[Manga] Chapter 400 Discussion

[Khalilnaruske]

I agree Plans A and B are very unlikely. Even if Itachi was testing Sasuke, Amaterasu was a little much. Unless he was trying to put some fire under Sasuke's pants I hope Madara runs down the whole fight next chapter because that would really help.

[Salt]

Originally Posted by Khalilnaruske

I agree Plans A and B are very unlikely. Even if Itachi was testing Sasuke, Amaterasu was a little much. Unless he was trying to put some fire under Sasuke's pants I hope Madara runs down the whole fight next chapter because that would really help.

That the only part of the fight that disagrees with Madara's story, I suppose that's why we are having a run down next chap.
Would love to see Kishimoto's explanation for this.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Khalilnaruske

I agree Plans A and B are very unlikely. Even if Itachi was testing Sasuke, Amaterasu was a little much. Unless he was trying to put some fire under Sasuke's pants I hope Madara runs down the whole fight next chapter because that would really help.

Originally Posted by Salt

That the only part of the fight that disagrees with Madara's story, I suppose that's why we are having a run down next chap.
Would love to see Kishimoto's explanation for this.

Actually, since Sasuke had not previously seen Amaterasu (or Susanoo), maybe Itachi used these techniques to show Sasuke what they were and possibly how to use them. Or, He could have used these lethal techniques to instruct Sasuke in their destructiveness and versatility as MS techniques so that he could develop ways to fight them or use them in the future (much the same as how many Itachi fans have claimed that Itachi used the Tsukuyomi on Kakashi and Sasuke pre-time skip specifically so they could develop a counterplan to use against the technique.)

(I should say that I do not really believe this, but it is a possible reason for the use of such deadly force.)

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Frankly, I still wanna know what made Itachi die so suddenly. Was it seriously heart-failure? Because I can't tell if it's true or if it was something else and people are just joking about it.

[ace_TZ]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

Frankly, I still wanna know what made Itachi die so suddenly. Was it seriously heart-failure? Because I can't tell if it's true or if it was something else and people are just joking about it.

Killing itachi solves two main obstacles for sasuke

1. As long as itachi lived sasuke as an uchiha could not shine brighter than itachi. Now sasuke's fame would skyrocket throughout the ninja world as the one who killed orochimaru, itachi. Though most of them do not know under what circumstances he killed them. Add to that he is the only uchiha in the world (no body knows of madara yet).

2. Sasuke's character was pretty much one dimensional from the beginning that is to kill itachi. He existed only for this purpose till now, but now(after killing itachi) he has plenty of role to play in the main story in most ways he could replace the main character itself.

Though i think kishi rushed in killing such an interesting character. But i think kishi is trying to put the new generation in highlight. But in my opinion he could have found an alternative way as killing interesting character's such as jiraiya, asuma, itachi (so fast) is quite annoying but this is my opinion.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

I get the feeling that if Itachi was honest...Sasuke would've been even stronger.

Sasuke...i was forced to do this...i had no choice! I love you but i have to leave you.
No wait...come with me Sasuke. I'll train you myself. Stay with my clone for the next 10 years..because i have to do some jobs for Akatsuki.

I'll train you personally and we'll get those bastards who are responsible for this!

[mrsticky005]

I get the feeling that if Itachi was honest...Sasuke would've been even stronger.

No offense but that's easier said than done. I mean really, how are you going to explain to a 7 year old (I think Sasuke was 7 at the time. Correct me if I'm wrong) that you wiped out your own clan because you were ordered to? and second of all the mission was top secret.
Madara was only able to tell Sasuke because of Sasuke's experiences. Sasuke would have been too naive that long ago.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

Frankly, I still wanna know what made Itachi die so suddenly. Was it seriously heart-failure? Because I can't tell if it's true or if it was something else and people are just joking about it.

That's a joke but I think that's the subject of this week chapter anyway.
Considering Itachi planned to be killed by Sasuke there he probably made sure it would happen. Sasuke had improved tremendously but he was clearly still not good enough to survive a fight against Itachi's big guns.
I wouldn't be surprised if Itachi had poisoned himself beforehand or something.

[Vindi89]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

I get the feeling that if Itachi was honest...Sasuke would've been even stronger.

No offense but that's easier said than done. I mean really, how are you going to explain to a 7 year old.

Well this is obviously a a fictional universe where kids are expected to mature quickly. How else would you have ninjas who are 11 and up?

[Slave0fLife]

Maybe Susanoo did something to deliver the killer blow. Since Itachi didn't have the EMS, every use of the MS had an impact on his health, and Susanoo being the next-to-perfect technique (I only say "next-to-perfect" because of the Jiraya frog genjutsu) must have a very bad effect. I am basing this on the usual "the greater the technique, the greater the drawback" that we were told during the manga.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Vindi89

Well this is obviously a a fictional universe where kids are expected to mature quickly. How else would you have ninjas who are 11 and up?

Yeah, but if Itachi had been honest, Sasuke would've ended up hating Konoha and would've wanted revenge (likely he'd still hold Itachi responsible for the murder too, Itachi did kill them after all, even if he was only performing his duty). The result probably would've meant Sasuke running away at an earlier age and becoming a rogue ninja similar to Zabuza. When he grew strong enough, he could become a major threat to the village. Then Itachi would have egg on his face, because that's exactly what he was trying to prevent by killing the rest of the clan.

As it is now, Sasuke might be coerced into doing exactly what Itachi was trying to prevent by not telling the truth, because now he's learning that from Madara. That's probably part of the reason Itachi wanted to keep Sasuke away from Madara in the first place.

Originally Posted by Slave0fLife

Maybe Susanoo did something to deliver the killer blow. Since Itachi didn't have the EMS, every use of the MS had an impact on his health, and Susanoo being the next-to-perfect technique (I only say "next-to-perfect" because of the Jiraya frog genjutsu) must have a very bad effect. I am basing this on the usual "the greater the technique, the greater the drawback" that we were told during the manga.

Jiraiya's frog genjutsu is the perfect technique? That jutsu had some weaknesses too. But yeah, Zetsu did say that using Susanoo was a serious risk to the user. The pre-fight injuries, fatigue from using too much chakra and the effects of Susanoo probably all ended up contributing to Itachi's death.

[HiroInazuma]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

That jutsu had some weaknesses too. But yeah, Zetsu did say that using Susanoo was a serious risk to the user. The pre-fight injuries, fatigue from using too much chakra and the effects of Susanoo probably all ended up contributing to Itachi's death.

I thought Itachi might have bled to death as his leg was bleeding from the blade and he was still running from it...but then again fatal wounds or deep wounds mean nothing to people with bijuus or a doujutsu (except the white eyed people because compared to Madara/Itachi/Sasuke/Kakashi/Average Bob with sharingan and Pein they suck)

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Yeah, but if Itachi had been honest, Sasuke would've ended up hating Konoha and would've wanted revenge (likely he'd still hold Itachi responsible for the murder too, Itachi did kill them after all, even if he was only performing his duty). The result probably would've meant Sasuke running away at an earlier age and becoming a rogue ninja similar to Zabuza. When he grew strong enough, he could become a major threat to the village. Then Itachi would have egg on his face, because that's exactly what he was trying to prevent by killing the rest of the clan.

As it is now, Sasuke might be coerced into doing exactly what Itachi was trying to prevent by not telling the truth, because now he's learning that from Madara. That's probably part of the reason Itachi wanted to keep Sasuke away from Madara in the first place.

Good point. Very good point indeed.

Jiraiya's frog genjutsu is the perfect technique? That jutsu had some weaknesses too. But yeah, Zetsu did say that using Susanoo was a serious risk to the user. The pre-fight injuries, fatigue from using too much chakra and the effects of Susanoo probably all ended up contributing to Itachi's death.

Ah, that's right. He was probably pretty exhausted, and when he tried to force Sunano'o, it killed him I guess. I guess it goes back to when Kakashi first warned Sasuke about trying to force a technique (namely a high-level one) when you're low on chakra. That's probably how Itachi died. I bet Susano'o killed him.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Slave0fLife

Maybe Susanoo did something to deliver the killer blow. Since Itachi didn't have the EMS, every use of the MS had an impact on his health, and Susanoo being the next-to-perfect technique (I only say "next-to-perfect" because of the Jiraya frog genjutsu) must have a very bad effect. I am basing this on the usual "the greater the technique, the greater the drawback" that we were told during the manga.

We don't know if using MS jutsu does have any impact on someone's health, or to be more precise it was never stated that the "risk" is on the whole body and not only on the eyes. As long as there's no evidence i think we can assume that the eyesight is risked only. And that is not some random risk, it seems that the eyesight slowly deteriorates if MS jutsu are used. We saw a non-MS-capable and low-chakra Sasuke using an MS jutsu and only his eyes were bleeding, there was no other impact on his health. I think that it's much more probable that Itachi did poison himself than him having internal bleeding from MS use.

It seems pointless to overanalyze the MS because Kishimoto always keeps telling some law/fact about the Uchiha/MS and some chapters after that there are events that contradict all what was stated before. Some examples:
- only Uchiha can obtain MS, only by killing the best friend -> Kakashi obtains MS
- MS has to be obtained in hard way -> Sasuke receives it by a simple touch of Itachi
- MS deteriorates eyesight -> Madara received MS eyes from his brother whose MS didn't deteriorate. Maybe he never used it? But it was stated that they obtained MS and in that chaotic era fought with MS eyes a lot, Madara's brother should be no exception. Why would someone who killed his best friend for MS give it to Madara for free.

[Salt]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

- MS has to be obtained in hard way -> Sasuke receives it by a simple touch of Itachi

Maybe this was what killed Itachi. He was on his last legs, but giving Sasuke the MS might have meant certain death regardless of the condition of his body - in short the transfer of the MS was like a suicide jutsu.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

- MS deteriorates eyesight -> Madara received MS eyes from his brother whose MS didn't deteriorate. Maybe he never used it? But it was stated that they obtained MS and in that chaotic era fought with MS eyes a lot, Madara's brother should be no exception. Why would someone who killed his best friend for MS give it to Madara for free.

Madara was his brother, and he wanted what's best for the clan. If it meant giving up his eyes to his, in his opinion, more capable brother (& forsaking his life) so the clan can survive, so be it.
Either that or Madara lied.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by ace_TZ

Though i think kishi rushed in killing such an interesting character. But i think kishi is trying to put the new generation in highlight. But in my opinion he could have found an alternative way as killing interesting character's such as jiraiya, asuma, itachi (so fast) is quite annoying but this is my opinion.

Actually, Jiraiya's death was one of the better things that happened these last few chapters. Why? Because he's an interesting character. we've seen the canon-fodder die for a long time now (and barring Itachi, who has actually been a major part of the storyline since the beginning, I am counting all of Akatsuki as such) and the heroes had this bubble of invincibillity. Ever since the Sandaime we haven't had a major character death. Yes, yes, there was Asuma, but lets be honest, he wasn't exactly a major character. Everyone always recovered from their serious injuries (Lee, Neji, Chouji, heck Gaara was even revived from the dead) having Jiraiya die send a message that makes us realize that even being a major character does not shield you from death.

[HiroInazuma]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Actually, Jiraiya's death was one of the better things that happened these last few chapters. Why? Because he's an interesting character. we've seen the canon-fodder die for a long time now (and barring Itachi, who has actually been a major part of the storyline since the beginning, I am counting all of Akatsuki as such) and the heroes had this bubble of invincibillity. Ever since the Sandaime we haven't had a major character death. Yes, yes, there was Asuma, but lets be honest, he wasn't exactly a major character. Everyone always recovered from their serious injuries (Lee, Neji, Chouji, heck Gaara was even revived from the dead) having Jiraiya die send a message that makes us realize that even being a major character does not shield you from death.

Except if you are in Team 7.....excluding Sai

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

Frankly, I still wanna know what made Itachi die so suddenly.

For the time being, you can assume that the jutsu he used is similar to a life-transfer jutsu.

[Khalilnaruske]

Originally Posted by Salt

Maybe this was what killed Itachi. He was on his last legs, but giving Sasuke the MS might have meant certain death regardless of the condition of his body - in short the transfer of the MS was like a suicide jutsu.

Originally Posted by Fipskuul

For the time being, you can assume that the jutsu he used is similar to a life-transfer jutsu.

Yeah. Itachi's chakra probably went to zero when he transfered his jutsu. Ahhhh... such selflessness, commit suicide and give your little brother a jutsu that will make his eye bleed. Itachi, you really do care.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Salt

Madara was his brother, and he wanted what's best for the clan. If it meant giving up his eyes to his, in his opinion, more capable brother (& forsaking his life) so the clan can survive, so be it.
Either that or Madara lied.

What i meant is that someone who gives up his eyes maybe didn't obtain MS by killing his best friend but in a different way. So that would be another evidence besides Kakashi's case against the kill-best-friend-for-MS.

There are too many unanswered questions about Itachi, and i think Madara should contiue with the beginning of the story: how did exactly Itachi gain MS, did he really kill his best friend, and if so was it his intention or was it Shishui who wanted to kill him for MS (maybe ordered by the Uchiha clan rebels to obtain MS and thus gain ability to summon the kyuubi, but Itachi obtained the MS and he didn't want to summon the kyuubi).