Character Discussion - Kallen

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Well that's just it. He doesn't have to kill Kallen in order to survive. If backed into a corner and left with no other option, sure.

He doesn't have to kill her, but he has to beat her, and he couldn't do it until he was at the end of his rope.

[bladeofdarkness]

we're NOT arguing about who won
were arguing becouse bonzo said suzaku THREW the fight and lost on purpose
and things kinda been going on since then

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

we're NOT arguing about who won
were arguing becouse bonzo said suzaku THREW the fight and lost on purpose
and things kinda been going on since then

Oh right, so it's not about who won, it's about why she won. Hmm, nah I wouldn't say that Suzaku threw the fight. He certainly was giving it his all and for the life of me I still don't understand how he survived the Lancelot exploding.

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

Well, i don't think Suzaku throw the fight, but i don't think Kallen won either. The Gurren was totally destroyed and she passed away. Without Gino, she would die for sure(argh, i hate to give credit for him). To me, it was a tie, which is quite good for Kallen, since Suzaku is a god.

BUT, i don't think Suzaku was fighting all he could, because he, unlike Kallen, didn't want to kill his rival.

Actually I thought like you before I watched the subbed version.
But In the subbed version, it seems quite clear that Suzaku did everything he could but wasn't able to win against her; I mean, all of his weapons, his KMF, his sweaty face, his loud "I can't win" and his geass which was activated, seems kinda talkative.

And he did everything he could. Seriously, if you really doubt that, you need to watch again the fight, I mean, everything in the convo, and in Suzaku's state, at this very moment point out toward an "I try but I can't" position for Suzaku.
(And I don't think he avoided to kill her at this moment; It was a "it's my cause or yours" fight, meaning, my skin or yours :P

Suzaku's KMF explodes, Kallen's was disabled. Had she die after that, it would have still been a victory for Kallen.
And well it was confirmed by Word of God (Not a surprise, once again. ) I don't see what we need again to admit that yeah, Kallen won.

I never get why did people thought Suzaku was this much stronger that Kallen...When he got the upper hand it was usually because of some technical advantages, with his upgraded Lancelot (and let's not add to that he was meant to have some superpower thanks to geass...), an when Kallen did, it was mostly for the same reasons (Though...In Turn 6...) thus before the very end we never had any full equal fight.

Suzaku you did it right. But Kallen did it better :P *reminds some motivationnal poster...*

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

Suzaku you did it right. But Kallen did it better :P *reminds some motivationnal poster...*

You mean this?

Spoiler for size:

[bladeofdarkness]

she means THIS one that sky made

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Spoiler for well, truth is truth, the mutual kiss is kinda obvious:

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

she means THIS one that sky made

You can just turn any situation around to make it Kalulu can't you?

[bladeofdarkness]

i didnt
she did

[Kid Ying]

Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven

Didn't want to get in the middle of this. However, Suzaku himself stated he couldn't make it decisive even with his "live on" geass effect. Unlike with Bismark, he activated his geass effect right from the get go. He was trying to win the fight as soon as possible. Kallen was trying to defeat him. With the "live on" geass effect, for him to "live on". He had to defeat to Kallen. They both were fighting to win. Suzaku(mentioned her last blow got him) and heck even Gino mentioned she won the fight. So in my eyes Kallen won. Suzaku didn't threw the fight.

Yeah, but we have to remember that the guren is stronger than Albion, even Kallen said so.

i know he was fighting to win, i just don't think he was with the eye of the tiger, unlike Kallen, and that is not a plus, hehe.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i didnt
she did

Yeah yeah. Well, I thought she was referring to a literal motivational poster (hey, I had something going didn't I?) But I guess I'm just not on the same wavelength as you guys

[incorrupts]

Because, i like to back my epic-argument-points {again, who said modesty is a good thing? 8D} it is quite simple, using lines of the charas actually::

Spoiler for because truth is truth, simple. Simpler than slice bread:

I do not know, how after the series strongly indicating it, that Kallen actually did win, there are still doubts about it. You ask me, i think that the fact Kallen won is way more canon, that C.C liking pizza.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

Yeah, but we have to remember that the guren is stronger than Albion, even Kallen said so.

i know he was fighting to win, i just don't think he was with the eye of the tiger, unlike Kallen, and that is not a plus, hehe.

the guren is higher specs then the albion
so high spec that Lloyd believed it wasnt pilotable by anyone
the shen-hu is super high spec that it cant be piloted - it got its ass kicked all over the place

piloting skill is what matters when dealing with machines of THAT level
a machine is only as good as the pilot who uses it
and would only give an edge to a pilot who can push themselves to that level that is required to USE it
and Lloyd did claim that the lancelot albion was his masterpiece - so it couldnt be all that weaker

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Because, i like to back my epic-argument-points {again, who said modesty is a good thing? 8D} it is quite simple, using lines of the charas actually::

Spoiler for because truth is truth, simple. Simpler than slice bread:

I do not know, how after the series strongly indicating it, that Kallen actually did win, there are still doubts about it. You ask me, i think that the fact Kallen won is way more canon, that C.C liking pizza.

LOL, slight exaggeration. Well, like you said, it was a Pyrhhic victory. Kallen beat Suzaku, but at the cost of being out of the remainder of the battle.

Hmm, actually now that I think about it, the two basically neutralized each other. The only difference being that, while the Guren was still intact, the Lancelot was completely destroyed.

Well, awesome pic anyway.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

Yeah, but we have to remember that the guren is stronger than Albion, even Kallen said so.

i know he was fighting to win, i just don't think he was with the eye of the tiger, unlike Kallen, and that is not a plus, hehe.

And? What is that supposed to mean? If you are going with wet pants to a fight, while the "enemy" looks like a raging lioness, it is still your fault that you will ultimately lose. There is no excuse.
It was a fight, the best {on that fight, because overall, i think Suzu+Kallen piloting skills come on a tie} won in the end.
Why do make it difficult people? Girls, can win guys. {surpriseeee} Thank you. 8D

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

LOL, slight exaggeration. Well, like you said, it was a Pyrhhic victory. Kallen beat Suzaku, but at the cost of being out of the remainder of the battle.

Hmm, actually now that I think about it, the two basically neutralized each other. The only difference being that, while the Guren was still intact, the Lancelot was completely destroyed.

Well, awesome pic anyway.

who won
the impalse or the freedom
the freedom or the providence

he who still has his robot intact wins
rule of mecha combat

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

who won
the impalse or the freedom
the freedom or the providence

he who still has his robot intact wins
rule of mecha combat

Sorry, not a huge Gundam fan. But point taken.

[Kid Ying]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

LOL, slight exaggeration. Well, like you said, it was a Pyrhhic victory. Kallen beat Suzaku, but at the cost of being out of the remainder of the battle.

Hmm, actually now that I think about it, the two basically neutralized each other. The only difference being that, while the Guren was still intact, the Lancelot was completely destroyed.

Well, awesome pic anyway.

Well, almost intact. He was pretty damaged and totally out of the battle. He just didn't blow up.

[SonOfHeaven]

Suzaku himself stated he was trying to make an decisive blow but couldn't because of the strength Kallen. He was trying to win the fight at the end of the day.

There's no evidence during turn 25. That showed Suzaku wasn't trying his best against Kallen. Whereas everything showed that he was trying his best against Kallen. I'll go with what they showed and believe Suzaku was trying his best. Instead of gasping at straws about it.

[incorrupts]

Think of the whole fight, as a football game, where the result in the regular 90 mins, is 3-3. Then, go to extra time, where both teams score and it is 4-4 and then, in the last round, penalty shootout. Both teams are "dead"-tiring, but one HAS to win. Kallen's team won. It was an interesting match. 8D

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

Well, almost intact. He was pretty damaged and totally out of the battle. He just didn't blow up.

Hmm, no I distinctly remember the Lancelot blowing up. Unless that was a fake explosion.