2007-02-15, 22:58 | Link #61 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Toronto, ON
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I do not hate Naruto, but Kishimoto has yet to shown that Naruto has truly become a formidable opponent for Kakashi. This is just another plot device to make Naruto's growth seemingly vast. In essence, this is a variable repeat of when he first learned the Rasengan. He has only learned an amazing jutsu, yet he did not improve much on any other aspects of his skills. Whereas Saskue seems to have gained a wealth of new skills, Naruto continues to rely on his shadow clones usage + a high power jutsu. I would like to see more versatility in Naruto's abilities. |
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2007-02-15, 23:18 | Link #62 | ||
The Ironman
Join Date: Sep 2006
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offtopic: I just saw an American Naruto toy commerical for the first time. It featured some kid dressed as Sasuke fighting a guy dressed a Zabuza. "Zabuza" was swinging an authentic plastic zanbato while "Sasuke" threw a plastic shuriken which defeated Zabuza. After which Sasuke exclaimed "Victory is mine!". Classic stuff. I laughed for about 5min straight. I found myself wanting to go out and buy the set though |
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2007-02-16, 04:13 | Link #63 | |
magoi, magoi!
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Naruto has gained a unique jutsu, but it's an evolutionary jutsu rather than a revolutionary jutsu. While it's immensely powerful, they whole execution of it was rather tame. In the manga, Naruto has mainly won his victories from a disadvantaged position, as an underdog. In the past Naruto would use his last ounce of energy to save those who mattered. This time round however, he's defeated an opponent while not necessarily "dumbed down" but most definately weaker than he originally was. Add the fact that Naruto had four people to back him up in case something bad happened, it made for a somewhat one-sided encounter and climax to a what was an interesting battle. For sure it does highlight Naruto's growth, but his battle tactics have become even more one-dimensional than that prior to the time-skip: Kage-bunshin + Rasengan = Defeated Enemy. This is Kishimoto's fault. Maybe he is getting bored of "Naruto" and wants to write "Sasuke", if he does it would be a disappointing end to what has been a very good manga. |
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2007-02-16, 04:16 | Link #64 | |
無罪
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: もう東京ではない
Age: 43
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In other news, I agree wholeheartedly with ShirukenJay. I can accept two Akatsuki members dying, and I can accept that Shikamaru and Naruto doing them in, but I've got a hard time accepting that they couldn't put up a good fight. They weren't in Sasori's league at all in that department. And I think it's bizarre that we haven't had Hidan's ability explained to us, are we just supposed to accept it as is? That's about the only thing that makes me cling to the hope of seeing Hidan again. |
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2007-02-16, 04:56 | Link #65 |
Desu
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Everett, WA
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All I know is the series is going to get A LOT more interesting from here on out. So many things have yet to be revealed and Sasuke and Naruto will only get stronger and more fun to see advance.
I really don't care if Naruto advances slower because I know in the end he's going to do something spectacular, a WTF moment almost. In the Valley of the End arc I had that WTF moment where Naruto went into nine tails mode and then Sasuke went into Curse mode lvl 2 or w/e it was. Twas awesome. So I know that there will be more moments where we get to see OMGWTFBBQ moments of unleashing of awesome power. I dunno about everyone else, but I cant think to myself that I'm disappointed with each new chapter...because I cant be...I don't know whats going to happen next which makes me glad about the chapter when it comes out. I enjoy reading the Manga and thats about all there is too it. |
2007-02-16, 05:15 | Link #66 |
Senior Member
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Ooooo Sasuke is back and he looks nice too.
And yes, his appearance is pretty much the only thing at this time that can make me read a chapter of Naruto. Sad? Yes. Shallow? For sure. Understandable? Definately. Simply put, that's just one of Sasuke's many powers. ;P |
2007-02-16, 07:36 | Link #67 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2007
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i'm interested with the fact that kishi refuse to turn sasuke into a really bad/evil character. Sasuke didnt kill any one of the defeated shinobi just proved it! i think this is a strong hint to us that sasuke will comeback to konoha someday!
As for the chapter, does everyone satisfy with the king revelation? i dont think so!! after being hype up about the king, *theres many thread about it in many forums in the net*, that the answer we gat? kishi must be kidding!! About the pregnancy of kurenai, many fans have foreseen it , so its no suprise!! so, in conclusion, this chapter is a bit frustrating!! |
2007-02-16, 08:22 | Link #68 |
Med Student
Join Date: Jul 2006
Age: 40
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personally, i dont understand how people can spend hours arguing over power levels... but the the fighting has never appealed to me much, its the characters that i love, and i loved this issue. Finally some resolution and character development. Kurenai is pregnant, how tragic and beautiful at the same time. I just hope the manga is ending soon... i hope this will be the last arc coming up. Everything seems so final. seriously tho... 2 years just to kill off 3 akatski?? wtf??
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2007-02-16, 08:30 | Link #69 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Age: 41
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All of the people who think that he acted retarded seem to miss something. When someone is being totally overpowered, he doesn't look good, cunning or strong. He simply loses. That's how it works in real life and that probably is how it works in this manga. I for one are happy to see naruto finish up with an enemy without looking like a mormon...err..moron. Sorry =( He finally got this feeling you got with sasuke pretty much from the beginning: he's strong. |
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2007-02-16, 09:30 | Link #70 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
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@Note about Naruto defeating Kakazu
I'm pretty sure this is the first time Kakazu fought a "Naruto-type" character + abilities. So, even with his vast experience if he haven't fought someone with such similar abilities then it would kinda useless in some levels. On Topic: Sasuke arc? Interesting to see there's some "light" in Sasuke's being. |
2007-02-16, 10:11 | Link #71 | |
Conspiracy Theorist
Join Date: Dec 2005
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People don't seem to understand that this wasn't a 1 on 1 fight; but a 1 on many fight. Kakuzu specialises in wide destruction jutsus and he is fighting someone who can do the same, if not more than him. However, Kakuzu doesn't have any one else on his side to worry about. Logic would dictate to attack the other people who he, I and everyone else on this forum knows can't defend against his attacks either forcing Naruto to watch them die (which we all know he won't since he already saved them with Yamato), or to let the real Naruto jumped into the open to save them which sooner or later will give Kakuzu the opening he needs to win the fight. Yes, Kakuzu doesn't have an endless supply of chakra; but he didn't have to. Even ignoring this, there was absolutely no reason for Kakuzu to leave himself totally defenseless knowing that there are ninjas out there in the vicinity who already destroyed his hearts and can easily finish the job if given the chance. Naruto's strength is not in question here, nor his tactics and skills. It is simply the way how Kishimoto dumbed a ninja like Kakuzu who should had known waaaaaaaaay better. Have everyone noticed though that out of the akatsuki members that died so far, we haven't seen their ultimate jutsus? Sasori let himself be killed before revealling his 2 most powerful jutsus. Hidan, well speak for himself; and Kakuzu still had his real heart and own jutsus that he didn't use (he was using the hearts/jutsus of others). Would this trend be continued?
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2007-02-16, 10:52 | Link #72 |
Hokage
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: USA, NewJersey
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Hahahaha Kurenai really is pregnant... Cant wait to see Naruto's new completed jutsu and Naruto vs Sasuke. Now that we seen people from Konoha kill so many Akatsuki members, maybe next we ll see Orochimaru's team kill a Akatsuki member either Orochimaru or Sasuke. Thats why Kishi showed the last part of Sasuke training, maybe.
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2007-02-16, 11:07 | Link #73 | ||
The Ironman
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Attacking the others would'nt be a prudent tactic for Kakuzu considering that this would cause him to take his attention off Naruto leaving himself open for attack. You could say otherwise about Ino and Chouji, but Yamato and Kakashi aren't rookies and aren't innocent bystanders that Kakuzu could exploit as hostages. Attacking them and bringing them into the fight would've just created unecessary trouble for Kakuzu. Kakuzu wasn't retarded, he was fighting defensively. He learned from his first mistake and adjusted, however Naruto had already accounted for this. His main flaw was that he tried to fight Naruto head on with power rather than using deception and cunning. In situation like that, a ninja like Oro or Itachi would've used bunshin of their own or at least have been prepared to use a kawarmi. Given the situation, they might've simply retreated. It seems like more of a matter of pride that got him killed not necessarily dumbness, though it is still a less than satisfactory defeat I'll also give kudos to Naruto for using a minimal amount of clones. Naruto could've easily created dozens or even hundreds of clones and rushed at Kakuzu. However, in seeing this Kakuzu might've been overwhelmed and changed his tactics or decided to retreat. By using only 3 clones at a time, Naruto kept Kakuzu thinking that he was still in control of the fight. Quote:
Last edited by Sabaku Kyu; 2007-02-16 at 11:25. |
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2007-02-16, 11:27 | Link #75 |
KING RANSOM
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Location Location!
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The only interesting things this chapter was that Asuma has a son. And that Sasuke isn't really following Orochimaru's intentions. I personally don't think Kishimoto did a very good job in showing how nartuo go 'stronger' than kakashi. Specially since Sakura vs Sasori was a much more impressive battle.
The Sasuke angle was an interesting reminder that Sasuke's still too selfish to submit to anyone (that includes naruto, oro, and itachi). This kinda reminds me back to when sasuke was still cool. He had the curse seal and surpressed it with his own will power just so he could fight how HE wanted to. That was cool. Maybe this new sasuke will do something cool like completly defying oro's possesion jutsus or something, cuz all of his exploits after he learned chidori sucked. The battles might have been cool, but sasuke was not an impressive character.
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2007-02-16, 12:41 | Link #76 | |||||||
Μ ε r c ü r υ
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Didn't the highly skilled Jiraiya, who might have deserved a place among s-ranks if he were to be an outlaw, fall for one of the simplest tricks, the seduction trick? For the Itachi vs Kakashi case, mainly because Itachi was not skilled enough to use a very powerful move at light-speed, does not mean Naruto had to act the same... Or mainly because Itachi preferred to not use a good jutsu at high speed (in order to ???) does not mean Naruto should have acted the same way. Itachi combined his signature move, sharingan, with his speed to overpower his opponents, and Naruto used his signature move, kage bunshin (and related techniques), with his speed to overpower his opponents. The only difference here is one is Itachi, the person *you expect to succeed*, and the other is Naruto, the person *you expect to fail*. If you can get rid of your superstition, you might be able to re-evalutate that attack. And I truly believe that you should really get over this. Quote:
You can use the following as supporting points: Naruto has at least double the chakra (plus Kyuubi chakra), he can gain speed beyond Kakashi's with a little help from Kyuubi, he has an incredibly powerful incomplete move, that is beyond what Kakashi's Raikiri can do, and he has enough strength to use a move that Sharingan can do nothing about. And, if you wait from Naruto a chess/shogi game, good luck, it will never happen. You can barely handle a not very intelligent character winning with pure strength, you cannot handle an intelligent character that has enough chakra capacity to take on all the powerful ninjas in the world alone, and can still win. Quote:
Let me first remind you that Itachi was probably as strong as Oro when he was Sasuke's current age. And, Oro, who put his faith in Sasuke, as the man who can surpass Itachi, wouldn't mind training Sasuke with the hopes of helping him reaching Sasuke's level before the time expires. And, as you might know that, Sasuke didn't initially go to Oro, just so he can spend highly pleasurable nights with Oro. He wanted to become stronger, strong enough to beat Itachi alone, on his own power. Even though, he realized he cannot do alone, do you really think he would stop training? Let's look at from both Sasuke's point of view, and Oro's point of view. First, Sasuke is most probably thinking like this: "I will try to close the gap as much as possible, and in the case that I cannot close that gap (which is highly probable), I will not mind giving my body to Oro." Now for Oro, to successfully do his body exchange, he needs complete surrenderence from his future host. Do you really think, Sasuke will surrender without reaching as far as he can go? Most probably, you haven't really understood Sasuke's character. Secondly, for Oro, do you think that he would have desired something more than preparing his future host to satisfy his demands completely - meaning training it to the level that he can get a complete body when he transfers? Also, I haven't included Akatsuki, but, it is even possible that Oro didn't want to waste a single second in preparing Sasuke for future battles, as even though they may not be the one to initiate those battles, they may be the one facing unwillingfully against those opponents. And, in that case, it is always better to be ready. Quote:
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I think the last thing he would want other than getting killed there, is to kill Naruto and then getting tortured and killed by the Akatsuki Leader. And, any kind of wide destruction had some possibility of irreversibly eliminating Naruto with the others there. Last edited by Sazelyt; 2007-02-16 at 13:01. Reason: More comments... |
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2007-02-16, 12:47 | Link #77 |
back in black
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Turkey
Age: 41
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and on the very high end orochimaru will waste a lot of time to train that body...even if oro s senses are perfect he can predict attacks and so if the body cant react in time it would be deadly for him...think about 30 year old soul ind 3 year old baby s body...even if you know how to run that body wont allow you...simple as that.
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2007-02-16, 13:07 | Link #78 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In Florida
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I don't know I actually thought this showed alot of smarts on naruto's part. He made his clones use the tech. to get Kakuza to believe that the clone was naruto since the clone had that whirl wind shuriken thing. He then went for the obvious target. This was Kakuza's mistake. He either did not believe Naruto could have done the technique a third time or thought only a fool would risk his own body by disguising it as a clone. Kakuza did not become retarded. He just underestimated Naruto, since at this point he believed that Naruto was reckless. I think this actually shows that Naruto has grown, which I thought was good. Sure I thought the fight was a bit short, but then one would expect Naruto to be able to defeat a person faster then Sakura. The technique is only half way completed so it'll be interesting to see what the completed version is.
I think the best scenes though were with Shikamaru. We now know who the king is and I'm not surprised I though Kish. made it obvious from the beginning. It's cool to see that Sasuke isn't totally controlled by Oro. So I guess the only Akat. left are Itachi, Akat. Leader, Tobi, Kisame, the chick with the clay, the venus fly trap dude, and the person with the flower in hair. Then there is still Oro. |
2007-02-16, 13:19 | Link #79 | |
無罪
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: もう東京ではない
Age: 43
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But I don't really see the point about an emotional fight, why can't we expect more out of Kishimoto even though we might not delve into the sad backgrounds of various characters? The way Naruto fooled Kakuzu was simply too unimaginable, I can't believe that's supposed to be a plot twist worthy of chapter number 342. I don't really understand your point about Deidara's win either. Gaara didn't lose because he was stupid but because Deidara was smart. The same can't be said for Kakuzu unfortunately. I guess we all value different fights differently, but for me these two coppout fights were something of a lowpoint in the series so far... |
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