2012-09-02, 18:05 | Link #61 | |
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2012-09-02, 20:01 | Link #62 |
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that's my point. in any population there are mostly these forgettable normal people and the ninjas in naruto are no exception. the ninjas we know and follow are special and all at least either jounin rank or potentially jounin rank. and then of course there are the kage levels and/or geniuses. there's no reason to follow any of those 100k normal ninja because they are not interesting and around genin level only able to do basic things we saw back in the first arc of naruto. so no, there isn't a lack of normal ninja. the ninja world is mostly those normal ones. the naruto story just follows the interesting ones whose lives effect major events in some way. its similar to how our human history doesnt recount normal lives, but most notable geniuses are preserved in our data and memories because they did interesting and eventful things
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2012-09-02, 20:18 | Link #63 | |||
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The Uchiha bro fight had no clever plan nor devious move. Itachi survived mostly because he was a powerful undead with a convenient ability. Quote:
Any jutsu, bloodline or not, is just a tool in the hands of someone. Also you do count physical abilities as part of being a genius. What do you think Shikamaru and Kakashi's higher IQ is? They are smarter than nearly anyone and they use this innate ability to their advantage. Just as they were born smarter there are people who are naturally stronger, tougher or faster. People like Nagato, Sasuke, Itachi and many others are natural born ninja. Naruto learned in a few day what Jiraiya couldn't master in a life time, that's what make them exceptional. |
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2012-09-02, 20:28 | Link #64 |
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As i recall, the term genius in naruto did not mean book smart or poweri, it meant natural talent that set u apart from ur peers.
Who is a genius? Madara, hashirama, minato, sarutobi, kakashi, oro, itachi, sasuke, neji and characters like that Who do i consider to be powerful but not a genius? Naruto, jiraiya, tobi, danzo, sage kabuto, characters like that. I would also consider nagato a genius, he was always considered to be a prodigy. Say what u want about him having the rinnegan, he mastered it on his own |
2012-09-03, 05:18 | Link #66 |
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Personally, and this is just me, I use the word 'genius' to describe individuals who have developed their skills much faster than even the other "talented" individuals. Kakashi, Itachi, and Orochimaru come to mind. Sasuke is a borderline case because while he was great at everything ninja-related and mastered Fire Style at a very early age, his achievements hardly compare to Itachi who did all that AND awakened his sharingan at an even earlier age.
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2012-09-03, 05:59 | Link #67 | |
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2012-09-03, 10:37 | Link #69 | |
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2012-09-03, 10:57 | Link #70 | ||
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Itachi did continue to get stronger though. He went on to become a jounin and join the ANBU at a ridiculously early age. He then proceeded to awaken to the Mangekyou Sharingan and joined an organization of the most powerful ninjas alive. I fail to see the problem here. |
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2012-09-03, 11:10 | Link #71 |
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^As an aside, Itachi was never a Jounin. Being a Jounin is not a prerequisite for being an ANBU.
That being said, to simply compare rank advancements is somewhat meaningless. Kakashi rose through the ranks faster than Itachi, and while both are "geniuses", it is plain to see that Itachi is a far more powerful everything compared to Kakashi (though Kakashi is arguably more intelligent). Additionally, Itachi had the help of an entire clan in achieving his early advancements. I'm sure he trained on his own, but his Father, Mother and Shisui all undoubtedly helped him in training his abilities and Sharingan. Sasuke, on the other hand, had a handful of scrolls (after the massacre) and that's about it. (It certainly didn't help that his mind was raped and he was traumatized when he started training again.) |
2012-09-03, 11:24 | Link #72 |
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saying itachi is a genius and sasuke is not is getting into the debate over who's a better genius, while casting aside the fact that they both are geniuses. sasuke was able to dispel itachi's tsukiomi with just a normal sharingan after all. i agree that itachi was better and smarter and by sasuke's own words 'perfect' although i wouldnt go that far myself. but sasuke's development is clearly genius as is his intelligence. just look at how he was able to diagnose everything deidara (a kage level fighter) did in the midst of a fast paced and deadly fight.
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2012-09-03, 12:44 | Link #73 | |
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Look I know this is discussion is pointless because when the basis of your reasoning is so patently absurd and illogical there is really nothing I can say to make you see the problem of your claim. But one more time just for the sake of the argument : I killed someone 5 years ago and another person yesterday so the first time I killed was yesterday because the first one doesn't count since I didn't kill anybody during those 5 years. This is exactly your reasoning with a reframed subject, can't you see how nonsensical it is? As I said I guess not. Oh well. Moving on to a more substantial subject. Even ignoring Itachi why would you think Sasuke is only borderline compared to, say, Orochimaru when the man himself admitted that at the same age he was considerably less talented than Sasuke? Do you think he was lying to himself? And in fact let's not ignore Itachi, a genius for sure who contrary to Sasuke started experiencing warfare at a younger age and never stopped until his death, is it any wonder that he developped faster than Sasuke under those circumstances? The fact is that the very first time Sasuke was put in real danger he awakened his Sharingan (which doesnt count I know), improved it again during his 2nd real battle and from that point on increased in power at a dramatical pace. Sasuke right now is still younger than Itachi in part 1, how strong can he grow in one more year? In part two Itachi was 21, how powerful could Sasuke be 4-5 years from now? Itachi surely had an earlier start but Sasuke rapidly filled the gap passed a certain age and is still increasing in power at a fast rate. You also say that Sasuke's achievements hardly compare to Itachi's but I beg to differ, Sasuke elemental mastery is miles ahead of anything Itachi ever shown in this category, the creation of Kirin by itself is a feat virtually unmatched in the elemental jutsu department. Itachi was and probably always will be better in Genjutsu but he had nothing on Sasuke Ninjutsu-wise and while he was clearly better with the MS he also had years of experience to master it contrary to Sasuke who has it since what? 2 or 3 weeks now? So long story short Itachi is indeed a genius, one of the greatest in this manga without a doubt but your dismissal of Sasuke looks like more of a personal issue you have with the character than what was shown in the story. |
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2012-09-03, 14:10 | Link #75 |
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I wouldn't call the two skirmishs before (Mist bro and Zabuza 1st appearance) real battle for Sasuke because he hardly did anything during them and thus didn't evolve.
The fight against Haku was the first one he had to better himself. |
2012-09-03, 15:54 | Link #76 | |
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2012-09-03, 16:19 | Link #77 | |
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My impression was the the author wanted us to look at some characters (Kakashi, Minato, Itachi, Shikamaru) as being more effective at using their resources (jutsu, abilities and chakra) and analyzing the situation to choose the right action than others are. That's why i think that their genius is even above of the others, who of course are also geniuses in the ninja world but not as much. I look only at the facts: Kabuto completely outpowered them and yet he failed to beat them. And again: i wasn't comparing Kabuto to Itachi but the brothers, if it was not for Itachi's decision Sasuke would already be captured by Kabuto. Sure Sasuke is a genius who can invent incredible things like taking control of a thunder. |
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2012-09-03, 16:31 | Link #78 | ||
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Still, agreed that the rate advancement doesn't really matter so much. It's just that Itachi was able to freely use his gifts at a much earlier age than Sasuke. Quote:
All very high-level opponents sure, but Sasuke's decisions in battle a lot of times seem ad-libbed and clumsy compared to the precise, calculating execution of Itachi's jutsu. And he doesn't regularly show knowledge and analytical ability to the extent Kakashi does (he's quick-witted and clever, but not really a tactical fighter). In terms of achievement, Sasuke is a genius, no doubt. but I think his portrayal is more that of a talented ninja who has happened to accumulate a lot of power rather than a ninja whose genius allowed him to progress so far.
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2012-09-03, 16:35 | Link #79 | |||||||
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Oh well, I guess stating your opinion isn't allowed on a forum or something. My idea of a genius is different from yours. Maybe I should just never say anything about what I think at all or people start badrepping me for having an opinion that's different from theirs and that's oh so terrible. >_> Last edited by Dengar; 2012-09-03 at 17:13. |
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2012-09-03, 17:38 | Link #80 | ||
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You're simply being called out on your reasoning, and you aren't backing it up. The manga shows Sasuke awakening his sharingan at an ealier age, plain and simple. Saying it "doesn't count" is simply denying the facts, apparently because of a personal bias. I don't see why the gap between uses is relevant. If he awakened it to try and counter a genjitsu against Itachi, why would he not be able to use it again if he wished during the interval of him not being in any battles? Of course, there is no reason why :/ Quote:
Oh you have got to be kidding me. I've seen you create your "facts" right out of thin air on multiple occasions when you don't like how the plot turned out, explain away undesirable events, and at times even outright deny what the manga states. Give me a break. |
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