time ago and it may not be specifically designed for a Twin Drive use,meaning that they're main purpose is to create a solar furnace that works first.Also,the Solar Furnaces have remained the same over the years at its core,so no its still the same thing at the very core.A Tau Drive is continuously made,and EVERYTHING about it can be imporved because at the end of the day,they come fro a production line and new products can always be made with a specific specialty or design modification.Originals are stuck with whatever the core forever.

2)Probability:Lets simplify things by saying that 2 out 5 of ALL Drives created will be Twin Drive capable as a pair.

Well,whats the production output of original Drives until end of S2?
The answer is 5,thats one pair.

The production output of Tau Drives up until end of S2.A lot,at least a few hundred by my conservative estimation but the true number could be anything really.So just take 2/5x Alot and you get that answer,but if you follow this perception that you'll have an easier chance getting:

[Probability] X [Total Number of Drives Made=[Twin Drivable Drives]

Original
[2/5] X [5]=2 Drives that can go Twin Drive

Pseudo
[2/5] X [500]=200 Drives that can go Twin Drive

[[500]: Note Random large number I'm putting in for Pseudo]



So if you were to use this formula,and assumes that it works [I wont go into details now on why the formula may not be the same,but one topic at a time],then all Ribbons need to get a Twin Drive pair is to just make 10 Drives,and he'll get one pait.

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

The Tau drives are standardized and follow a template, probably a higher chance for them to sync since they roll off the same line.

That's possible I guess and your point is valid in one sense,though one may argue the opposite to be true as well because the mass production qualities of the Tau Drives may be a lot more different.

In this sense,mass production may make things similar,very similar and this is probably true on a surface level but depend son what Individuality that the Twin Drive actually needs,it may actually be a lot harder,because they may be many micro variations on a production level,even if it is true on a macro level.Of course,even if this is true,this can be fixed by trying to make a pair of compatible Drives from the get go,and since it becomes a "designed purpose",modifications can be done before the building to ensure the highest probability creation of a compatible pair.

Also,the hardness of producing a True GN Drive may mean that the team has little chances to get it right,even if Twin Drive was in their minds when they were making the Drive.In contrast,Pseudo furnaces have alot of chances due to how easy they are to make.

Getting 2 headshots with 500 tries is easier than getting 2 headshots with 5 tries,to put it simply.[Been playing REarkside Chronicles so yeah.....headshot rules]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

What do you think the chances are of the ESF being able to create their own Innovades, instead of broken down Super Soldiers? Maybe that's who the Mr. Silver is?

Well,low.For one thing they lack the technology and data as far as we know,else they've tried it a long time ago already.

That even assumes they even know what an Innovedo is,they know th "Innovators" as a group of people,or a faction.Not as a species.And Ribbons may not be stupid enough to tell them or give them hints,since Innovedos are important for Veda's information gathering and human behavior studies.

Besides,I have a feeling that for such an advanced medical technology society,that has to be laws in place that limits what you can do with this field anyways.

Not to mention,if you go down that path,they'll be a time where those Innovedos may rebel or start asking for rights,far into the future from they're deployment,especially if they're too many of them and they all rebel against you.Maybe a Blade Runner type situation?

Hell,even Veda has a hard time controlling some Innovedos out there,ESF may be playing with fire here if they go down that path.Even with the Super Soldier program had a lot of "failures" that ultimately haunted them later,like Allelujah.

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

You forget that the ESF had use of VEDA while Ribbons was in command. The idea isn't totally impossible.

Innovades and Super Soliders aren't all that different, it's just one is more advanced.

Even if they don't have the info from VEDA, it's only a matter of time before they figure out a better formula.

One is a modified human beings,while the other is an artificially made human beings,created from an aritificially designed gene sequence and build using artificial pre-made cells.

Soma may be a designer baby,but she has "parents" and was modified as a natural human.Meaning that the nature still plays quite a significant role here.

Innovedos are more like production lines,literally.

Originally Posted by GundamMeisterLockon

the new blog layout is looking good

Not for me,I liked the old one alot better.

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

The ESF wouldn't adopt Innovades now in the series, since everyone corrupt is gone. So I FAIL.

The world will never be free from corruption,especially such a large Federation government like the ESF.Maybe a bit nicer,but they'll go down that path potentially.

But at least Ribbons isn't here to unite them,though I'm pretty sure there are potentials out there.

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

He probably killed himself like Homer.

Simpson's still running,so I fail to see what you mean.Though that should have happened a long time ago considering the trouble he always get into.[jk/jk]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

Not sure if this has been discussed before, but what do you think is stronger? Memento Mori, or the CB Rail Cannon? Both are pretty good at wiping out fleets, and both (guessing on Rail Cannon) have the power to wipe out a small country.

Who takes the win terms of more destruction?

Well,lets compare....hmm....MM is a laser weapon while CBRail is a beam weapon.MM is seen destroying a city while CB destroyed some of a fleet.

MM has a much more plentiful power source,which is the Solar Energy System,which is solar energy collected from the 1/3 of the ring in a continuous period,so it wins in terms of immediate energy supply.CB probably takes its energy from one to possibly a few Tau Drives,while in terms of electricity supply probably have a smaller SES system installed.

MM probably has the far better range though,CBRail is probably more Anti-ArmyThatsInFrontofUs only kind of thing.

CBRail uses GN Particles,while MM uses a laser.I think GNP wins but we have to take into account the possible power level here,which I think MM is bigger so it may be better.

Depends,its hard to compare but I'll say Memento Mori for the larger power supply.That and all three of them each have their own individual power supply source,which is 1/3 of the SES.

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

You mean a city maybe. No way could either of them destroy small countries.

Singaporeans would disagree with you,and maybe the Vatican as well.

Oh and the United States of Japan at the start of R2 [Code Geass fans know what I mean].

[Zantetsuken]

Small county man. He said that. Small country should mean a country with more than one city. Singapore and Vatican are definitely not a normal "small country". It's an itty bitty country. A city-state you could call them. But meh, this is semantics.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Hm, well...suppose I did overestimate the destruction radius. Be it as it may, MM can certainly destroy a city like Chicago and NYC in one blast.

[GundamFan]

Originally Posted by RES-01 Perses Gundam

I'm trying to keep the tone down, but I say you are CRAZY!

How can the ESF revive the Super Soldier program considering how much controversy it caused in season 1? If the program requires legislative ratification, the ESF senate will never pass the program. Moreover, Christina had leaked the info on the program to the world in season 1 and the ESF would have more than enough reasons never to undertake this grotesque path again.

Unless, like my previous post, they decide to proceed with this program in secret. Which would also be quite impossible considering that the ESF army has been completely reformed (no more inhumane A-Laws) and Kati Mannequin and co would definitely oppose the program.

Besides, the ESF seeks to protect the peace now, not create more chaos (with is probably a prerequisite for a Super Soldier ).

Well Pres there are few things your not taking into consideration like fear and desperation the ESF knows that one CB has better ms technology and at least 2 super soldiers themselves. I agree with you that the ESF wants to keep the peace now and it's pretty easy to justify creating super soldiers to that end. Because let's face it from the prespective of the ESF the greatest threat to peace is Celestial Being and since the ESF can't compete against them in machine quality they may resort to building themselves some better pilots. Anything from devloping a new model mobile suit, defending a member nation from attack by some militia faction based out of bordering country, to having one to many mobile suits at a base and Veda deciding it's a weapons build to promote war could cause an armed intervention. Once CB regroups and rearms it's going to be pretty hard for ESF army to exist and not come in conflict with them given the position CB has taken.

[SonicSP]

CB was never against the ESF in the first place,they've always stated their enemy was A-LAWS in S2.While they'll probably fight of the ESF if they commit any atrocities,they'll probably wont just outright destroy them,especially since a united world politically is really good.

The ESF will be weary of course,but they're pilots were never that bad to begin with.

[RES-01 Perses Gundam]

Originally Posted by GundamFan

Well Pres there are few things your not taking into consideration like fear and desperation the ESF knows that one CB has better ms technology and at least 2 super soldiers themselves. I agree with you that the ESF wants to keep the peace now and it's pretty easy to justify creating super soldiers to that end. Because let's face it from the prespective of the ESF the greatest threat to peace is Celestial Being and since the ESF can't compete against them in machine quality they may resort to building themselves some better pilots. Anything from devloping a new model mobile suit, defending a member nation from attack by some militia faction based out of bordering country, to having one to many mobile suits at a base and Veda deciding it's a weapons build to promote war could cause an armed intervention. Once CB regroups and rearms it's going to be pretty hard for ESF army to exist and not come in conflict with them given the position CB has taken.

Does Celestial Being really have better technology? Don't forget, ESF is a global organisation with talent sourced from every corner of the planet, and that's why we see geniuses in Billy Katagiri, Kati Mannequin and Sergei Smirnov etc. I do know that Celestial Being has the support of Veda now, but Veda itself collects information from the world so that it could provide CB with the input on how to build MS and technologies.

Perhaps, the reason why some people think CB has better machines than ESF is because CB uses true GN drives, and are after all the pioneers of the GN technology. Compared to the ESF, which only began using them 5 years ago.

I don't think CB has any problems with ESF. If there's any armed conflict, the ESF would intervene themselves. As for arms build-up or arms race, I believe that the ESF administration would undertake measures to avoid them. (I'm idealistic, I know)

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by RES-01 Perses Gundam

Does Celestial Being really have better technology? Don't forget, ESF is a global organisation with talent sourced from every corner of the planet, and that's why we see geniuses in Billy Katagiri, Kati Mannequin and Sergei Smirnov etc. I do know that Celestial Being has the support of Veda now, but Veda itself collects information from the world so that it could provide CB with the input on how to build MS and technologies.

Perhaps, the reason why some people think CB has better machines than ESF is because CB uses true GN drives, and are after all the pioneers of the GN technology.

While this was in 00PS1,its been stated that CB's technology is a few hundred years ahead of any other organization on the planet.

If you ask me,CB's technology can be great because the ESF has talent of the world,because having Veda means they can leech of those technology and data,for example like when Moreno took a look at Veda's database at the large amounts of medical data gathered there[Personally,this is what I think one of the factors that allowed them to be so advanced in the first place though I wont elaborate for now],and as long as Veda can manipulate the world's networks,and manipulate data [which Veda has been doing for centuries although it may or may not have that ability currently],they should be able to keep up a certain level of advanced technology,though keep in mind I'm not necessarily referring to military alone,which I dont think there is that large of a gap.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

I'd say now that Celestial Being has VEDA, an Innovator, and true GN Drives, the edge in combat is most likely given to them.

Compared to season 2, next time they come around, it's the ESF that will be on the run.

[RES-01 Perses Gundam]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

I'd say now that Celestial Being has VEDA, an Innovator, and true GN Drives, the edge in combat is most likely given to them.

Compared to season 2, next time they come around, it's the ESF that will be on the run.

The ESF has the whole world to them, including resources, soldiers, 3 Solar Elevators and public support. Doesn't seem so to me.

No, the ESF won't run. Why would they when they have millions of army personnels and mobile suits that they can always call on to go after Celestial Being. Besides, why would they? It's not as if the ESF and CB has any reason to fight.

[SonicSP]

Yeah,I don't see a significant technological advantage by CB in terms of military here.They can probably do well in smaller battles but they'll probably wont achieve the feats they could have done in S1,say destroy 20 mobile suits in 5 minutes.

It also does not help that Trans-Am is no longer CB exclusive anymore,thats for sure.

It also further does not help that CB's resources are sort of strained now.