2008-05-05, 19:58 | Link #121 | |
Senior Member
|
Quote:
The ship? I think it wasnt a bomb that destroyed it. I think it was self destruct system. Since, it would take a big bomb to actually destroy a ship that size. Another proof Chiko was lying. When she said the line "You should have thoroughly inspected me." her eyes were not looking at the captain. She was looking the other way. A person who is telling the truth would've said it to his face. Which is why I believe it was a lie. She had to lie because the captain wouldn't believe 20 faces. Since he knows he is a cunning man. |
|
2008-05-05, 20:00 | Link #122 | ||
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 37
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
2008-05-05, 20:12 | Link #123 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
|
Another interpretation that melds both points of view may be that Chiko was carrying bombs, but she didn't know it. (That seems a more plausible strategy than telling the truth to someone so inexperienced and possibly unreliable under pressure.) When accused, Chiko realizes the true situation and invents the lie on the spot to protect her compatriots.
BTW, I don't think the bombs would be all that heavy. I watched Bridge on the River Kwai again the other night, and the British commandos intended to destroy the bridge with plastic explosives. They talked about "plastique" as if it were a relatively new invention then (ca. 1943), but Chiko's story seems to begin about a decade later.
__________________
|
2008-05-05, 20:12 | Link #124 | ||
Senior Member
|
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by nadare; 2008-05-05 at 20:23. |
||
2008-05-05, 20:17 | Link #125 | |
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 37
|
Quote:
She's just tilting her head, like a fox. |
|
2008-05-05, 20:29 | Link #126 | |
Senior Member
|
Quote:
Also another info to add that there wasn't a bomb is that. There was no detonating device. Unless it was a time bomb which is highly unlikely. Unless of course there are other bombs that can explode on their own without the use of a detonating device. Then, another theory that 20 faces purposely asked Chiko since he doesn't have proof that there is a bomb since he doesn't have a detonating device to threaten the captain. |
|
2008-05-05, 20:48 | Link #127 | |
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 37
|
Quote:
They said that it was an explosive (爆藥), not a bomb. Meaning there is no absolute need for a detonating device. |
|
2008-05-05, 21:01 | Link #129 | |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
|
Quote:
All this placed the opening of the show in the early-to-mid 1950's for me.
__________________
|
|
2008-05-05, 21:09 | Link #130 | |
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 37
|
Quote:
1. Big business: Chiko is supposed to be the heir to a major business group (if I've understood it correctly). Almost all of the major groups were split up by the Occupation. 2. China: Here, we see a pre-PRC China. Given that PRC was established in 1949, this makes the series be before that year. 3. Europe: There's no sighs of the Soviets nor the post-war building. 4. U-boats: They were nearly extinct in the 1950's. 5. Captain's word: Japan was never supposed to be able to fight after WW2 (although they got their Self Defense Force later). This means that the captian would obviously have never said that he would have wanted to fight the country that has a man such as Twenty Faces. 6. Cloths: Chiko's aunt's fashion is from the 1920's. Plus, their standard of living certainly shows that Japan was very well off, something that would not have been happening in the 1950's. |
|
2008-05-05, 22:50 | Link #131 |
Yuuki Aoi
Join Date: Jul 2004
|
I don't think the mangaka was very careful about chronology. But I think we are supposed to feel as if it is post-WW2.
The policeman's wish that the tank had been finished before the war ended makes me think readers are supposed to think of WW2. The big airplane makes me think of that period, too. And TV broadcasts were not common at all, even in the US, until the late 1940s. The cars look like anything from the 1930s to the early 1960s to me (in Japanese cars), but not earlier, I don't think. The horrid portrayal of China is ahistorical Japanese fantasy, in my opinion, and shouldn't be taken seriously. But the idea that Japanese troops had been in that area previously suggests a period after WW2. The captain appears to be European, and his wish to fight the nation that produced Nijuu-mensou doesn't necessarily imply any knowledge of Japan's post-war constitution. The comparatively nice lifestyle was probably just fantasy, but I think that although the big business groups were split up after WW2, the Americans let many of the people who ran them carry on, in order to keep Japan's economy going, partly to help in the Korean War. And there were still lots of small submarines in the 1950s: the US apparently had over 200 diesel subs when the war ended, for example (Wikipedia). But all this is beside the point if I am right and the mangaka was not being at all careful about his chronology. I think we are just being given a retro-feeling background. As for the bombs, maybe we are again in "just believable enough" territory. I'm not sure that explosives left in the plane for years would still work -- nor that a plane under development would have been booby-trapped like that -- but I also can't see how the Senchou could have carried enough or gone enough places to booby-trap the plane as widely as it exploded. So I'm not looking for what would really happen so much as what the mangaka wants us to think. I do believe we are supposed to think crafty Nijuumensou planted the explosives in some nigiri, and that Chiko was crafty enough to come up with a clever answer. But why her answer was clever is still not clear to me: because she was lying, or because she was so adult in her way of expressing the captain's mistake? I guess Nijuumensou gave the captain half the gold to get him to cause no more trouble and not call out his men for a fight that could have damaged the sub and done everyone harm, and whose outcome no-one could have been sure of.
__________________
|
2008-05-06, 00:20 | Link #132 | |
Senior Member
|
Quote:
The scene where Chiko was lying(assuming that she was) is powerful because... A child like Chiko who is honest and innocent like ap perfect child. Would lie in such a way. It shows how intelligent and mature she is. Thats why I believe she is definitely lying in that scene. |
|
2008-05-06, 00:22 | Link #133 | ||
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 37
|
Quote:
Quote:
It's obvious that she WAS lying, given that the riceball was eaten that the end |
||
2008-05-06, 00:45 | Link #134 | |
Senior Member
|
Quote:
wait wait.. Which side are you on ? The side where she is lying or not ? I thought we were debating whether she was lying or not :O. Yes. the explosives can explode when thrown against wall. Then that would mean that the only "explosives" available currently there is the onigiri 20 faces was holding. Which would mean that there was no explosives at all and Chiko was lying. |
|
2008-05-06, 01:03 | Link #136 | |
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 37
|
Quote:
You were saying (if I understand it correctly) that how she acted in that smile scene showed that she was lying. However, I don't agree with with that view: We only got to know she was lying after everything was over. |
|
2008-05-06, 11:14 | Link #137 | |
Yuuki Aoi
Join Date: Jul 2004
|
Quote:
As for nadare's comment about them not being able to detonate from there, I thought the explosives were probably just timed.
__________________
|
|
2008-05-08, 03:53 | Link #138 | |
Senior Member
|
Quote:
|
|
2008-05-08, 04:35 | Link #139 |
Somehow I found out
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 40
|
I think the best way to think of Nijuu Mensou's setting is as an alternative history, which better allows us to swallow some of the more fantasy elements in this (giant plane, for example). Ultimately, though, I don't think the setting matters all that much.
Seen up to ep 3. This is quite good. The lead characters are strong and likable and the plot has been well sewn together. Chiko, and the relationships she has with the rest of Twenty Face's crew makes this so interesting, though. I mean, she's almost like a mascot to some of the guys, but she's also a helper and she's also important to Twenty Faces' plans, as proved by this episode. And, obviously, she's like a daughter to Twenty Faces. The father-daughter vibe they have going on is as obvious as day. Twenty Faces is also very interesting. There's more to him than what's on the surface, that's for sure. He's a thief, but we get the indication that he's also something of a pacifist, and that he's not motivated by the profit, but that it's more a means to some sort of ends that's not clear right now. He's a noble thief, which is why the Robin Hood comparison is justified... to a certain extent. This director knows what he's doing. I've never seen a work from him before, other than Futakoi (which was terrible), but this guy seems to have a handle on the important things in storytelling. This has been quite a bit of fun, so far. I'm liking where this is going. Edit: Forgot to mention, but one of the things I really liked about ep 3 was that scene towards the end where the sub captain said "I hope to fight a country with men like you someday". It's an old cliche, but what wasn't cliched was Twenty Faces' response. Rather than the standard smile or thumbs up or reciprocal recognition of a sign of respect between rivals, he seemingly shot back a look of disinterest, bordering on contempt. I like that... it's a more realistic response to that situation given that the dude just tried to kill him and rob him of his treasure. What exactly it means, I'm not sure, but it almost goes some way towards painting Twenty Faces as a character that succeeds because he goes against the flow. Like I said earlier, there's more to this guy than what's there on the surface.
__________________
Last edited by Sorrow-K; 2008-05-08 at 05:16. |
Tags |
bones, maturation, seinen, shounen |
|
|