2008-08-18, 13:41 | Link #41 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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@Green²: That's not true because Share and Perfect Dark are both very prominent Japanese P2P programs, and you can still find pretty much any raw on their networks. What is true is that we now have access to better raws, but those other raw cappers (save the ones that got arrested) are still out there. And whether or not the crackdown on RAW cappers had any real merit for a couple of guys from Japan and overseas to get together is debatable as well. It's more likely fansubbers just wanted to present a better product.
Mentar, I meant fansubbed shows... Maybe the one I commented on was BLASSREITER and that's it. Can't really compare to the amount of discussions I do on other forums and IRC networks. You know, the whole dissemination thing. |
2008-08-18, 16:46 | Link #42 | |
Excessively jovial fellow
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ISDB-T
Age: 37
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2008-08-18, 16:52 | Link #43 | |||||||
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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2008-08-18, 17:31 | Link #44 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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In other words, you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. And if you seriously can't sense how much resentment C&Ds create with fans and fansubbers, you really can't be very much in touch with both scenes. Will there be some fansubbers who would rather quit than go black label? Sure, there will be several. But alot of the veterans I know well (and most of the new guys) would release inofficially without breaking a sweat. If you're really infected with the anime virus, and suddenly someone told you to stop what you've been doing for all the time - you'd stop watching your average of 5-10 shows and purchase DVDs instead? Think again. |
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2008-08-18, 17:57 | Link #45 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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So why did your group stop subbing Slayers if you're such veterans that would do it without breaking a sweat? 'Cause it seems to me you're just angry over the fact that you picked up the soap, in a manner of speaking, and now you're promoting these "fight the power" ideals as if most people really care that much about heart-broken fansubbers. Don't you see your fans and fans of the show *want* you to go black label and release the stuff? It's probably more productive than ranting about it.
Sorry if I'm being too frank here. <.<; |
2008-08-18, 18:17 | Link #46 | |
Excessively jovial fellow
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ISDB-T
Age: 37
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2008-08-18, 18:26 | Link #47 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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Why don't you educate yourself about the facts a bit before you talk? Go to the Slayers thread and see what people think about it. I'd almost suggest to come to the irc channel and listen for yourself, but I amongst several others would prefer not to have you around. This is a joint project, and our partner decided to drop it, so we'll honor this decision. Also, as Fluff said, we wouldn't have the resources now to do it. |
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2008-08-18, 22:56 | Link #49 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Interesting parallel universe you're from
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2008-08-19, 01:24 | Link #52 |
slightly insane
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: California
Age: 40
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I'm actually rather upset by this. I've had a problem with FUNimation for ages anyway (Yu Yu Hakusho-related, the LIARS), and this just makes me want to spend less on their products than I do already. Watching Revolution has been a real joy to me, and now I'm left hanging in the series and madder than ever at FUNi.
I hope the C&Ds inspire some rebellion, mostly because I'm selfish and want more Revolution (and four years of Japanese isn't enough to understand all of it on my own). |
2008-08-19, 02:15 | Link #53 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Wow so thats what happen.
today i was inform by a friend that her friend tried to suicide herself cause of this i wonder if this will be on anime news but my friend recently told me that cause of of the those C&D letter funaction sent out to the groups her friend was trying to overdose and now she is in the hospital. I was like are you serious and she told me, yeah i guess anime could do that to you. i told her if this might be on the news or will she keep herself annoymenous but i'd like to know if its true or not >> if ppl go crazy cause of slayers revolution then don't do anything crazy! whoever is going to bring out slayers revoltuion should do it fast before it crazy like that @_@ |
2008-08-19, 02:55 | Link #54 | |
It's bacon!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Up and to the Left
Age: 43
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IY4Ever² ...no relation... got a C&D from FUNimation.
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2008-08-19, 03:29 | Link #55 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Now, the industry is making a point that it is illegal. It is still poorly enforced, but it is no longer accepted publicly at all. Also, it is not an "insignificant handful" of people, it is the majority of the industry including some of the biggest directors and production studios out there publicly saying "Fansubbing hurts our bottom line". Production IG, the head of Gainax, Gonzo, Shinichiro Watanabe, ADV, FUNi, Bandai, Geneon, Kadokawa, etc have all come out and said this... and these are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head that I could easily source off ANN if I cared to. What they do accept is that it exists and always will in some form. What they do not accept is that it is doing them any favors or that they should be allowed free reign like they used to have. Side note: I actually had written that exact line originally and figured I would get called out on it. Quote:
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I see the "resentment" on forums, IRC, etc. I doubt "how much" actually exists. We have seen it many times before with other titles and previous C&Ds. People claimed the MFI C&D would be the end of the company and they would never buy another MFI title. (Considering MFI titles are still being licensed, I doubt it had any measurable net effect.) I believe (and the numbers seem to back me up) the majority of it is unjustified and not even worth acknowledging. I question a)if it's just a very vocal minority and b) if they actually buy anything at all. Some of the so called resentment basically boils down to "I've been breaking the law and now you are going to try and stop me!? (How dare you!/You have no right!)/(I'm going to spite/boycott your company for it!) (I'm entitled!/I have a right to watch this!/Now I'm going to be behind!)[Create your own typical response]" So, is this actually driving a wedge between the people who matter? I'd guess probably not. If you can bring proof to the contrary (posts like Vexx's are considered a minority and are not substantial proof), I'd love to see it. Disappointment on the other hand, I can agree with and understand. Quote:
(And titles I'm interested in are covered in this C&D. It's just *shrug*. I've been waiting years to finish some shows. I can wait a few months for others.) |
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2008-08-19, 04:50 | Link #56 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 39
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Actually I wonder about that. If I need to wait a year in order to buy me some dvd's the anticipation and everything is going to fade away. I mean as soon as i watched death note trailers I was so hyped about the show. If I waited a year until the dvd's got out, I would have forgotten everything about it and just spent my money somewhere else. Due to fansubs and almost 0 day delivery when it aired I now even own the manga and the live action movie. Anime virus is a nice thing, but if people don't have access to it as it airs in japan, now matter how great the virus is, it will be cured. And let's not talk about how many animes that totally SUCK where I would burn the dvd's if I ever bought them just so that I can stop spreading that shit. Fansubbing is also like a filter for me in order to get some decent shows and not some crap that people can put out nowadays. So basically THEY ARE saying that we who are outside of japan to stop watching anime. I mean if you are an anime watcher have you not been hyped over a series that you really want to watch due to a kickass description and awesome trailers just to due some circumstances you watch it 6months later and you KNOW that you would have enjoyed it 10x better if you could have watched it sooner and you get that "meh" feeling after finishing the series and just try to forget about even watching it. I know I have, and If I can't get my weekly anime fix and posting weekly on anime forums as the episodes are coming out then what is left to do ? |
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2008-08-19, 04:56 | Link #57 | ||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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"Der Mohr hat seine Schuldigkeit getan, der Mohr kann gehen." Quote:
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But: This is the reality. The reality is that anime fans follow an average of 5-10 shows concurrently. The internet with its current distribution model is like programming a VCR: You click on torrents, and some hours later you're able to see the shows - just like you program your system to tape some TV airings to watch once you return home. It's like watching anime on a TV channel. While anime was booming like mad, this internet/fansub-induced growth was happily accepted by the anime industry. Nowadays, people select their shows of choice and know that the fansub world will provide them. Buuut, the rules seem to be gradually changing. Now, it's like you're watching the new season of your favorite TV shows, but suddenly they're taken off the program. Hey, stop watching Galactica right now, purchase it on DVD 3-4 months later! Yay, fun! And this other show you like: Stop watching it in hi-quality in your chair, rather go to this streaming site and watch it in blocky-jerky mode. What? How do you dare complain, you're not entitled to get ANYTHING!!! Ungrateful oaf! In the past, C&Ds have been generally exceptions. I still laugh about the demise of "The Seven Samurai", which fell from high prominence to irrelevance after the C&D - they were annoying, but generally the supply of anime was secured for anime fans. Mosquito bites. They itch, but you live. If now via "power of attourney" trick, the anime studios begin to enforce their rights so that most interesting shows can NOT be followed as fansubs anymore, it's naive not to expect reactions to that. A good analogy might be the time of prohibition in the US. The demand for alcohol was still there, and it was provided - by illegal means, with the unsavory sideeffects. If the anime studios are aware of that and still decide to go ahead, they should not complain about the predictable results. Quote:
As long as no equivalent "legal alternative" is provided, I consider this approach foolish. And sorry: Streaming is no equivalent. And pretending that DVD releases are the way to go for anime fans to continue their hobby is outright ridiculous. That's not how the fans were "raised". And 200+ dollars for DVDs per month is BS, sorry. Quote:
I can see that THE company most vociferous in anti-piracy fighting, ADV, started its campaign at the pinnacle of its influence and power. Now, it seems to be close to its demise. Why? Impossible for us to tell. But as much as you may belittle it - I remember that I bought alot of product from them in the past - EVA, Noir, Bubblegum Crisis etc etc. Then, I stopped doing so, simply because I didn't want to, and spent my money with other labels. I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one. Quote:
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2008-08-19, 06:05 | Link #58 |
Florsheim Monster
Fansubber
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
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I've been considering what Mentar has been suggesting and it seems to me that perhaps it wouldn't be so hard if there was an industry-created program that worked a lot like Sky+ - in other words, a system where you can watch whatever you want, when you want it. Use downloads instead of a satellite TV system, and it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Logistically, you'd have to make sure that the program could only hold downloads for up to a week after download, say, and that it would need to be inaccessible to copying from the program (without using the dreaded DRM). That way, you could have high quality downloads on your computer without too much trouble. Cover it with a subscription fee (I've always thought some kind of anime internet TV station would do fairly well) and there we go, viable alternative. Obviously, some research would have to be done to see if this could be an economic viability and it would have to incorporate most of the R1 companies (like TV shows where DVD sales are a separate revenue to TV viewing), but I think it's a possibility if companies really put their minds to it. I agree with Mentar that enforcement without viable alternatives is a dangerous policy. After all, the music industry (a much bigger industry) only recuperated some of its losses from illegal download sites like Napster by bringing in iTunes and similar legal alternatives. It's about time the anime industry did the same - otherwise it'll be lost in the wave of new technology. |
2008-08-19, 06:22 | Link #59 |
Certified Organic
Join Date: Dec 2005
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a C&D letter is not that big a deal, no need to blow it out of proportions
once they threaten to bring a lawsuit against someone, then there will be huge repercussions and an outward backlash in the industry. that is what the MPAA does and the negative perception that the world has of them speaks for their actions. how many C&D letters has DB received? if any company was going to take offensive action I would think it would be Viz. |
2008-08-19, 06:25 | Link #60 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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Last edited by cyth; 2008-08-19 at 06:36. |
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