Madoka Magica - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Hagoshod]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Timeline 0: (original timeline)
Madoka-0 and Sayaka-0 become magical girls.
Homura-0 joins their school
Madoka-0 and Sayaka-0 get killed by Walpurga-0
Homura-0 makes a contract and travels back in time
TIME LEAP

Actually, Madoka and Mami are the only Magical Girls in the original timeline, with Kyoko being mysteriously absent. This means not only was Sayaka becoming an MG entirely preventable, but it wasn't even supposed to happen.

Homura made an oopsie.

Or maybe she didn't. Maybe she wanted Sayaka to become an MG, and then a Witch, to demonstrate to Madoka why she shouldn't become an MG.

That, or do the timelines just randomly diverge for no reason regardless of how Homura effects them? And how does Homura travel back in time without creating copies of herself?

[Shadow5YA]

Are we sure Madoka isn't getting slightly more powerful with each time loop? She originally lost on the first Walpurgis Night.

If Madoka can vaguely recall what happens from the previous time loops, then maybe she can draw power from her other selves as well. Then she could become a Puella Magi without contracting with the current Kyubey and win on Walpurgis without exhausting her magic power and becoming a Witch.

Remember that in a magazine scan, we see both a normal Madoka and a Puella Magi Madoka together. The same goes for the opening sequence. We see a spiritual Madoka embracing the normal Madoka, transforming her into a Puella Magi without any trace of a Soul Gem. Maybe it's possible for Madoka to bypass Kyubey's system after all.

[Hagoshod]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

If Madoka can vaguely recall what happens from the previous time loops, then maybe she can draw power from her other selves as well. Then she could become a Puella Magi without contracting with the current Kyubey and win on Walpurgis without exhausting her magic power and becoming a Witch.

That would be such a bullshit Deus Ex Machina ending. It'd probably make me go Mami on all the other fans of this show. We'd be better off dead than subjected to that kind of writing.

[serenade_beta]

(ﾟДﾟ)...
Wow, that was pretty awesome... Really nice seeing how Homura became the way she was. Also nice to see the past worlds. Although, it was also funny to see the same characters get killed over and over again. Mami... And through all of this, Homura doesn't get attached to anyone except Madoka. Phew... Talk about obsession. Might even beat some of the craziest Otaku in this world...
Also nice to see Madoka wasn't always this annoying lump of meat that she currently is...

Anyways, great! And I can't wait to see how it ends or how Q-Beh is obliterated from existence or how Entropy takes over the world.

PS: Though Shaft................................. Animation quality....... Never mind.
PPS: The guns, OK... But the bombs? Wow, Japanese girls these days know how to make bombs in their home. Gotta watch out next time I go there.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

That would be such a bullshit Deus Ex Machina ending. It'd probably make me go Mami on all the other fans of this show.

Seeing another Bad End timeloop in the next two episodes is also pointless when we've just had an entire episode for at least four of them.

In the opening, we see Madoka transform with the help of another Madoka. Madoka also recalled Walpurgis Night in ep1, when there should be no way she could because it hasn't happened in her time yet. This isn't coming out of nowhere.

Also, Madoka becoming a Puella Magi without Kyubey would fit the theme of hopes and dreams. By making a contract with Kyubey in the other timelines, she lost hope in the other girls defeating the Witch on Walpurgis Night and had to take it in her own hands.

[Hmm....]

Although I dislike this kind of plotline, I gotta say that the execution is excellence. I enjoyed this episode. As for overall plot, not so much, but I can live with that.

I only have one question though
THEN WHAT"S UP WITH THAT CAT IN THE OP
May be it is not a cat but a troll ?? lol

[DJLowrider]

Originally Posted by Hmm....

I only have one question though
THEN WHAT"S UP WITH THAT CAT IN THE OP
May be it is not a cat but a troll ?? lol

The cat is a lie.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

But the bombs? Wow, Japanese girls these days know how to make bombs in their home. Gotta watch out next time I go there.

Blame Fight Club, and the internet for making shit like The Anarchist's Cookbook easily available.

[Riou17]

Based from the spoilers I read, the plot is like Higurashi with Homura being Rika. Unless Madoka doesn't make a contract with Kyubey and that Walpurgis is defeated, Homura has to jump on another timelime until both requirements are satisfied. So how will Homura meet those requirements? First she has to think of a way to defeat Walpurgis.

Possible ways to defeat Walpurgis:
- Band everyone together. Homura has to group everyone together and make sure they don't get depress too much or they don't break. With all of them working together, I think they stand a chance on defeating it even without Madoka's help.
- Find the source. If Walpurgis was once a MG, Homura can just find this person and either prevent her from making a contract or from being a witch. (Though personally I think this won't even be included on the story.)
- Do what Kyoko did to Sayaka. Though I don't know if her self-destruction is enough to defeat it.

But if it's a certain fact that Walpurgis can only be defeated if Madoka is a MG, then Homura has either have to become stronger or have everyone stay alive by the time Walpurgis comes. That way, Madoka don't have to give all of her powers or become a witch.

About the MG->Witch, I don't know if there is a way to change that or completely remove it. I mean you can't turn an adult woman into a kid again (it's physically impossible but mentally and psychologically possible).

With this kind of plot, I'm not expecting a happy ending where everyone is alive and happy, but I'm not against having a miracle occur.

[gecd]

aw damn
actually my prediction for best anime this year are madoka and steins;gate
but this episode made madoka a sole candidate

Spoiler for now for happy end...:

1. will they wait for miracle? or
2. saisho no omae wo damase?

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Riou17

Possible ways to defeat Walpurgis:
- Band everyone together. Homura has to group everyone together and make sure they don't get depress too much or they don't break. With all of them working together, I think they stand a chance on defeating it even without Madoka's help.
- Find the source. If Walpurgis was once a MG, Homura can just find this person and either prevent her from making a contract or from being a witch. (Though personally I think this won't even be included on the story.)
- Do what Kyoko did to Sayaka. Though I don't know if her self-destruction is enough to defeat it.

But if it's a certain fact that Walpurgis can only be defeated if Madoka is a MG, then Homura has either have to become stronger or have everyone stay alive by the time Walpurgis comes. That way, Madoka don't have to give all of her powers or become a witch.

About the MG->Witch, I don't know if there is a way to change that or completely remove it. I mean you can't turn an adult woman into a kid again (it's physically impossible but mentally and psychologically possible).

With this kind of plot, I'm not expecting a happy ending where everyone is alive and happy, but I'm not against having a miracle occur.

As already mentioned, you have to deal with the MG/Witch system sooner or later (preferably sooner) and using QB as a mean to deal with the situation is flat out impossible.
Furthermore, as suggested by the first loop, banding together won't really do much, and might even aggravate the situation for Madoka.

To be blunt, there is no way to deal with the WN directly, especially that even if you manage to deal with it, it doesn't mean the problem is solved:
-1) nothing guarantees there won't be any WN in the future (since Kyoko knows about it, and she comes from another area).
-2) all the girls remaining as MG isn't no good either: sooner or later, they will turn into witches unless the balance of MG and witches is kept, which basically doesn't fix anything.

Regardless if it is similar to the egg or chicken existential question, the problem is totally on another scale: regardless QB's objective, the girls have to deal with the MG/Witches system, otherwise they are just doomed to no end.
And there is no practical way to erase their conditions as if nothing happened.

[estdesoda]

Today's Kyube:

"Oh man, I think the witch Madoka is going to destroy earth in about 10 days..neh whatever, it's your mankind's problem."

Loved it.

[MaiNoKen]

"Oh man, I think the witch Madoka is going to destroy earth in about 10 days..neh whatever, it's your mankind's problem."

Die QB Die.

[DJLowrider]

Originally Posted by MaiNoKen

Die QB Die.

May I refer you to my latest fan creation then: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...27#post3525427

Enjoy.

[gecd]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

As already mentioned, you have to deal with the MG/Witch system sooner or later (preferably sooner) and using QB as a mean to deal with the situation is flat out impossible.
Furthermore, as suggested by the first loop, banding together won't really do much, and might even aggravate the situation for Madoka.

To be blunt, there is no way to deal with the WN directly, especially that even if you manage to deal with it, it doesn't mean the problem is solved:
-1) nothing guarantees there won't be any WN in the future (since Kyoko knows about it, and she comes from another area).
-2) all the girls remaining as MG isn't no good either: sooner or later, they will turn into witches unless the balance of MG and witches is kept, which basically doesn't fix anything.

Regardless if it is similar to the egg or chicken existential question, the problem is totally on another scale: regardless QB's objective, the girls have to deal with the MG/Witches system, otherwise they are just doomed to no end.
And there is no practical way to erase their conditions as if nothing happened.

the key is madoka's wish

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by gecd

the key is madoka's wish

Unless Madoka plays a lot with semantics and QB becomes incredibly stupid, I can't see it happening: QB needs the bad end, because what he seeks is Madoka's energy as she -turns- into the worst witch ever.
And we know by fact she is doomed to be if she turns into a MG, and there is no way in frozen hell that QB would be fine to turn Madoka into an MG, if the system itself is wrecked at the same time. That's shooting your own foot for retarded reason.

And at this point, it is extremely doubtful to have a miracle wish that fix everything in a single instance, otherwise there wouldn't be any problem to begin with.

[TnAdct1]

If you want my opinion (and this is from someone whose only seen episode 5 of the series, although he's following the episode summaries), I think one of the biggest problems with Homura's attempts to stop this is her way of doing it, more specifically her:

1. Not trying to actually befriend Madoka and Sayaka upon arriving in this timeline;

2. Considering Mami and Kyouko to be lost causes from the start and siding against them.

Face it, even if she's a time traveller, that doesn't mean she has to keep everything to herself and not make friends. After all, look at Mikuru from Haruhi and Chao from Negima.

That is why I feel that Homura should just consider this timeline to be a lost cause: no matter what's going to happen, this is going to end up as a "bad end". However, if she enters a timeline similar to the current one and not act like a jerk, she can fix the mistakes that she made in this one. Among the tips:

-Once transferring to Madoka's school, actually attempt to befriend her and Sayaka.

-Ignore the fact that Mami and Kyouko have made contracts with Kyubey and work together with them (while ensuring that not only they have enough Grief Seeds in preparation for Walpurgisnacht, but that neither of them die or become witches until then).

-Inform Madoka and Sayaka about the truth when it comes to Kyubey and being a mahou shoujo (once they've gotten to know each other better but before Sayaka becomes one), and make them promise to keep this a secret from Mami and Kyouko.

-Aren't there any other mahou shoujos in Japan besides those five? If so, try to contact them and inform them about Walpurgisnacht so that way there'd be more than just her, Mami, and Kyouko fighting (as well as someone who can take care of the mahou shoujos who end up becoming witches in this attack).

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Unless Madoka plays a lot with semantics and QB becomes incredibly stupid, I can't see it happening: QB needs the bad end, because what he seeks is Madoka's energy as she -turns- into the worst witch ever.
And we know by fact she is doomed to be if she turns into a MG, and there is no way in frozen hell that QB would be fine to turn Madoka into an MG, if the system itself is wrecked at the same time. That's shooting your own foot for retarded reason.

And at this point, it is extremely doubtful to have a miracle wish that fix everything in a single instance, otherwise they wouldn't be any problem to begin with.

... or Madoka draws power from her other selves and becomes a Puella Magi without a contract with Kyubey. That one magazine had two Madokas side by side, and the opening has Madoka transforming with the help of another version of her.

Her vision of Walpurgis Night in ep1 and her "have I met you from somewhere before?" to Homura in ep8 could be fragments of memories from herself in other timelines. Otherwise, it does not make sense that Madoka can remember an event that has not happened yet in her time.

[totoum]

Since I don't speak japanese maybe someone can help me with this.

In the timeline before this one,how come madoka and the others did not become MGs?Was QB not harassing them?

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

... or Madoka draws power from her other selves and becomes a Puella Magi without a contract with Kyubey. That one magazine had two Madokas side by side, and the opening has Madoka transforming with the help of another version of her.

Her vision of Walpurgis Night in ep1 and her "have I met you from somewhere before?" to Homura in ep8 could be fragments of memories from herself in other timelines. Otherwise, it does not make sense that Madoka can remember an event that has not happened yet in her time.

That's why I put emphasis on QB involvement.
If Madoka is the key to save the day, another alternative than "QB MG" is required.
However, it's very likely that the MG/Witch phenomenom existed before the incubators came, because QB states they "discovered" this type of energy with that. It is doubtful they would coincidentally create this scheme, toy here and there and suddenly finds out about this result, so it is very likely this system is already in place.

Instead of a MG, Madoka will have to get through the limitations or be something "completely different". That or destroying the system, which will be 2 birds with one stone.