2009-05-14, 10:01 | Link #81 |
I'll end it before April.
Join Date: Jul 2008
|
It's you who don't understand Miss -_- Well I send you a PM in French because it will be more easy for me . But video games and music are different. I'm talking about music here not video game so please don't put it in the discussion. And sorry but where I said that majors did illegal thing O_o I only said they're bad wolf because they don't want to lose their privilege.
My point illogical where ? As I said it's a problem but I think we can resolv it, so where it's illogical ? And here is the problem, you're thinking with the old system view not with the new one with internet. Wha'ts the better here, to add 7euro to your internet subscription and download every music you want or to download everything you want for free. What's the best answer ? Hadopi which will not change anything or a GL which is a good first answer ? (even if there is still some problem like the distribution) And with a GL you won't steal anything since it will be legal. So.. And sorry but where I said that stealing music is a good thing ? You said that I need to read your post but are you sure that you understood mine ? Et c'est toi qui me fait taper la tête contre le mur pas moi >_<
__________________
Last edited by Kusa-San; 2009-05-14 at 13:12. |
2009-05-14, 12:03 | Link #82 |
ひきこもりアイドル
IT Support
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pennsylvania , United States
Age: 34
|
This is a very bad law what they past... what happens if someone like a neighbor piggybacks on your wireless connection and pirate movies or software and you get hit with a penalty when you never pirated in your life? There are flaws in this law already because it can punish innocent people and also it's very difficult to monitor millions on the internet. Also, this law also raise privacy concerns because the ISP can now view all your unencrypted packets.
I like to reiterate that piracy or file sharing does not equal to stealing. Stealing is considered taking someone's property without intent and the point with Piracy, it's not physical nor it equates to a lost sale because the sale wasn't made in the first place. Stealing can be seen as taking a CD from a music store without paying. If piracy is considered stealing, is lending a music cd or a DVD to a friend be considered stealing because another person can rip the CD/DVD or listen/view it without making another sale? If they really want to prevent piracy, they should reduce the price of DVDs and CDs so people will less likely to pirate... and also stop using restrictive DRM schemes so that people can use the files on any device... or they can add a small flat fee to the ISP bill so that the companies can recoup the cost... but in the end of the day, it's not possible to stop piracy once and for all... there are still going to be a few people that will still be doing it. So yes, this bill is a big failure and hurts people's freedoms and privacy... Yet's hope the European Union strucks the law down.
__________________
|
2009-05-14, 13:41 | Link #83 | |||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
|
Quote:
Unfortunately, yes and no. Ideas have "value", in the sense that it took resources to produce, for example, the number of man-hours taken to produce a software application. The number of years a musician took to learn how to play an instrument perfectly, to learn how to sing. The time spent on painting a masterpiece, and so on. Or, to use an example that's even easier to relate to, a student's handwritten or typed essay. How would you evaluate the "worth" of the essay? By the paper it's printed on (as good as worthless)? Or by the amount of analysis, research and time spent on crafting a prize-winning argument? So, what happens, then, if some cheat happens on the essay, plagiarises it word-for-word, and then passes it off as his own work? He didn't "steal" the paper that the original essay was written on, certainly, but he most definitely "stole" the effort put in by the original student, by copying his idea without permission or giving due credit. Quote:
Digital online distribution, unfortunately, has complicated the whole affair, and till now, no country has yet been able to come up with a satisfactory solution. Content, which has intrinsic value, has become so massively distributable, that they appear almost valueless, and therefore not worth protecting, it appears. Quote:
But the principle remains: Content has value. The trick, however, is in getting users to pay for it. |
|||
2009-05-14, 14:15 | Link #84 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Le Mans, France
|
Quote:
That the way the law works : 1. the copyright holder create a list (list partially changed every month) of thing (music/video/...) that should be monitored and send it to the HADOPI. 2. The HADOPI ask companies (like BayTSP) to find (French) IP of people who download what is present on this list. 3. The HADOPI give that list of IP to the ISP to know who is behind each IP. 4. The HADOPI send an email to the pirate. 5. After a period of time (probably more than 1 month) if your name appear a second time, a letter is sent to your home + an email. 6. After a period of time (probably more than 1 month) If your name appear a third time, the HADOPI decide to cut your Internet connexion for 1 month to 1 year. When your connexion is cut you have to pay your ISP like normal and you can't take a new subscription with another ISP. After point 6. you can defend yourself against the HADOPI, your connexion will stay cut, and you will have to prove that you are not guilty (that your connexion has been pirated), the HADOPI don't have "real' proof that you are guilty (no search at your home/in your computer). The letter/email that are sent to you, won't have a single information about what you have supposedly downloaded, and you won't be able to know that until you go speak with the HADOPI to defend yourself. |
|
2009-05-14, 16:12 | Link #86 |
Nani ?
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Emerald Forest ( yes its a real place. )
|
I'm more surprised at how many French people are supporting and/or are neutral towards this law. I have no idea what the media brainwashing and information control techniques that the French government is using on it's people are, but they must be pretty damn effective.
|
2009-05-14, 16:22 | Link #87 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Actually, there will be people who compare the people who support HADOPI to the milice of WWII. Just looting off whatever leftover supplies for their own good.
__________________
|
|
2009-05-14, 16:40 | Link #88 | |
Emotionless White Face
Join Date: Feb 2008
|
Quote:
Some parents for example, are supporting of this law. They have some reasons to think like that. Last edited by Narona; 2009-05-14 at 18:23. |
|
2009-05-15, 01:33 | Link #89 |
I'll end it before April.
Join Date: Jul 2008
|
Well it's a false statement to say "How many french people are supporting this law" since the government don't really care about this. If they want to pass their law, they will pass it and impose it. And it's what they have done They impose their law and don't care at all about opinion (that's why I really don't like this government).
__________________
Last edited by Kusa-San; 2009-05-15 at 02:07. |
2009-05-15, 02:51 | Link #90 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
|
It sounds rather like:
1) an end-run around due process 2) the corporatists win another round with Sarkozy's blessing. 3) renormalization of copyright, patent, and trademark law gets deferred again. TRL's discussion of "intellectual property" is interesting in that its *nice* to get compensation for your idea. However, the idea of this imaginary artifact being bought and sold (corporations slurping up ideas or creations and then extending IP protections into infinity) makes the current path eventually far more stifling of creation and innovation than no protections at all would. Mankind made quite a lot of progress with "no protections at all".... whereas now, a creator/inventor or even a corporation can find it hard to breathe without tripping over the "eternal protections" that litter the landscape. Any artist or creator knows you do the performance and you might get compensated if people like it. The air of entitlement is hard to defend in historical context --- and considering the loudest defenders of this are NOT the creators but the corporations which have ensnared the rights (many artists hardly see a dime for their effort) I'd say its not as clearcut as they'd like to play it. But as Narona herself says: Quote:
Technically and legally, legal precedent is leaning towards the fact that an IP address does not equal a person. ISP records of dynamic IP assignment are not faultless. Even if an IP assignment was recorded correctly, the possibility exists that the incident was a result of wireless "wardriving" or someone's friend visiting or... if the law makes the individual legally responsible for their network security then a whole lot of the population is in serious trouble (not that I might not like people to held legally responsible for their network security ). Review RIAA case history for how messy and ill-executed this may play out.
__________________
Last edited by Vexx; 2009-05-15 at 03:04. |
|
2009-05-15, 03:02 | Link #91 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Since the company heads are already earning alot, this pretty much proves how greedy they have become at the top.
__________________
|
|
2009-05-15, 03:18 | Link #92 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
|
Ask many artists under contract and you'll find that they're told many of their projects never make a dime in profit according to the corporation's computation of the artist's take.... yet overall the corporation rakes in huge profits when they talk to their shareholders.
Magical accounting 101. And artists who try to execute independently find they're shut out of venues because of "exclusive contracts" the big company has with the venue.
__________________
|
2009-05-15, 03:37 | Link #93 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2009-05-15, 03:44 | Link #95 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Being a talent working up to a star, and being an engineer working up to being a Nobel Prize winner, those things are mutually exclusive because effort is pumped in different areas.
__________________
|
|
2009-05-15, 05:30 | Link #96 | ||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
|
Quote:
So, it's "fair" for record companies and auction houses to charge for their services, and hence their entrenched interest in protecting IP. The initial outlay had to be recouped and the investment had to be protected against those who would seek to copy the IP illegally to sell on their own. IP protection before the Internet was, in this sense, not very different from protecting against counterfeit currency. Quite clearly, though, the Internet has changed everything for the media industry. Artists, theoretically, can now bypass the "greedy" middleman (to be frank, I don't see why corporations are automatically assumed to be evil, money-grubbing entities when most are run by ordinary people just like you and me; any company is only as "good" or "evil" as its staff and management) and reach out to the world directly. We're already beginning to see instances of such Internet celebrities on YouTube. So, yes, maybe IP protection doesn't seem as relevant as it used to be. It seems increasingly possible to push the motion that free proliferation is good, that it encourages much more progressive innovation in a competing marketplace of ideas. Personally, though, I see it as a double-edged sword. Such rampant proliferation can just as easily snuff out the incentive for competitive innovation as it encourages it. If there's no way to guarantee at least a minimum window of opportunity for the content producer to get compensation for his labour, why should he go through the trouble of producing it? In any case, protecting an idea is but half the battle. Any plan, however brilliant, is only as good as its execution. The same could be said of an IP. Quote:
|
||
2009-05-15, 12:13 | Link #97 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
|
Quote:
A reading on what corporations used to be and what they've become in the latter half of the 20th Century makes for interesting readings. There have been good moments based on self-interest AND the interests of the employees, the community, and the customers, but each involved bucking the 'easy way' -- example from 1930 which seems prudent today: http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0508/p09s01-coop.html current example: http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0430/p47s01-lire.html
__________________
|
|
2009-05-15, 16:00 | Link #98 |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
|
Basically whatever Tiny and Vexx have said and all made sense, but in modern context, it has pretty much deviated from the pragmatic reality we are facing from day to day.
Firstly, there is a Chinese saying that goes, "Money cannot buy everything, but you can't do anything without money."* As things continue to change and prices continue to inflate (like how 20,000 pounds in the 1800s is worth a few million pounds now), it eventually became a cause for people to go all out to earn their monies. The dream of being rich seem to be a goal for ultimate happiness and contentment seemingly becomes having an infinite resource of material wealth. That "defines" the "modern pragmatism" in the 21st century, which is probably Karl Marx's prophecy of the "self-destructive effects of capitalism". Secondly, the rapid evolution of technology has made our world shrink at a rate that could be termed geometrically progressive. The internet has become our world and lines thin between "virtual" and "physical" reality due to information being readily available at our senses through intelligent soft/hardware like Google Earth, Youtube and Wikipedia. We may not be able to smell flowers or taste food through the computer, but we are able to draw close comparisons with our imagination using the details provided in the words we read. No longer we need to hop down to the nearest retailer to get our music and games, but rather with iTunes and Direct2Drive, we can virtually get our entertainment needs with a few clicks of the button. Our dance routines have been replaced by DDR, our jamming sessions by hours on DMGF/Rock Band, and maybe the desire for our local armed forces' Ranger Course by CODMW! Thirdly, we have gone so far from gold semiconductors to copper complex alloys in our computer systems, mass-manufactured by countries like China and India. Having a state of art computer in modern days is less than $1000 in local currency, comparing to how a Commodore 64 used to cost over $3000 back in the 1980s has made the points in the two above paragraphs more widely available to the masses, circumventing rights and waiting times. Would people want to go back to the times where they have to wait long days for the next album or concert? I don't think so. To sum it all up, such a law enacted could only slow down progress, and not avoid it entirely. Proliferation comes with progress, therefore it is good to start thinking of new distribution methods, and use technology to reach out to the masses rather than sticking to whale oil lamps by claiming electricity is dangerous. * - It is actually from my local TV in the early years of my country, by manzai styled comedic duo Wang Xia and Ye Feng (or what my parents told me wrt to their names). It could have existed thousand of years ago, I am not sure.
__________________
|
2009-05-15, 16:13 | Link #99 | |
Emotionless White Face
Join Date: Feb 2008
|
Quote:
What some people are pointing is that the progess was also partly speeded up by a lot of people (not all, but a lot of people whatsoever) who have no problem to disregard an important law. As I see it, it means that if it was as easy to steal things in a supermaket, a lot of people would do it. I personally don't think that we should be happy to notice that. I think I know what you think about the "important" laws and rules that rule our society, so just see me as your opposite |
|
2009-05-16, 02:04 | Link #100 | |
Observer/Bookman wannabe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 38
|
Quote:
Also, by PR skills, I don't mean "sucking up". Treating people like dirt is hardly just. Back to the topic, the business model has to change, like Narona and many others have noted. Hopefully, it'll stimulate the economy in ways we haven't thought of yet.
__________________
|
|
|
|