[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Jan-Poo]

Probably for a similar reason she doesn't say anything about Kinzo being dead since a long time...

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Probably for a similar reason she doesn't say anything about Kinzo being dead since a long time...

This is something that's been going on even longer than Kinzo's life or death status and it only took the adults a year to catch onto that scheme.

Unless she was maybe under the orders of the 19th caller not to saying anything.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Well the "problem" is that "accomplice B" must be Natsuhi, because she's the one who took the key. Of course you could still say that Genji (I think it was him) with a sleight of hands gave Natsuhi a different key.

I did just say that they opened a new padlock, and those almost always contain two keys.

Originally Posted by Marion

Unless she was maybe under the orders of the 19th caller not to saying anything.

The internal phone lines were cut in Ep1. Probably.

[imaginari]

I don't consider the phone calls in EP4 to be strong evidence of what anyone saw or didn't see. All of them, including the ones from the prison, mentioned impossible things such as pitfalls and Kinzo being alive.

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

The internal phone lines were cut in Ep1. Probably.

Then how did Maria or Beatrice call Natsuhi towards the end?

[TeeHee]

Originally Posted by Judoh

You scared?

More like I wanted to avoid the EP6 spoilers at all costs, but I buried my head so deep in the first four episodes that I don't care anymore; I think I have at least half the answers.

Originally Posted by Pinguma

I like it, nice idea. Though Nanjo and (maybe)Hideyoshi are killed even though they are most likely the accomplices (Hideyoshi in particular), which suggests the culprit is a pretty harsh person. :S

There are no unidentified corpses, and all of the survivors have alibis!

Shannon would have to be A as Battler doesn't identify her, (he also doesn't check Hideyoshi in the second twilight but thats probably not necessary, no point in also suspecting Nanjo since its not required), Hideyoshi is C (though it may not even have been intentional) as Nanjo doesn't check Shannon. B is interesting since Natsuhi is the one to take the shed key so she would be it. She would also be D since she leaves for 'Father's study' when they all gather in the parlor. The accomplice list looks a tad strange to be honest but Natsuhi is shot at the very end and Hideyoshi is presumably killed. I thought Natsuhi's 'innocence' may have been universal though. Oh well.
Either way, I can't consider a better possibility for the key mystery especially when yours works so well

Of course there is some room for some backstabbings ("Beatrice" betrays her accomplices). Though I want to see if I can offer a good explanation on Natsuhi's key.

It happens that I am mapping out EP1. When I am done, I will release the notes on the EP5 thread. (Maybe I can forward you there from here, unless that's too redundant.)

One other thing about EP1 that bothers me is that all of the "sheep" are gathered at one spot, and then they all heard a slam noise in the basement, Battler included. Don't fall into the trap of thinking, "They were all hearing things." I say that there was definitely someone down there. For now, I will run on that assumption.

It might necessarily mean that someone who is supposed to be dead is alive. Also, having an "alibi" in red does not necessarily mean one is innocent or that the alibi is correct. I want to see how well I can systematically narrow it down.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Kaiba

Then how did Maria or Beatrice call Natsuhi towards the end?

They were reconnected, evidently. (We know they were cut because as I recall Natsuhi tried to use the phones earlier, and couldn't. But I could be wrong on that one.)

I've brought it up before, but the only person who can be cutting the lines is Genji, since the phones remain working in every game in which he does not survive the first twilight.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Marion

This is something that's been going on even longer than Kinzo's life or death status and it only took the adults a year to catch onto that scheme.

Unless she was maybe under the orders of the 19th caller not to saying anything.

Well one year longer. Kanon's should have first appeared to those that were unaware of the conspiracy at the family meeting of 1984, while Kinzo's dead concealment started in 1985.

However I guess the hardest part was keeping Gohda unaware of the shkannon conspiracy, and from his booklet it doesn't look like he knows. This is a lot harder than in the case of Kinzo whom he's not allowed to meet.

Funny thing... he doesn't mention Shannon in his booklet...

I've brought it up before, but the only person who can be cutting the lines is Genji, since the phones remain working in every game in which he does not survive the first twilight.

but the external line is always cut, and apart from EP1 I don't think it was ever said that the internal line wasn't working. And even that one could have been a lie.

[Pinguma]

Originally Posted by TeeHee

Of course there is some room for some backstabbings ("Beatrice" betrays her accomplices). Though I want to see if I can offer a good explanation on Natsuhi's key.

It happens that I am mapping out EP1. When I am done, I will release the notes on the EP5 thread. (Maybe I can forward you there from here, unless that's too redundant.)

One other thing about EP1 that bothers me is that all of the "sheep" are gathered at one spot, and then they all heard a slam noise in the basement, Battler included. Don't fall into the trap of thinking, "They were all hearing things." I say that there was definitely someone down there. For now, I will run on that assumption.

It might necessarily mean that someone who is supposed to be dead is alive. Also, having an "alibi" in red does not necessarily mean one is innocent or that the alibi is correct. I want to see how well I can systematically narrow it down.

As Kaisos Erranon pointed out, Genji too most likely had access to the shed due to duplicate keys and the large number of lines talking about the padlock/key, and well I read that Genji is also one who leaves alone to contact the police after the murder. Natsuhi and Eva go together to see Kinzo and they say he wasn't there. I think George even suggests the duplicate keys in EP1. If not duplicate, there is still room to suggest that Genji gave Natsuhi a fake key.
I think Genji being the one to 'release' Shannon (if she is there) also works out well seeing as both of them seem to be accomplice/culprit in EP2 from what I've gathered of it. The letter in Kinzo's study could most likely have been his work as well.

About your assumption, I think it is fairly safe to assume so, and your blue is also effective.

I'll check out the EP5 thread for your notes when you release them, I look forward to reading them.

[TeeHee]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

An oddly large number of lines are devoted to describing Genji finding a new padlock for the shed, removing it from the box, and giving it along with a key to Natsuhi.

What I noticed was that padlocks like that generally include an extra key, in case one loses the original.

Genji most likely has full access to that shed.

Remember, though, that it was Natsuhi who ordered that the shed be padlocked, and Genji found it after digging through the shed. (It is possible that the culprit anticipated this and readied a second key for an accomplice anyways. Iffy, but possible.)

There is also the possibility that Kinzo's corpse wasn't necessarily hidden in the same place. In other words, Natsuhi could have ordered Kinzo's corpse to be moved to a more secure location: the garden shed. She wouldn't do the dirty work... she would probably hand the task (and the key) to Genji.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

but the external line is always cut, and apart from EP1 I don't think it was ever said that the internal line wasn't working. And even that one could have been a lie.

The external line is cut off by the storm, not by any particular person. Furthermore, like I said, I'm pretty sure that Natsuhi tries the internal line at least once in Ep1, and I'm also pretty sure that they're cut in Ep2... can anyone with time confirm?

[LyricalAura]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

The external line is cut off by the storm, not by any particular person. Furthermore, like I said, I'm pretty sure that Natsuhi tries the internal line at least once in Ep1, and I'm also pretty sure that they're cut in Ep2... can anyone with time confirm?

Checking through my notes, here's what I found about phones.

EP1: Genji tries to call the servants' room in the morning and can't get a dial tone. He reports that the phone isn't working due to lightning, and that it can't be repaired since the location of the damage is unknown. No one tries the phone after this until the call from the parlor. Natsuhi tries an outside line afterward, but it still doesn't work.

EP2: Gohda reports that the phones are down after trying to contact the police in the morning. Rosa considers trying the phone but remembers it isn't working. George is prevented from making a call to Jessica's room by Gohda.

EP3: No one tries the phone. (My notes are sparse for this episode, so confirmation would be good.)

EP4: The internal line continues working for the whole episode.

EP5: The internal line is working as of morning, when Natsuhi receives a call from the man from 19 years ago. When the first twilight is discovered, Lambda says that the external line is down, but the internal line appears to be working. Shannon tries to call Krauss several times and says that the phone is definitely ringing.

EP6: Kyrie says that the internal line "definitely hasn't been interrupted" during her fight with Jessica. Jessica tells Erika she tried to call the mansion, but "no one picked up the phone", which implies that it connected properly. Erika stops Gohda from calling the police, telling him that the external line has definitely been interrupted (no reason given for how she knew). Krauss claims the internal line isn't connecting to Kinzo's study and might have been broken by the culprit, as an excuse for not being able to reach Kinzo.

[Jan-Poo]

So like I remembered the only thing that has been generally confirmed is that the external line is down, but there is no confirmation that the internal line has ever been cut, and we actually see it working in many instances. The only exception is EP1 but since it was Genji who tried it, it might have been a lie all along.

BTW the only one that ever tried communication via radio was Genji, again...

[LyricalAura]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

So like I remembered the only thing that has been generally confirmed is that the external line is down, but there is no confirmation that the internal line has ever been cut, and we actually see it working in many instances. The only exception is EP1 but since it was Genji who tried it, it might have been a lie all along.

BTW the only one that ever tried communication via radio was Genji, again...

Gohda tried the radio in EP2, but he's just as suspicious as Genji, especially since he actively stopped someone from trying the phone.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

The external line is cut off by the storm, not by any particular person. Furthermore, like I said, I'm pretty sure that Natsuhi tries the internal line at least once in Ep1, and I'm also pretty sure that they're cut in Ep2... can anyone with time confirm?

Do we actually know the external line has been cut off by the storm? Given that people are trying to suggest calling the police in the morning, it seems a bit strange that they would assume that. On the contrary, it appears they don't think the storm would affect the external line.

Which isn't to say it wasn't cut off by lightning, but wouldn't a potential culprit make sure of it?

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

Gohda tried the radio in EP2, but he's just as suspicious as Genji, especially since he actively stopped someone from trying the phone.

Oh... really? I have totally forgot that...

[LyricalAura]

Originally Posted by Renall

Do we actually know the external line has been cut off by the storm? Given that people are trying to suggest calling the police in the morning, it seems a bit strange that they would assume that. On the contrary, it appears they don't think the storm would affect the external line.

Which isn't to say it wasn't cut off by lightning, but wouldn't a potential culprit make sure of it?

I know that if I were planning a bunch of fake murders, I'd disable the external line to make sure there weren't any horrible misunderstandings with the police before the game was over. It's entirely possible the fakers cut the line, rather than the actual murderer.

The internal line would be too useful to disable for the conspirators, since they could use it for their own coordination. In that case it's better to just make it seem like it's down so that the other people won't try to use it.

[Judoh]

What's the external line anyway? With the internal line I thought it was wiring in the walls that made it work, but I'm not sure how the external line works. The external line might be referring to the radio rather than a phone line.

If I remember correctly Kanon explained the phones not working in episode 1 as being because the mansion was really old and they could break at any time, but Kanon wasn't the person who checked the phone line, and I think Kanon was narrating the story in that scene.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Judoh

What's the external line anyway? With the internal line I thought it was wiring in the walls that made it work, but I'm not sure how the external line works. The external line might be referring to the radio rather than a phone line.

If I remember correctly Kanon explained the phones not working in episode 1 as being because the mansion was really old and they could break at any time, but Kanon wasn't the person who checked the phone line, and I think Kanon was narrating the story in that scene.

In the days before cell phones and satellite phones, the "external line" would almost certainly have been cabling run between Rokkenjima and Nijima along the floor of the ocean.

I find it highly improbable the cabling would be broken out at sea. It was almost certainly either damaged in a lightning strike (blowing out the box where it attached to the mansion) or deliberately disconnected at one end.

Note that we can't exactly be entirely sure which end, if you want to buy into an off-island mastermind theory.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Renall

In the days before cell phones and satellite phones, the "external line" would almost certainly have been cabling run between Rokkenjima and Nijima along the floor of the ocean.

I find it highly improbable the cabling would be broken out at sea. It was almost certainly either damaged in a lightning strike (blowing out the box where it attached to the mansion) or deliberately disconnected at one end.

Note that we can't exactly be entirely sure which end, if you want to buy into an off-island mastermind theory.

Rather than an off island mastermind. Would the ticket Kyrie had in her pocket in episode 3 be a hint that she cut the external line on the Nijima side before she came to the island? I think we can explain it being cut before October 4th too. The earliest it could happen though is October 3rd. Because the caller in episode 5 has to call at some point before that and Natsuhi and Krauss have to be given a chance to call everyone to come for the island meeting. There's no reason we can't deduce that the external line was cut before October 4th though since nobody really checks the external line until after a plotline murder happens.