(L) Bakuman (TV) (All Seasons)

[ookamigirl]

Fukuda was pretty cool this time. Total opposite of him was the annoying Ishizawa..
Guess Fukuda is a pretty talented editor ^^ who knew lol
Battle for serialization has begun.... again.
Nice episode.

[ars89]

Spoiler for ep 17:

Wow didn't think Takahama would go straight to the chief. Glad he let Ashirogi hear the conversation. So unfortunately they're stuck with Miura unless they switch companies. As expected they didn't get serialized. The mock meeting with Miyoshi's dad was funny. Niizuma stole the show yet again, glad to have him back and fired up again. Hattori really is a genius. No idea where Ashirogi goes from here though. Maybe get out of gag mangas and do something serious. Glad Katou finally told Nakai straight. He really doesn't deserve to draw again.

[Guardian Enzo]

God damn, I'm pissed at this series and everyone in it right now.

Spoiler for 17:

I knew Sasaki would never, EVER back a writer over an editor - that's just how corporate types work. Alas, "going over their head" never works - Takahama was young and naive, and didn't prepare himself for the meeting as he should have. But Miura's incompetence backed him into a corner.

Can we PLEASE be done with "Tanto" already? That crappy manga is a black hole sucking all the joy out of this series. At least Sasaki was smart enough not to serialize it.

[FlareKnight]

Spoiler for Ep17:

This is why I love Hattori, what a guy . He just took this great opportunity and went right to the top with it. What a brilliant plan to get Niizuma into this. He's talented enough to make it work and if he gets fired up there's not much that will stop him. Just shows the level of editor Hattori is though. Sees this great rival opportunity and is getting right in on it. He knows this girl is good and if her stories can motivate Niizuma then it's good for everyone.

Then you have the direct comparison with Miura. Has no serialized works now and has even managed to make Ashirogi not great. The Chief Editor can say what he wants, but clearly Miura isn't very good. Of course makes the fair argument that they can just go against what he says and try to succeed. But on the other hand it's like attaching an anchor to an author. A good editor helps (like with Hattori) and with someone who can't help bring the work up then it's not going to work out very well.

Do think Ashirogi should dump the gag idea already and try again for a serious story. Sure, Miura isn't going to be any help there, but have got to go with their strengths. Maybe hearing that Niizuma will be teaming up with Takagi's rival might fire them up to go back to their origins.

And of course back to Nakai. At least he somewhat came to his senses by the end. Still he really should head out to the country. If what's more important to him is finding a girl then he shouldn't be drawing. Also agree with Takagi that he brought this on himself. He was a total jerk with Aoki and an idiot with Katou. The fact that his art slipped probably didn't do Takahama any favors either.

Congrats to Aoki who did deserve to get back in there. She worked hard and the help from everyone let her reach this point. Smart move to go with female assistants so she doesn't run into another Nakai type.

Well my sympathies to Miyoshi and Takagi. Their marriage is put on hold until Ashirogi's career gets back on track. If they want to get serialized against whatever Niizuma will be doing they need a whole lot more than Tanto...

[Kakkou]

Wow, I LOVE the new ED. Seeing the authors as kids walking in a line was so sweet. The song was good too. Miho-centric ED will not be missed at all.

I hope this episode means Nakai will be written out of the story for good. Team Fukuda are such kind hearted people to even see him off or in Saiko's case, convince him to stay.

Eiji being asked to draw for Iwase was surprising but boy do I adore every single second of screentime he gets. Nobuhiko Okamoto's performance is so much fun to listen to that I keep replaying those scenes. XD Oh and I liked how Hattori and Yuujirou teamed up once they realised the benefits they stood to gain.

Meanwhile, Ashirogi Muto is still facing problems and Miura isn't getting any better as an editor. Let's see if they can get Tanto serialised or if they'll move to something else though considering that Tanto is getting some merchandise it's safe to say it's not going to be in the story a little longer than their past oneshots. Anyway I'm excited to see where everyone goes from here on!

[Guardian Enzo]

Basically, Sasaki said "If you don't like it, you can quit." But the one piece of decent advice the bastard gave Takahama (and I hope Ashirogi were listening) was "Write something so good your editor will have to take it as is." I think the choice Ashirogi has is quite plain - quit and go to Shounen Sunday (not likely considering where Bakuman is published) or write what they want and force it down Miura's throat.

Now, is it right that an author - especially a pair of 18 year-olds - should have to write with no help from an editor? No - they're effectively fighting with one hand behind their backs, and at a major disadvantage to the likes of Eiji and Otter-boy, who have good editors who can actually help them. But since their editor is an obstacle, their best hope is to make him as irrelevant as possible. That would make any potential success they have that much more GAR.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Basically, Sasaki said "If you don't like it, you can quit." But the one piece of decent advice the bastard gave Takahama (and I hope Ashirogi were listening) was "Write something so good your editor will have to take it as is." I think the choice Ashirogi has is quite plain - quit and go to Shounen Sunday (not likely considering where Bakuman is published) or write what they want and force it down Miura's throat.

Now, is it right that an author - especially a pair of 18 year-olds - should have to write with no help from an editor? No - they're effectively fighting with one hand behind their backs, and at a major disadvantage to the likes of Eiji and Otter-boy, who have good editors who can actually help them. But since their editor is an obstacle, their best hope is to make him as irrelevant as possible. That would make any potential success they have that much more GAR.

Yeah I don't like the stance that they have no choice but to do what they want and force the editor to take it. We saw when they went over Miura's head and wrote a serious story themselves it was only marginally better. It's going to be tough when they don't have an editor like Hattori to support them and bring their level up. Of course can say it's just poor asset management on Sasaki's part. Put authors together with editors that would work well with them. Don't force them to be stuck with someone that is completely on different pages. Really I think all they can do is do something so good and with their serious style that it's clear Miura being their editor wouldn't make sense. Or make it so Miura is the one wanting them to switch. Either way don't think they can reach their goal with an editor like Miura.

[Kakkou]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Basically, Sasaki said "If you don't like it, you can quit." But the one piece of decent advice the bastard gave Takahama (and I hope Ashirogi were listening) was "Write something so good your editor will have to take it as is." I think the choice Ashirogi has is quite plain - quit and go to Shounen Sunday (not likely considering where Bakuman is published) or write what they want and force it down Miura's throat.

As far as this situation is concerned I think calling Sasaki a bastard is unfair. While I do find Miura incompetent and the whole situation unpleasant, the higher ups at Jump can't just bend to every whim of their authors, especially not one who's only reason for requesting a change was "Because he won't let me draw what I want". Well yes, Takahama was at wits end but that move is as unprofessional as Miura's threat of resignation.

Right now what they need to do is not get a new editor but to take Sasaki's advice to heart and improve themselves before they start putting all the blame on others. Saiko & Shujin realised it and decided to do just that, which I found admirable.

[Guido]

Oh, boy, there were a lot of developments going around in this episode that gave ups and downs.

For starters, the corporate world is cold and manga industry is not an exception.

Spoiler:

As many of you pointed out, the Editor-in-Chief Sasaki made his iron stance clear about not picking a mangakas' complaints over an editor.

But, like Mashiro, I do empathize with Takahama's frustration over his serialization ending, because (if anyone please excuse for what I'm about to say) Miura right now has proved to be incompetent on his hunches.

However, the rules are rules, and Sasaki let in Ashirogi Muto along to indirectly teach him that the editorial department is not going to stand for the complaints of mangakas over the editors.

Synergy and mutual understanding must be built in the mangaka-editor relationship in order for the piece to become interesting enough to get serialization.

The world outside of the corporate and industry worlds is even far colder.

Spoiler:

Nakai brought it upon himself.

Sorry, if I'm cold as Takagi, but the workplace is the least of all places to fool around or chatting with such familiarity with your worker peers. However, I do understand that there are many companies out there that have relaxed environments and make not that big of an issue if their workers can take breaks, as long as production doesn't slip down.

Unfortunately, most of the other enterprises have quite strict policies not allowing their workers to socialize with anything else save for the purpose of work performance.

Takahama felt very frustrated and seemed too serious about his manga ending, and Nakai had no sensitivity about focusing more at being professional. Instead, he tries to smooth talk his way to date Katou and got nothing with her.

And, Nakai still has sort of a cynicism to phone Aoki to let him be an assistant for her newest manga serialization. Of course, he thought about that incident and felt bad about, nevertheless, he went to phone her in hopes that she'll let him back.

Conclusion, with everything else he lost because of his own doing, Nakai leaves the city for his hometown leaving forever his dreams as a mangaka much to Mashiro's shock and Fukuda's chagrin.

If we have to make a thorough insight, what seriously change inside Nakai's head to choose dating girls over his dreams about becoming a serialized mangaka?

And how come he sort of abused his position as an assitant and used manga as a venue just to find a cute girl and attempt to date her?

And, sometimes, there are people in the world that resulted surprisingly clever.

Spoiler:

Iwase writing skills to produce manga have left Hattori in possession of a goose that lays golden eggs.

Take her manuscript to the interest of Niizuma Eiji to read and crave for mer, then have Hattori slipping out indirectly that the artist for the art hasn't been decided yet, then follow with Niizuma accepting he'll do the art, now have Niizuma to draw the art if he's a different person under a pen name, followed by Hattori submitting that piece for the committee meeting, and we'll have an awesome serialization that'll force Ashirogi Muto to get fired up in flames.

[Guardian Enzo]

They're making the best of a bad situation, and they deserve credit for realizing that complaining will do them no good. But they're still in this position because Sasaki is a corporate toad who's consistently been more of a hindrance to their career than a help. Forcing a teenaged author to have to try and succeed against the drag effect of a terrible editor is nothing to admire - the fact that Ashirogi might just be good enough to do it is a credit to their talent, not a reflection of anything Sasaki has done.

[FlareKnight]

I couldn't have believed at the start of this second season that Nakai would fall off so badly. Had a good partnership going and his art really was something amazing. Then the serialization failed and he fell with it. Of course possible it might have gone that way regardless since some hints were there. His goal to become serialized got tied together with his interest in Aoki. She turns him down, meets Katou, and suddenly it's all about girls and forget the serialization. Though still can't believe how he turned into such an unlikable jerk. It was so bad I don't even care that he's gone. Mashiro really being left as the only one really upset about this. Fukuda and Aoki might not be particularly happy about him leaving, he did sour his relations before the end.

With Sasaki, sometimes life sucks.

[Kakkou]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

They're making the best of a bad situation, and they deserve credit for realizing that complaining will do them no good.

That's what I found admirable, not Sasaki.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

But they're still in this position because Sasaki is a corporate toad who's consistently been more of a hindrance to their career than a help. Forcing a teenaged author to have to try and succeed against the drag effect of a terrible editor is nothing to admire - the fact that Ashirogi might just be good enough to do it is a credit to their talent, not a reflection of anything Sasaki has done.

Despite all this I can't help but feel Sasaki isn't the corporate toad he appears to be, solely because of his of his advice telling them to get good enough to shut up their editors. I agree with his stance on Takahama's situation for reasons previously stated and in Ashirogi's case I see it as more of him saying "You have the potential, now show it to by shutting Miura up by yourselves"

Heh, maybe I'm just giving him too much benefit of the doubt.

Even if he were a corporate bastard I don't think I'd be able to fully dislike him because well, that's how society works, unfortunately.

[Guido]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

They're making the best of a bad situation, and they deserve credit for realizing that complaining will do them no good. But they're still in this position because Sasaki is a corporate toad who's consistently been more of a hindrance to their career than a help. Forcing a teenaged author to have to try and succeed against the drag effect of a terrible editor is nothing to admire - the fact that Ashirogi might just be good enough to do it is a credit to their talent, not a reflection of anything Sasaki has done.

What purges me a little bit is that Mashiro reflects that complaining over a bad editor is just an excuse for not trying to realize themselves their own mistakes and trying to be more understanding with the editors, when a little earlier he felt empathetic to Takahama about his frustration towards Miura.

Though, Takahama could have talked directly to Miura and argue his case without skipping the editorial chain and going personally to the Editor-In-Chief.

Hence, it feels that whatever morale this episode tries to disclose is that there's no room for complaints and excuses in a competitive environment, but I bet some of you would disagree if said environment or the people in charge of that environment are not helpful or willing to help the people working inside and got stuck with a hindrance.

[Xagzan]

Haha, it's certainly very fun to see people's reactions to the recent character and story developments, for someone who's read the manga. Looks like the general sentiments are Tanto sucks, Miura sucks, Nakai now sucks, and "Holy crap Eiji + Iwase!"

That's about what I expected too

[Guardian Enzo]

Takahama was screwed, basically - I've been in that situation before, and you just feel trapped. He's screwed if he goes along with Miura, screwed if he goes to Sasaki. It's not enough to just say "that's how corporations work" because really good managers know their employees well enough to address problems like this before people like Takahama are pushed out onto a ledge. It doesn't have to be that way - most of the time it just is, though.

In a better world, Miura would be fired because it's clear that he's incompetent. But the company mindset in Japan makes it very, very rare for someone who's been promoted to a position with any authority to ever be terminated. What would most likely happen is that he'd eventually get shuttled off to a job where he can do minimal damage, and largely ignored until retirement. But in the meantime, all the authors he works with are made to suffer.

[thundrakkon]

There are quite a few things that I have disagreed with the mangaka of Bakuman, but today's episode is most frustrating. The stance he puts for the editor in chief is a complete incompetence of that editor in chief. Real good managers know how to use their employees and put the best people who work well together to accomplish things that could not otherwise do by themselves.

By telling the writers that they do not have enough talent if they cannot work with their editor is pure BS. If that is the case, anyone on the street can be Ashirogi's editor, and they would do well. The editor in chief is essentially saying that an idiot can be your editor that only wants to destroy your work, but if you have talent, you'll find a way to make the best work possible.

In reality, you would want to put the best people that work well together. That is what a good manager would do, especially someone who got all the way to the top.

[Anh_Minh]

Yeah, Sasaki's spiel was just a way to put the responsibility for failure all on the shoulders of the mangakas. Which is, in fact, what happens - failures cost the mangakas, but editors don't get fired and just pocket their salaries every month.

The other problem for Ashirogi is that: could Miura recognise a good piece if he saw it? Especially if it's not full of stupid gags?

Rather than Hattori, I'd like to compare Miura to Yamahisa, another young editor. Sure, there is something smarmy about him, but at least he knows better than to coast on the talent of his authors and force them to write what they're unsuited for.

[ookamigirl]

The serialization suspense was pretty interesting to watch.
Nakai & Aoki sure hit an iceberg...
Niizuma doing his thing again, this time a double one! He sure loves to make manga..
On the other hand our favorite pair hit the wall... wonder how they'll get themselves to success lane again.

[Kallen4life]

Iwase/Niizuma OTP !

also Fukuda/Aoki

[FlareKnight]

Spoiler for Ep18:

Will Tanto never die!?

I swear that series is the anchor that can't be shaken off. I hoped that after failing once they'd change gears, but apparently they need this serialization to fail first. Frustrating, but there you have it.

Don't think it's a big deal for Niizuma to draw two. Since he doesn't even need to think about the plot for the second one his attention shouldn't be split up so much. Love the irony that he's doing this mostly to get his rivals fired up.

Iwase really is the type that you almost want to see get knocked down a notch. A ton of pride so having her fail once wouldn't be bad.

Glad for Miyoshi and Takagi since no matter how short Tanto's serialization is they will still get married.

Still curious to see what will happen. No way that Ashirogi can match up against Iwase/Niizuma with this gag manga. Have to wonder as well how far Iwase's pride and rivalry with Takagi can take her with this. Plenty of talent, but she doesn't exactly care about manga.