Romance in Code Geass (take 4)

[yvj]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

It was mostly kinda an exaggeration of mine, i'm sorry i stretched it too far.
S

You mean it was bait to get people back into the romance thread XD

Originally Posted by Levy

You were not offensive, don't worry about that, I just wanna make clear that neither I neither the majority of people here are saying they are not 100% sure of Lelouch's feeling toward Kallen because they hate her. It's not so, and I wish that kalulu fans would agree with this at least...

1) I don't care what happens in other places where I do not post, like 2ch or the wide wide world, complaining about the shit Kallen get elsewhere here won't lead us to anything but a bit of wank, not even that juicy, and that's all...

I'll say this the only reason I responded was someone saying that don't see why Kalulu are so confident. So I responded accordingly.


Paranoid mode: Haters disguise themselves compromising usually lasts for only a few posts and then you get a sense of what a person has in mind. There are some classic example of this that I've seen a million times before. Not too much hate here however but you can never be too sure......... /paranoid mode

[bladeofdarkness]

no one quesions the kiss scene becouse it came at the end of a season long development and 2 near kisses already
the reaction wasnt so much "OMG they kissed" as it was "finally, about damn time"

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Levy

There's nothing BAD in Kallen being persuaded that Lelouch loved her.
But, no matter how much is lost in translation, you can't say that her being sure of this it's 100% sure PROOF of Lelouch loving her back.

100% proof is rough. Not likely to get it, and yes there's the possibility it can all turn around tomorrow. And Lelouch is dead. So y'know.

I'll say this if I was a lawyer I'd certainly be more willing to argue for kalulu than anything else.

For one thing it's not 100% that you need someone's (Lelouch) words to find out his intentions.

Originally Posted by Levy

...could be, could be not, it's her word and not his.
I can see all of your reason for believing that she's right in that, still, I can't see how it's so hard for you to accept that someone still keeps being skepticall without whining about the HATE toward her character this implies.
It's not always like that, moreover here.

relax people! we love Karen-chan... ...it's just... not even us are Lelouch! *is shot* =P

Skeptical is fine (To me) Dismissal I am not as fond of

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by yvj

You mean it was bait to get people back into the romance thread XD

"Like you like an Arsonist" is one of my favorite songs afterall. |DD;
{i honestly do not know, what this thread would do without me 8DD}

But seriously, i think the "issue" with KallenxLelouch is that, it is not so explicit-canon as other pairings in kinda similar series like this, it is not SimonxNia, nor SajixLouise for example. Because, that is not the way Geass was constructed.
{Lulu-harem-guy, other LI, rebellion etc.}
The way i see it and i feel it is, is that is KallenxLelouch is underline-canon, that only if you look really close you will see it.
It is not 9439340 "Kalulu covers zomg!" or the way we are used to see mostly canon pairings, because Kalulu does not fit this category and never will.
It is like Kallen in the ending, she just smiles in the Lulu-pic, because she knows the truth. No need for the whole world to know.
eta: btw, i just find it really funny that the Kalulu kiss occurred in the only moment they were not interrupted.

Originally Posted by yvj

I'll say this the only reason I responded was someone saying that don't see why Kalulu are so confident. So I responded accordingly.

The way, this thread goes, mark my words::

It is like, we are all on a final of a football competition.

Kalulu team vs CCxLulu team. {Shirlulu forfeited because a lot of players were ill, so it was knocked out from the semi-finals}
It is like, 4-4 and the match approaches its end. When suddenly, Guren kick and "GOALLL!"
Kalulu players start to celebrate, but a few of them, are doing the jazz-middle-finger on the viewers. Majority of the viewers are CCxL team fans, so most of them are getting irritated, because ok, it is not the best behavior to go "nanananana" on their face, so all of them starting to shout that the goal is "fraud" according to rules and jump into the football field, starting kicking referee, players and there is a mess.
Most Kalulu players, being hot-headed by default are going "%#$%$" as well and boom-bam-raw, invite their fans to join the mess too and one accuses the other and the game has still not finished.
Marching till the day the sun goes blue.

{rofl, i deserve an epic applause for this so true metaphor |DDD;}

[Nogitsune]

*agrees with Levy*

Originally Posted by incorrupts

The way, this thread goes, mark my words::

It is like, we are all on a final of a football competition.

Kalulu team vs CCxLulu team. {Shirlulu forfeited because a lot of players were ill, so it was knocked out from the semi-finals}
It is like, 4-4 and the match approaches its end. When suddenly, Guren kick and "GOALLL!"
Kalulu players start to celebrate, but a few of them, are doing the jazz-middle-finger on the viewers. Majority of the viewers are CCxL team fans, so most of them are getting irritated, because ok, it is not the best behavior to go "nanananana" on their face, so all of them starting to shout that the goal is "fraud" according to rules and jump into the football field, starting kicking referee, players and there is a mess.
Most Kalulu players, being hot-headed by default are going "%#$%$" as well and boom-bam-raw, invite their fans to join the mess too and one accuses the other and the game has still not finished.
Marching till the day the sun goes blue.

And then there are those weird people in the audience that support neither side, but still try to get their hands on the ball almost from the start - simply because they are weird like that.
They can be terrible fangirls, and sometimes they get so confused that they start playing tennis instead, which leads to everyone else staring at them while they shout weird things like: "Clovis!" and "Yes, the sword, people, the sword!"
It's really all very strange. *nods her head solemnly*

And yes, I felt a bit left out. xD

{rofl, i deserve an epic applause for this so true metaphor |DDD;}

*gives you an epic applause*
Definitely awesome. xD

[Levy]

*epic applause* it was hilarious...XD

and Nogi, I think you fit well in the role of those guys that run naked at football matches... how are they called ..? XD

@yvj: fine, you have all the rights to answer when people ask stuff... I just felt to point out, and I said to Son, that there's nothing like Kallen's hate at least from the majority of us, because it has been more or less explicitly brought up very frequently recently, and I don't think that there's any need to talk about it here, that's all.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

And then there are those weird people in the audience that support neither side,

Well i mostly belong to the "normal" people that support neither side and are like this when they see all the mess and $@#$::



but i happen to support football and support more the team that is playing in a high-heaven mode. Can't help it, i have the winner-fight-spirit, ace-fan. |DD;

Well seriously, i just think we should all enjoy the romance-game and even if we disagree, we have to at least be polite about it. That was the point of my poetic-metaphor.
Because in the end, no one wins if there is no good-will from both sides and no point will ever come across. :x

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by Levy

*epic applause* it was hilarious...XD

and Nogi, I think you fit well in the role of those guys that run naked at football matches... how are they called ..? XD

@yvj: fine, you have all the rights to answer when people ask stuff... I just felt to point out, and I said to Son, that there's nothing like Kallen's hate at least from the majority of us, because it has been more or less explicitly brought up very frequently recently, and I don't think that there's any need to talk about it here, that's all.

The back up to the Kallen's hate arguments was provided by me, to sho to some people that yeah, I'm living on the same planet than them. Suzaku's hate was during the serie, and died at the end; For Kallen it was the reverse, nd most of the time, for shipping reasons.

Thus, the point was to answer to another point.

Sky : Epic. Simply Epic.
And so, others CluClu fans are the hoolligans ? Ahahahahaha ! *joke inside*
Kalulu fans can't loose. Cause we are RAGING for our pairing. The truth (and the side stuff) give us wings

Now about the whole "Kallen believes Lulu loves her" (well it's already an amazing step. People finally accept that Kallen doesn't use Aishiteru for Eye candy ?) I think if we had the others stuff (Kallen understood Lelouch's feelings for example) it's kinda hard to not see a correlation.
It's like 1+1..
And through Kallen, the staff is talking, and I don't see the point to make of Kallen a delusional girl when she clearly wasn't during all of the serie.
(And Kallen knows the truth better than anyone. Lelouch's tongue was in HER mouth )

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

The back up to the Kallen's hate arguments was provided by me, to sho to some people that yeah, I'm living on the same planet than them. Suzaku's hate was during the serie, and died at the end; For Kallen it was the reverse, nd most of the time, for shipping reasons.

Thus, the point was to answer to another point.

Sky : Epic. Simply Epic.
And so, others CluClu fans are the hoolligans ? Ahahahahaha ! *joke inside*
Kalulu fans can't loose. Cause we are RAGING for our pairing. The truth (and the side stuff) give us wings

I said "most" of them "forced" to become rave-fans but originally a few Kalulu fans were middle-finger them. |DD;
It is a situation that just leads to mess. 8DD
{but..goal was goal lol}

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

Now about the whole "Kallen believes Lulu loves her" (well it's already an amazing step. People finally accept that Kallen doesn't use Aishiteru for Eye candy ?) I think if we had the others stuff (Kallen understood Lelouch's feelings for example) it's kinda hard to not see a correlation.
It's like 1+1..
And through Kallen, the staff is talking, and I don't see the point to make of Kallen a delusional girl when she clearly wasn't during all of the series.
(And Kallen knows the truth better than anyone. Lelouch's tongue was in HER mouth )

It is totally between the underlines, but that of course does not mean it does not exist. Quite the opposite. And frankly, i appreciate is so much more that way.
It's just, most people anticipate the usual-canon-ness, when Geass's romance, was not supposed to be like this by default. When it came to Lelouch at least.

ETA: People that dislike KallenxLelouch together, does not mean they automatically hate Kallen. But most of the times, when a chara is not your cup of tea, it goes with the whole package. {meaning the one she is being paired of}
Because when you like a chara, you like seeing that chara interacting with people that make him/her happy, in this occasion for Kallen, that person is Lelouch. And a lot of times, when Kalulu interactions came up, a few people were like "UGHHHH."

[willyvereb]

Ok i think Lelouch was realy uncertain...not to mention that he's a "proffessional" actor or at least a master class deciever...
ok my thoughts(and the percentage of he loves the mentioned girl:
- he thought fondly about Shirley and somewhat loved her. Chance: 10%
- he cared about Karen in a great deal and realy emberassed whatever he got with her some kind of "close situation". Chance 25%
-She cared about CC even tough he know she's immortal, the only one he considered partner(perhaps this is a bit obvious because his Geass from her). Chance:55%
And what about the other 20%? there's 10% chance in my book that he was a SisCon(so he loved Nunally in a romantic way). And the remaining 10% is the chance that he loved no one in a romantic way...
Why got CC that high chance?
She was the only one he considered partner and even in R2 where there's a strong Kalulu vibe he showed some very strong emotion to her in some scenes(much stronger than to Kallen in the whole series). For example:
-at ep 15 in the World of C he's willing to do anything to "save" CC...
-And at ep 24 he was realy gratefull to CC and ready to kiss her.

[Levy]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

People that dislike KallenxLelouch together, does not mean they automatically hate Kallen. But most of the times, when a chara is not your cup of tea, it goes with the whole package. {meaning the one she is being paired of}
Because when you like a chara, you like seeing that chara interacting with people that make him/her happy, in this occasion for Kallen, that person is Lelouch. And a lot of times, when Kalulu interactions came up, a few people were like "UGHHHH."

In general, it frequently happens. In a story like Geass, where the romance plot is not central and there's plenty of other girls after Lelouch, well, it can also be not the case.
And there are various degrees of 'not liking'. One may not like a pairing because he loves another one better - not everyone is a multishiper - simply not finding it appealing or hating it like the plague... there's a wide range of 'not being a fan'.

Also, keep in mind that Kallen was slightly falling for him already, but not that head over heels for Lelouch for all s1, it's enough for fans to learn to love her beside the fact she harboured those deep, absolute feelings for him by the end of r2. It's differently from Shirley, that was introduced like being in love with Lelouch without a doubth from the very start.
TBH, I sensed Kallen->Lelouch coming from their first interactions, but there was also a possibility that it won't have took that route, or at least, that it won't have been developed as much as it was in r2.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by willyvereb

Ok i think Lelouch was realy uncertain...not to mention that he's a "proffessional" actor or at least a master class deciever...
ok my thoughts(and the percentage of he loves the mentioned girl:
- he thought fondly about Shirley and somewhat loved her. Chance: 10%
- he cared about Karen in a great deal and realy emberassed whatever he got with her some kind of "close situation". Chance 25%
-She cared about CC even tough he know she's immortal, the only one he considered partner(perhaps this is a bit obvious because his Geass from her). Chance:55%
And what about the other 20%? there's 10% chance in my book that he was a SisCon(so he loved Nunally in a romantic way). And the remaining 10% is the chance that he loved no one in a romantic way...
Why got CC that high chance?
She was the only one he considered partner and even in R2 where there's a strong Kalulu vibe he showed some very strong emotion to her in some scenes(much stronger than to Kallen in the whole series). For example:
-at ep 15 in the World of C he's willing to do anything to "save" CC...
-And at ep 24 he was realy gratefull to CC and ready to kiss her.

Fair enough. He was ready to kiss Kallen in episode 7 for sure {but this is a "whorish" moment supposed so let us leave it like this} and according to your logic, i can say, that he was ready to kiss Kallen in episode 9 as well.
He also went all wacko about saving her in episode 10+11, so what else is there?
Why do you give C.C more percentage than Kallen?
Oh and btw, it was stated that he only saw C.C as "equal".

[Grey Dawn]

Originally Posted by willyvereb

Ok i think Lelouch was realy uncertain...not to mention that he's a "proffessional" actor or at least a master class deciever...
ok my thoughts(and the percentage of he loves the mentioned girl:
- he thought fondly about Shirley and somewhat loved her. Chance: 10%
- he cared about Karen in a great deal and realy emberassed whatever he got with her some kind of "close situation". Chance 25%
-She cared about CC even tough he know she's immortal, the only one he considered partner(perhaps this is a bit obvious because his Geass from her). Chance:55%
And what about the other 20%? there's 10% chance in my book that he was a SisCon(so he loved Nunally in a romantic way). And the remaining 10% is the chance that he loved no one in a romantic way...
Why got CC that high chance?
She was the only one he considered partner and even in R2 where there's a strong Kalulu vibe he showed some very strong emotion to her in some scenes(much stronger than to Kallen in the whole series). For example:
-at ep 15 in the World of C he's willing to do anything to "save" CC...
-And at ep 24 he was realy gratefull to CC and ready to kiss her.

The staff sunk any chance CC and Lelouch had as a pairing. Chance: 0%

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Levy

and Nogi, I think you fit well in the role of those guys that run naked at football matches... how are they called ..? XD[/SIZE]

rofl!
I have no idea what they are called, either, but I love you. xD

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Well i mostly belong to the "normal" people that support neither side and are like this when they see all the mess and $@#$::



but i happen to support football and support more the team that is playing in a high-heaven mode. Can't help it, i have the winner-fight-spirit, ace-fan. |DD;

Well seriously, i just think we should all enjoy the romance-game and even if we disagree, we have to at least be polite about it. That was the point of my poetic-metaphor.
Because in the end, no one wins if there is no good-will from both sides and no point will ever come across. :x

*-*
I like that. *nods her head happily*
Now if you just let me hug you...

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

The back up to the Kallen's hate arguments was provided by me, to sho to some people that yeah, I'm living on the same planet than them. Suzaku's hate was during the serie, and died at the end; For Kallen it was the reverse, nd most of the time, for shipping reasons.

Thus, the point was to answer to another point.

Sadly, it's a point that can only be proven by statistics, because we all know that Kallen isn't everyone's favourite.
But I don't think it's important how much hate a character gets. It's more important where he gets it and how much it annoys the fans.
For example, I see much more fanfics that either bash or simply disregard Suzaku. And I couldn't care less about people simply complaining about him - I don't even notice it most of the time... but when I read a fanfic, and suddenly it's "oh yeah, and Suzaku is a complete bastard and Lulu knows it" out of nowhere, it annoys me a bit (not as much as people who put him on a pedestal and throw around uke!Lelouch, but... well). xD

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

*-*
I like that. *nods her head happily*
Now if you just let me hug you...

Again the hug-concept? Really? |DD;

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Sadly, it's a point that can only be proven by statistics, because we all know that Kallen isn't everyone's favourite.
But I don't think it's important how much hate a character gets. It's more important where he gets it and how much it annoys the fans.

I tend to disagree here. Hating or strongly disliking a character kinda "forces" someone, not to be open-minded when things tend to favor the certain chara.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Again the hug-concept? Really? |DD;

What can I say?
I'm persistent. xD

I tend to disagree here. Hating or strongly disliking a character kinda "forces" someone, not to be open-minded when things tend to favor the certain chara.

I see what you mean, but really, would you take someone's opinion seriously who barges into this thread and screams: "I hate Kallen! Lelouch was madly in love with Odysseus - and that's it!"
If someone tells me Suzaku and Lelouch weren't best friends again because Suzaku is a bastard, I'll raise my eyebrow at them and shrug. Of course I'll offer them my opinion (and official statements), but I won't get worked up over it, because I know they are biased - really biased.
The whole fandom could support them, and I'd still not take that as proof for anything. But if there are people who actually like Suzaku (and Lelouch) and agree with them, I'll take a closer look and join the discussion.
...Did I just forget what my point was? Oh well. xD

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

rofl!
I have no idea what they are called, either, but I love you. xD

Douchebags. That's what they're called.

Anyway, in regard to what's been said. I have yet to see the majority of this supposed Kallen-hate that's been going around. I guess because this is the only CG forum I visit. Even so, I'm not totally sure how I stand with Kallen either.

If there was a reason for me to dislike Kallen, I guess it's because maybe sometimes the show or the fans make her out to be this damsel-in-distress character at times and adopt this "poor baby" attitude (I think some of that energy could be better focused towards Shirley and other characters) Comparatively speaking, I think Kallen got off pretty easy. And yes, I know you're not supposed to let fans ruin a character/show/couple for you and sometimes it's only natural for people to sympathize with a character, but sometimes I think it goes a little too far. Seriously though, I'm not 100% on this, I'm just throwing ideas/perceptions out there. But I guess this might very well be better-suited for the Kallen thread.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

What can I say?
I'm persistent. xD

Aah, kay. 8D

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

I see what you mean, but really, would you take someone's opinion seriously who barges into this thread and screams: "I hate Kallen! Lelouch was madly in love with Odysseus - and that's it!"
If someone tells me Suzaku and Lelouch weren't best friends again because Suzaku is a bastard, I'll raise my eyebrow at them and shrug. Of course I'll offer them my opinion (and official statements), but I won't get worked up over it, because I know they are biased - really biased.
The whole fandom could support them, and I'd still not take that as proof for anything. But if there are people who actually like Suzaku (and Lelouch) and agree with them, I'll take a closer look and join the discussion.
...Did I just forget what my point was? Oh well. xD

Why do you use such an extreme example? |DD;
I am talking about things, that i have come across in this board.
I remember in the middle of R2, that Kallen was "labeled" as male-lady-like, and that the dress that she wore the time she was captured was disgusting.
And that a reason Lelouch could never have romantic feelings about Kallen, was her physical appearance. lulz
I mean, those people obviously missed episode 7 or just, i don't know. It never occurred to them, that Lelouch might actually like someone, that is identical to him in a lot of aspects.
I brought up that example, because that clearly shows that the "ughh" towards Kallen, a lot of time ties with Lelouch.

As for what you said, "L+S being not best friends, because Suzaku is a bastard", that quote, whoever would say this, i would probably be a lot "eh?", because "Suzaku being a bastard or not" has no relevance to relationship.
One form of love {that can be proven dangerous, i will admit} is loving someone else, even if he has done horrid things. {see Shirley for example}
And btw, since you mentioned it, it just hit me again, {i took a journey to the past-days lol} i just love double standards.
When Lelouch and Suzaku tried to kill each other for their reasons, then "oh well, they still have a deep bond inside" <--which btw, i do agree.
When Kallen was ready to kill him, then "noes! it is jealously or she hates him etc."
So i guess, Kallen fans have a bit of point to say what they say about biased fans and not.
Same goes with CCxL fans, that loled when a few Kalulu fans said that Lelouch did hate C.C, when in #24 it was proven exactly the opposite. But that did happen only once, the "Kallen git out" happens much more.

It is just a weird never-ending circle. |D;

ETA: @Nobody:: I did not got your point to be honest, what do you mean?

[willyvereb]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Fair enough. He was ready to kiss Kallen in episode 7 for sure {but this is a "whorish" moment supposed so let us leave it like this} and according to your logic, i can say, that he was ready to kiss Kallen in episode 9 as well.
He also went all wacko about saving her in episode 10+11, so what else is there?
Why do you give C.C more percentage than Kallen?
Oh and btw, it was stated that he only saw C.C as "equal".

-The almost kiss in ep 7 is means nothing because i think he would have done it to even Rakshata in that situation or any other women under him...
-There's no "almost kiss" in ep 9, perhaps maybe Karen would like to do it...but Lelouch's promise can be considered a "marriage proposal", so who knows...that's why i gave her 25%
-ep 10 and 11 not so big, because he would be worried for almost every key figures in his "game"...in CC's case(ep 15) he could have worried about his life more...

In the end Karen become his enemy and he formed a more closer relationship with CC so in the end i think most probably he loved CC if anyone of his "harem"...perhaps it's not sure.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

ETA: @Nobody:: I did not got your point to be honest, what do you mean?

Nothin'. Just me rambling. Forget I said anything

EDIT: No seriously. What I was trying to say is that I think Kallen is pitied more than she should be, and that kind of irks me. That's all.