Code Geass Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Timeless Enigma]

I'd like to add that I really enjoyed the first fair battle between Kallen Stadtfeld and Suzaku Kururugi. Their first encounter can't even be called a match. I enjoyed the the conclusion as well.

Both Lancelot and Guren Nishiki have agility to spare, but it seems that Suzaku is more apt to high-flying acrobatics and he makes use of a variety of weapons. Kallen on the other hand was kind of a one trick pony, but what's limiting her is her weaponry. She had surprise on her side this time as she continued to destroy parts and weapons. She's also familiar with the opponent but Suzaku has no idea who or what the hell he's fighting.

I'm sure their next match will have Guren Nishiki's exhibit some more variety. I think Zero realizes that only a big claw isn't going to cut it (yes I know there's a machine gun somewhere there but Kallen's never felt the need to use it). Kallen's also going to have to work on her situational awareness and use her environment to fight or she'll find herself at the edge of an unstable cliff once again.

That's just my novice opinion

Oh yeah, and I hope there will be some Kallen development with Lelouch. I don't think this pairing can go anywhere unless a crossover is made from Kallen x Zero to Kallen x Lelouch. I think you know what I mean by that. Right now Kallen's simply a chess piece to Zero.

[quina]

THIS EPISODE ROCKS!! Although I have pretty much spoiled myself with all the newtype spoiler and crap, regardless this episode totally kick asssss!

There are some points I want to make:

Below are super spoiler to this episode... Read on if you already watched this.

Kalen’s pilot skill Lv:

The fight between Kalen and Susaku is beyond awesome! Although Susaku has a slight edge over Kalen in that fight, Kalen has proven herself to be a fine pilot by defeating Cornalia.

Recall back in episode 2, it was Orange vs. Kalen. At that time Orange completely kicks Kalen’s butt. However she gets him in the last episode using Guren. WHich means the fight is largely dominated by Guren’s ability and sadly not Kalen.

Recall that Cornalia’s Knightmare is also 5th generation knightmare (same generatoin with the one that Orange uses with some mod) which means out of Guren, Kalen is no match for Cornalia as well.

Susaku is on par with Kalen, however he is using 6th generation Knightmare! thus although he is fighting godly in lancelot, its not totally his ability, infact it is mostly of lancelot.

Thus the pilot’s ability ranking is:
Cornalia > Orange > Susaku >= Kalen

(Kalen's fan wouldn't be happy about my analysis I guess..)
6th generation knightmare and gulen ignore those pilots lv of ability. it would be VERY terrifying if Britania starts to mass produce it. There are some crap about 6th generation+ chooses its own pilot… ignore those. Also my analysis ignore pilots' growth.

CC’s real name:
I probably makes some post later on guessing CC’s name by reading Lulu’s mouth with screen cap and everything like always...

CC’s memory:
She said she has lost her memory. Weirdly she is able to remember her name! She is also afraid of Lulu to see her past for some reason, if she forgot she would have no idea what Lulu would be seeing! … this doesn’t add up.. she is still hiding something.

CC’s moment with Lulu
In one word or less: AWESOME!
I am all CC x Lulu now. They both makes really good pair. Lulu is so stubborn, even when he is saying thank you lol. (She is stubborn too, damit they are so cute)

The producer mentioned there will be an emotionl moment between CC and Lulu when he call her by her real name. I think that was the moment.
They also mentioned some Shirley development on Lulu coming up SOON too! This could prove being a challege for my CCxLulu!

[SoldierOfDarkness]

True Quina,

Though the thing to point out is that on the battlefield, "surprise" can turn the tide in a second. No one knew the capabilities of the Guren and I'm positive Orange-kun would've fared better if he knew it's power. Immediately he realized that the right arm was a threat and was a big no no, what he didn't know was that the arm could extend itself.

Cornelia on the other hand you can't analyze the fight because she also doesn't know its capabilities. That and it was a 2 second fight and then next thing Zero shows up so she's already dead meat. Suzuka did pretty decently as well since he didn't know the Guren's power but the next fight he'll probably fare better...assuming he gets out of that mindrape BTW, does that mean both Lelouch and Suzuka know their true identies on the battlefield? I mean they saw each other in that plane.

In regards to Suzuka, his piloting abilities were top of the class and as we saw in the first episode he excels in acrobatic combats which he displays with Lancelot. So I would say lancelot is nothing more than an extension of his true potential much like Karen. I don't think you did any favours by ranking them

But man, Guren is almost invincible at hand-to-hand combat and is very difficult to hit. In a prolonged fight Guren would probably win unless the Lancelot can chop off the arm or something.

[quina]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

True Quina,

Though the thing to point out is that on the battlefield, "surprise" can turn the tide in a second. No one knew the capabilities of the Guren and I'm positive Orange-kun would've fared better if he knew it's power. Immediately he realized that the right arm was a threat and was a big no no, what he didn't know was that the arm could extend itself.

Cornelia on the other hand you can't analyze the fight because she also doesn't know its capabilities. That and it was a 2 second fight and then next thing Zero shows up so she's already dead meat. Suzuka did pretty decently as well since he didn't know the Guren's power but the next fight he'll probably fare better...assuming he gets out of that mindrape BTW, does that mean both Lelouch and Suzuka know their true identies on the battlefield? I mean they saw each other in that plane.

In regards to Suzuka, his piloting abilities were top of the class and as we saw in the first episode he excels in acrobatic combats which he displays with Lancelot. So I would say lancelot is nothing more than an extension of his true potential much like Karen. I don't think you did any favours by ranking them

But man, Guren is almost invincible at hand-to-hand combat and is very difficult to hit. In a prolonged fight Guren would probably win unless the Lancelot can chop off the arm or something.

There is a moment there where Lulu met Susaku in CC's mind. I don't think Lulu 'know' yet, that Susaku is the one piloting Lancelot. To him, it might be just another random image.

Lancelot vs Guren in this episode already proves that Guren do not have high ability to fight Lancelot in prolong battle. Guren's claw is trashed by a shot of lancelot gun and MVS. Recall that lancelot has 2 MVS, Guren might finds itself on a losing edge if the fight drags on. That's why Lulouche order them to retreate.

If Kalen + Guren wants to win, they probably need more weapon... may be another mvs knife instead of a normal one lol.

[ThoHell]

Like I just watched that episode fully, all I got to say is "WOW"! Great episode.

Since that dreaded rumor of Susaku getting the Geass was proved false, I bet it eased the mind of a lot of people.

I think Kalen is good, but not as good as Susaku. Sure she was pushing him back in that fight, but he had no idea of what the enemy had, and was just getting suprised over and over again. Kalen went at him with her all nd screaming at the top of her lung while Susaku fought calmy and was shocked a few times from the abilities of Kalen's nightmare. Susaku nightmare resembles a white night, a machine made to fight to it's fullest without hidden weapon's or dishonorably. Now that he is fully aware of the abilities of Kalen's nightmare, I don't think it will so much of a equal playing field next time they fight (which will probably be one of the best anime fight scenes ever). Not trying to degrade Kalen or anything, not saying she's bad at all, just saying Susaku is better.



Is this an upgrade Lancelot or to it's fullest? It's just a mecha picture I found while looking up Code Geass. It's for sure different, and looks awesome.

[Renegade334]

The fight between Kalen and Susaku is beyond awesome! Although Susaku has a slight edge over Kalen in that fight, Kalen has proven herself to be a fine pilot by defeating Cornalia.
(...)
Susaku is on par with Kalen, however he is using 6th generation Knightmare! thus although he is fighting godly in lancelot, its not totally his ability, infact it is mostly of lancelot.

Thus the pilot’s ability ranking is:
Cornalia > Orange > Susaku >= Kalen

Actually, the Lancelot is seventh generation and the Crimson Lotus Mk II, although it follows a different line of thought technologically speaking, is also considered to be seventh generation level. So yeah, both of them overpower Sutherlands and Gloucesters as they are equipped with the latest tech available. However, I beg to differ about the skill ranking - having a superior mech doesn't make you instantly overpowered and untouchable. If you have an inferior mech and don't possess armament equal to your opponent's, the fight will either be one-sided or unfair.

The Lancelot is a mech that is officially said to 'choose its own pilots' as only aces can harness its power and use its high-performances to their full extent. Can't the same be said about the Crimson Lotus? What good are exceptional piloting and combat skills if you don't have the means to use them? It doesn't mean Kallen is necessarily weaker than such or such person but judging someone's worth solely on the number of losses and wins just doesn't suffice - you have to look at the circumstances and whatnot. For now, there have been close to no fight where people battle each other with identical mechs and equipment. So it's not surprising one of the two (or more) bites the dust because his own mech can't keep up with the opponent's.

She said she has lost her memory. Weirdly she is able to remember her name! She is also afraid of Lulu to see her past for some reason, if she forgot she would have no idea what Lulu would be seeing! … this doesn’t add up.. she is still hiding something.

And you think that someone prodding your mind against your will is something acceptable?

Oh, come on - you saw the scene, didn't you? She doesn't have a past people would be proud to have - she saw her church being vandalized, her country torn to shreds by war, her people slaughtered, her body scarred by that strange sigil (like a brand or indeed, a stigma). Who in the right mind would broadcast that for all to see?

Infiltrating someone's mind is very much like violating the said person - you bypass all of his defenses and feast upon his secrets and possibly worst memories. Everyone has something to hide or at least keep to himself. And if Lelouch's action brought back unhappy memories to the fore, then there is certainly a good reason to tell him to stop and not let her reminisce things she possibly doesn't want to remember.

Besides, you saw what it did to Suzaku - it's clear she knows what her powers do. And she doesn't want them to backfire on her because Lelouch blundered. It's unneeded and there is nothing to enjoy in a return wave of pain. She's not masochistic.

That. Is. A. Fuck. Up.

Newtype released a while ago several scans with quite a number of wrong colors - like Shirley with black hair, Lelouch with white hair, C.C. with hot pink hair instead of green, etc. This is just another pic in the list, and it was released around ep1 or 2 - it's not one of the latest spoilerish pics lying around. It's an early scan with a glaring mistake.

OLD news. Very old.

[ThoHell]

Oh dang there goes me hoping...LOL

But it doesn't look too bad white does it?

The whole pilote skill is what makes the nightmare good, is for sure true. Technology gives you an edge but skills is what require to win. Isn't Suzaku able to bring out something like 94-98% of Lancelot's full potential?

[quina]

Ofcourse, noone said that get super mech = instant win.

I was trying to isolate technology of 7th generation completely out of the picture. The skill ranking is just a suggestion of what would happen if they were all on same stupid Sutherlands or Glasscrow.

Susaku and Kalen indeed are good pilot, but are they as skillful and experinced as Orange and Cornalia who were in countless wars and battle before? I doubt they do.

never the less, we wouldn't be able to know if any of the ranking is right; Susaku WILL NOT get off his lancelot until the end of serie, and there will be no 2nd lancelot most likely.. Thus there are no way for all the pilot to measure the skills on par.

And since there are no direct way to make them fights, my measurement is just like this.

Ep2: Orange vs Kalen: They both has sucky non 7th gen knightmare, Orange completely won. Thus Orange > Kalen.
Ep11: Susaku vs Kalen: They both uses equivilent 7th gen knightmare, Susaku is 'slightly' better, thus Susaku >= Kalen.
Conalia looks more kick ass than Orange, so I rank her higher. Ofcourse I might be wrong.

Thus my ranking ending being:
Conalia > Orange > Susaku >= Kalen.

The ranking itself doesn't mean anything, just my personal speculation. And if that speculation is TRUE, then Cornalia or Orange can even becomes MORE powerful than Susaku and Kalen if they get their own 7th gen.

However as you can see, the real fight is more than skills, Zero is the prove of that. Tactics, lucks, envoroments, etc everything contribute in victory or defeat.

And yes, that is an earlier design of lancelot. Shirley's hair is still purple on the scan next page as well lol.

[SinsI]

Originally Posted by quina

Ep2: Orange vs Kalen: They both has sucky non 7th gen knightmare, Orange completely won. Thus Orange > Kalen.

Wrong. Kalen = Glasgow, 4th gen, Orange - Sutherland, 5th gen. No comparison.

Cornelia looks more kick ass than Orange, so I rank her higher. Ofcourse I might be wrong.

Orange - ordinary 5th gen, Cornelia - enchanced 5th gen. Again, no comparison.

BTW, I wonder what were those swords of Burai Kai. MVS?

[Renegade334]

Originally Posted by SinsI

Wrong. Kalen = Glasgow, 4th gen, Orange - Sutherland, 5th gen. No comparison.

Orange - ordinary 5th gen, Cornelia - enchanced 5th gen. Again, no comparison.

BTW, I wonder what were those swords of Burai Kai. MVS?

Oversized chainsaws, possibly equipped with a tuned-down version of CL Mk II's Radiant Surge (the short-burst, high oscillation weapon) system powering the blades, since they seem to be set aglow with some inner energy. MVS seems to be a Britannia-exclusive weapon, barely out of the drawing boards.

Nevertheless, we should expect more for the JLF and BK

Spoiler:

once Laksharta joins the crew as technical advisor/mech specialist. Knowing that she (possibly) had an affair with Lloyd, there might be a competition between the two, to see who produces the most effective weapons.

[c^2]

As SinsI points out, Orange-kun's machine was far superior to Karen's. The mere fact that she fought with him and managed to escape is rather impressive.

While Suzaku can synchronize well with his machine, that isn't necessarily a matter of skill. All the pwnage can thus be attributed to Lancelot itself. Suzaku is merely a tool.

Even now that Suzaku knows about the Guren MkII's weapons, it is questionable wether he will be able to win next time. He couldn't hit her at all with his ranged weapons, and up close, had his weapons destroyed one by one. If she had something other than the claw to block with, I'm sure the battle would have been even more favorable for her.

Karen seems to have razor sharp reflexes which seem almost inhuman, and I don't think this fact can be dismissed. Suzaku was quite shocked by his opponent's speed and agility.



Lloyd vexes me, and I wonder where his loyalties lie. The way he dismissed the landslide in the previous episode is very curious. He said something like "There's no way it could be intentional, they would have to have an electromagnetic wave weapon to do that." Why, what a fine guess!

[evil|plushie]

Hmm, after watching the episode, I wonder if Lelouch could do the same thing CC did to Lancelot. Or is that a power of geass he doesnt have?

And C.C pwns this entire episode hands down. Most awesome char. in it.

[c^2]

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

Hmm, after watching the episode, I wonder if Lelouch could do the same thing CC did to Lancelot. Or is that a power of geass he doesnt have?

I think it is something completely different. When she did it, she said something about the value of trying it, so I think that not even she was sure of the outcome.

And C.C pwns this entire episode hands down. Most awesome char. in it.

Agreed. Though, a couple things about her make me wonder.

1. Given her regenerative abilities, why does she still have that scar? Could it be that it isn't a scar, but rather a wound which will never heal? That is a rather unpleasant thought, but given the persecution of her kind, and the continued experimentation, it seems possible that someone discover a way to do that.

2. Why is her hair green? In all the flashbacks, not one other of her kind had green hair.

[-KarumA-]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

well it looked like a bullet hole from that screen cap but yours is much clearer godammit fill in the full pic! >.<
and also ~

Spoiler:

thats one nasty scarr C.C. has there wouldnt be surprised if that came about due to the fact that C.C. was used for experimenting on ~

it wasnt a bullet, Suzuka started to freak out like hell and causedrocks to fly around from his movemnets and shooting, CC protects Lelouch from th rocks, later on larger pieces of debris hit her as well, not only the small rock that hit her int he chest

[Seska]

Originally Posted by c^2

1. Given her regenerative abilities, why does she still have that scar? Could it be that it isn't a scar, but rather a wound which will never heal? That is a rather unpleasant thought, but given the persecution of her kind, and the continued experimentation, it seems possible that someone discover a way to do that.

I knew it, shes Wolferine (X-man Claws user) Sister

Mfg,
Seska

[Majek]

Originally Posted by c^2

As SinsI points out, Orange-kun's machine was far superior to Karen's. The mere fact that she fought with him and managed to escape is rather impressive.

While Suzaku can synchronize well with his machine, that isn't necessarily a matter of skill. All the pwnage can thus be attributed to Lancelot itself. Suzaku is merely a tool.

Even now that Suzaku knows about the Guren MkII's weapons, it is questionable wether he will be able to win next time. He couldn't hit her at all with his ranged weapons, and up close, had his weapons destroyed one by one. If she had something other than the claw to block with, I'm sure the battle would have been even more favorable for her.

Karen seems to have razor sharp reflexes which seem almost inhuman, and I don't think this fact can be dismissed. Suzaku was quite shocked by his opponent's speed and agility.
!

LOL on one hand you atribute everything Suzaku does to Lancelot but when it comes to Kallen it's all about her awesome skills? Awesome. The fact that he fought a suit with completely unknown specs had nothing to do with him being shocked, no it's all about Karen's awesome skills she developed over the night

Why wouldn't he be able to win? He just hgas to use to swords or fire repetitive shots, if Kallen can reload her weapon instantly (unlike the firs time it was used) than his rifles can first fast too. Or he useses 2 sword , and sacrifices one by stabbing it into her claw the use the other one to attack the frame. No chance of winning no sire.

and now the response after reading your post with sarcasm detector on:

So Orange gets Geass now and a super suit so he'll smahs them all to pieces. Then Karen and Suzaku will get a 2 person KF that will destroy Orange and everything else and Lelouch will become the king of nothing.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by Majek

LOL on one hand you atribute everything Suzaku does to Lancelot but when it comes to Kallen it's all about her awesome skills? Awesome. The fact that he fought a suit with completely unknown specs had nothing to do with him being shocked, no it's all about Karen's awesome skills she developed over the night

Why wouldn't he be able to win? He just hgas to use to swords or fire repetitive shots, if Kallen can reload her weapon instantly (unlike the firs time it was used) than his rifles can first fast too. Or he useses 2 sword , and sacrifices one by stabbing it into her claw the use the other one to attack the frame. No chance of winning no sire.

I hope this isn't going to degenerate into one of those 'Destiny vs Strike Freedom' threads eventually...

I'd say Suzaku fought fairly well. A testimony to his "unparalleled" skills, perhaps. Sarcasm aside, he did get a sword destroyed, and the fight was never really resolved because of how the Guren fell.

I don't care too much about that. It's just one of those silly comparisons that come from an unfinished fight. I was more interested on how Lelouch saw what looks to be memories of C.C. We do know now that C.C isn't really a name (duh) . A few parts almost reminded me of certain witch hunts that happened several hundred years back in Europe.

As a LuluxC.C supporter, I guess the last part of the episode ought to give me lots of hope...as well as a little interesting bit from Kallen/Karen to suggest something more that she feels about Zero.

[Majek]

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

I hope this isn't going to degenerate into one of those 'Destiny vs Strike Freedom' threads eventually...

I'd say Suzaku fought fairly well. A testimony to his "unparalleled" skills, perhaps. Sarcasm aside, he did get a sword destroyed, and the fight was never really resolved because of how the Guren fell.

You know the answer to that don't you. THis ceratinly started out that way.

True they both still had means to continue the fight and eitherone could win. That's all i want in this, no need to diminish someones abilities just because you prefer his/her opponent. edit: So if i get something near that i won't need to post my sarcastic replys.



One thing bugs me. Did Lulu really plan to let Kallen kill Cornelia before Suzaku arrived? Didn't he speak about capturing her alive and interrogating her? Did he just forget about all that?

[blablablub.]

Originally Posted by Majek

The fact that he fought a suit with completely unknown specs had nothing to do with him being shocked, no it's all about Karen's awesome skills she developed over the night

.

I bet its the authors intension to give Karen the "over night" skill development cause now she has a "real" reason to fight, her mother that she now fights for and the fact that she now belive with the C.L.II Japen is not infiror to Britannia anymore.
I would call it the "ego boost", its all about the moral of the troops.

[evil|plushie]

Originally Posted by c^2

I think it is something completely different. When she did it, she said something about the value of trying it, so I think that not even she was sure of the outcome.

Agreed. Though, a couple things about her make me wonder.

1. Given her regenerative abilities, why does she still have that scar? Could it be that it isn't a scar, but rather a wound which will never heal? That is a rather unpleasant thought, but given the persecution of her kind, and the continued experimentation, it seems possible that someone discover a way to do that.

2. Why is her hair green? In all the flashbacks, not one other of her kind had green hair.

The scar could have been there before she got her current regenerative abilities. A possibility from being experimented on? Could also have been the cause of her hair turning green.