[Manga] Chapter 404 Discussion

[Sarugaki]

^ Kabuto is a wild card but I don't think he will ever reach Oro's level, let alone Pein's or Madara's ( although a well prepared Oro is obviously hokage level )

The big question about him is do the cells he implanted in himself have Oro's conciousness ? Will he become Oro eventually or just Kabuto 2.0 ?



Random thoughts :

I really hope Oro or Itachi will make a comeback somehow, at least one of these two.

Kakashi must have a big fight, one on one against a good oponent, with no babysitting involved, I think it's time for an upgrade.

Sasuke is not as dumb as he looks, he did pwn Oro afterall, I'm sure his hatred for Konoha's big shots is real, but that doesn't mean he trusts Madara 100%.

The eight-tail is a snake, and his supposed name is Orochi, right ? I wonder how Kishimoto will work around that, Oro IS the snake guy of the series, and that would make them two.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

And his red eyes were probably just because they were bloodshot with anger. I don't really think Kabuto is a jinchuuriki (since he worked for Sasori), but it's not impossible.

I guess that was a hint from Kishimoto that Kabuto is not entirely sane. When being with Orochimaru his old insane self was buried under his cold inteligence, but even then he was experimenting on living and dead people and he participated in all of Orochimaru's disgusting experiments. I guess Orochimaru's death triggered Kabuto's madness to come out.

For Kabuto being the container of the 8 tails the only logical explanation would be that Orochimaru wanted to have the 8-tails demon hidden from akatsuki, so he had kabuto under his control. But apart from this explanation all other facts that we know about Kabuto indicate that he is nothing special, so that he does not have the demon.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by The Small One

The Jutsu, which summons them has a limited amount of chakra, and after this chakra is depleted, they automatically get transported back to whereever they were before.
That's how a normal Kuchiyose works.
Of course it's also possible, that the summoned one can stay at the new place, but that's an advanced kind of teleportation jutsu... I think the 4th used something like this and Madara is also teleporting around. This kind of Jutsu probably requires a lot more chakra.

That is a different view, but if I remember correctly, Gamabunta said something along the lines of "I am at my limit". I think that refers more to his own chakra rather than the chakra of the jutsu. (It is also interesting that Kakashi's dogs seemed to stay longer)

I still cannot see why they have to go back if they are in the same world. Based on this view, Kuchiyose becomes not any different from a typical teleportation jutsu, or Yondaime's flash jutsu, since you just teleport within the same world using a seal and chakra. It is just changing places within the same world, instead of bringing something from another protected dimension. It also does not explain the blood and other requirements. And of course the strange fresh air comment Gamabunta made as if he is coming from a factory town (considering that it comes from a mountain area, this is pretty strange).

Originally Posted by tatami

well boss frog WANTED to hang around after naruto summoned him, its up to the summon I think and why the hell they would stay after their chakra is low? they are mostly summoned in to a fight and low chakra means danger...

If you are referring to the part when Naruto summoned Gamabunta the first time, that part was not in the manga (checked it yesterday). It is filler. Regarding the low chakra, it is pretty strange to have a chakra connection if it comes from the same world. Even if you can find reasons for that, I have to ask, why in the first place there is such a requirement. They can unsummon themselves whenever they want, without the need of a seal, as far as I know. Anyway, there are many strange issues with that jutsu, and I doubt Kishi is a capable person to solve that puzzle....

[HiroInazuma]

Maybe the summoning thing is kind of like Summon Night, they can leave at their will but can only come when summoned but also the Summoner can make them leave

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by Endrance

i wondering if all the hiding of his face is due to the fact that he's masquerading as yet another person. Hes already Madara, Tobi, and Mizukage i wonder who else madara has been pretending to be

Tobi is his only other alias. Mizukage is a title. Unless he's not the real Mizukage but stole the role and pretended to be someone else, Madara was the Mizukage when Kisame was in the village. Come to think of it we never knew how Kisame became a part of Akatsuki other than simply being Itachi's partner.

I do think that Madara's face is meant to surprise us. Kishimoto keeps making his unmasking suspenseful without us seeing the face. He wouldn't do it if there wasn't a good reason.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

We know what Madara's face looked like 90 years ago.

Ofcourse but do you really think he's just trying to conceal the face of an old man?

Madara shouldn't even be alive. He was an adult when Sandaime, Danzou and the elders were children. Somehow he has become immortal and the preservation of youth is a trademark of immortality.

So I would expect him to look virtually the same as he did in his prime. What we do know about his appearance is that he has a shorter haircut. It's also interesting that his mask only reveals one eye.

He could have been scarred in the battle with Shodaime but I get the feeling that it is more significant than that.

[cheese no koma]

so there's going to be a big party at konoha eh? can't wait for Gai v Kisame round 3 plus other possible matchups such as Kurenai/Shino V Zetsu the weed, Kakashi V Madara, Tsunade/Naruto v Pein, Sakura v Karin, Choji V Jugo, the possibilities are just endless.

Before that, it looks like there'll be a new arc involving the 8th bijuu and possibly Kabuto. Come on kishi!!

[tatami]

Originally Posted by cheese no koma

so there's going to be a big party at konoha eh? can't wait for Gai v Kisame round 3 plus other possible matchups such as Kurenai/Shino V Zetsu the weed, Kakashi V Madara, Tsunade/Naruto v Pein, Sakura v Karin, Choji V Jugo, the possibilities are just endless.

Before that, it looks like there'll be a new arc involving the 8th bijuu and possibly Kabuto. Come on kishi!!

well kurenai is unable to fight you know , and kakashi is no match for madara , not even with his team with back up pain wont be showing up i think that means an actual war between konoha and rain karin is going after 8 tails

[cheese no koma]

Originally Posted by tatami

well kurenai is unable to fight you know , and kakashi is no match for madara , not even with his team with back up pain wont be showing up i think that means an actual war between konoha and rain karin is going after 8 tails

lol, with all the recent uchiha flashbacks and events, i think maybe Kurenai has had enough time to give birth to little Asuma. As for kakashi, there really isn't anyone for him to fight apart from Madara since naruto will almost certainly take on sasuke, not to say that he won't fight Sasuke.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by tatami

well kurenai is unable to fight you know , and kakashi is no match for madara , not even with his team with back up pain wont be showing up i think that means an actual war between konoha and rain karin is going after 8 tails

LOL Madara is going to walk around the village saying, "Nah Nah, you can't touch me." Then Kakashi will show up, opening his MS, and then teleport Madara to an alternate dimension where no one will ever see him again. Then Sasuke will soil himself in fear, Pein will make some inane comment on how Kakashi's MS is his "weakness", and Naruto will be wandering around the Toad mountain wondering when he will be interesting as a character again.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Sarugaki

The eight-tail is a snake, and his supposed name is Orochi, right ? I wonder how Kishimoto will work around that, Oro IS the snake guy of the series, and that would make them two.

Yeah with Sasuke being kind of snaky for a while there and Kabuto becoming more snake-like, we really don't need anymore characters with a serpent theme.

The Yamata no Orochi is what a lot of fans believe the 8-tails demon would be based on. However, that monster was known for its eight heads, not 8 tails and it was already represented in the story by Oro's hydra technique, so the bijuu probably won't be the orochi.

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

Ofcourse but do you really think he's just trying to conceal the face of an old man?

Madara shouldn't even be alive. He was an adult when Sandaime, Danzou and the elders were children. Somehow he has become immortal and the preservation of youth is a trademark of immortality.

So I would expect him to look virtually the same as he did in his prime. What we do know about his appearance is that he has a shorter haircut. It's also interesting that his mask only reveals one eye.

He could have been scarred in the battle with Shodaime but I get the feeling that it is more significant than that.

I think I kinda misunderstood your last post. I thought you were saying that there was no need to hide Madara's face since you believed it hadn't changed at all, but it sounds like you're saying you don't believe it's changed from aging.

I'm not sure. When Madara revealed a bit of his face to Sasuke there were wrinkles (but they didn't look like wrinkles due to old age IMO). There could be any number of reasons Madara's face is covered. Characters' appearances can change in all kinds of weird ways (Sasori, Nagato, Kabuto). But Madara's interaction with Kisame suggests he doesn't wear a mask under his Mizukage identity.

[tatami]

Originally Posted by james3wk

LOL Madara is going to walk around the village saying, "Nah Nah, you can't touch me." Then Kakashi will show up, opening his MS, and then teleport Madara to an alternate dimension where no one will ever see him again. Then Sasuke will soil himself in fear, Pein will make some inane comment on how Kakashi's MS is his "weakness", and Naruto will be wandering around the Toad mountain wondering when he will be interesting as a character again.

the only problem is madara can teleport himself quicker than kakashi teleporrts something and anser this : can he teleport a non material object to another dimension?

[Sazelyt]

I am wondering, after the summoning discussion, what is the relationship between Yondaime's teleport jutsu and the toads? Also, how many of Jiraiya's jutsus were taught by the toads, other than the directly toad related ones (for instance, the hair extending one-I have always liked that one-)? What about the knowledge on seals and elementals?

I don't think the training will last long, so, Naruto will only need to learn the key techniques. But, if the place where the training takes place has the characteristics of another dimension, the training there may take shorter than how it takes in the real world (too much resemblance to something I seem to know)....How I wish the training to start with the army of toads meeting Naruto in a valley kind of place. We can observe all the toads in one frame.

And, another thing, if Naruto goes for training to a place that is within this world, it would be highly interesting to see how Madara's people or Sasuke's people will be able to find him or not find him, despite having the necessary tools for that. If it happens that Naruto is out of reach and they learn that, our expectations of a fight taking place within this year, that may eliminate Tsunade, depends on Sasuke's success or impatience.

Regarding Madara's words to Sasuke, it was strange to see that Madara thought that he could not win against Konoha with Akatsuki. Based on the impressions, there are 3-4 Kage levels, in addition to ninjas from Rain and Mist (and Jiraiya, Sandaime, and Itachi are already gone). So, there might be a few people that Madara was giving special importance. Danzou? Elders? Or some other people we don't know? Or does he assume Sand will be there for Konoha?

[NarutowithSharingan]

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

I bet Kabuto has the 8-tails. There's going to be some story about how Orochimaru had secretly captured the Hachibi and hidden it away when he left Akatsuki. This will lead to a showdown between 8-tail Kabuchimaru and mangekyo Sasuke.

In this last chapter, it seems like Itachi was the only major obstacle for Madara, which implies that he doesn't view Pain as an enemy. On the other hand, where is Pain?

I was thinking the same thing about Kabuto. It is heading down that direction. Remember when Kabuto went to Naruto, Yamato, Hinata and Bull (dog) he said that he is gonna go after Sasuke. Most likely he would do that after defeating the Orochi side of him and learning his jutsu. But that would be pretty soon.

[james0246]

I just thought about this...wouldn't it be cool if Naruto came back from Skull Mount...Toad Mountain smoking a pipe similiar in style to the ones that the Toads use. Nothing says that you are more mature than smoking a pipe.

[cheese no koma]

Originally Posted by Fipskuul

I am wondering, after the summoning discussion, what is the relationship between Yondaime's teleport jutsu and the toads? Also, how many of Jiraiya's jutsus were taught by the toads, other than the directly toad related ones (for instance, the hair extending one-I have always liked that one-)? What about the knowledge on seals and elementals?

I don't think the training will last long, so, Naruto will only need to learn the key techniques. But, if the place where the training takes place has the characteristics of another dimension, the training there may take shorter than how it takes in the real world (too much resemblance to something I seem to know)....How I wish the training to start with the army of toads meeting Naruto in a valley kind of place. We can observe all the toads in one frame.

And, another thing, if Naruto goes for training to a place that is within this world, it would be highly interesting to see how Madara's people or Sasuke's people will be able to find him or not find him, despite having the necessary tools for that. If it happens that Naruto is out of reach and they learn that, our expectations of a fight taking place within this year, that may eliminate Tsunade, depends on Sasuke's success or impatience.

Regarding Madara's words to Sasuke, it was strange to see that Madara thought that he could not win against Konoha with Akatsuki. Based on the impressions, there are 3-4 Kage levels, in addition to ninjas from Rain and Mist (and Jiraiya, Sandaime, and Itachi are already gone). So, there might be a few people that Madara was giving special importance. Danzou? Elders? Or some other people we don't know? Or does he assume Sand will be there for Konoha?

Considering there are other Jonins and Chunins apart from the usual cast, i think madara was right to say that akatsuki and hawk alone won't be sufficient to take down konoha. Facing a team of 3-4 jonin is no easy task, even for a kage level ninja.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I think I kinda misunderstood your last post. I thought you were saying that there was no need to hide Madara's face since you believed it hadn't changed at all, but it sounds like you're saying you don't believe it's changed from aging.

I'm just saying that I would expect him to be recognizable. The fact that they're making the appearance of his face a mystery is interesting to me.

I'm not sure. When Madara revealed a bit of his face to Sasuke there were wrinkles (but they didn't look like wrinkles due to old age IMO). There could be any number of reasons Madara's face is covered. Characters' appearances can change in all kinds of weird ways (Sasori, Nagato, Kabuto).

Yeah, it looked like scar tissue to me. Characters certainly don't need to be much older to undergo changes in appearance. The key thing here is that Kishimoto is deliberately concealing his face and I suspect a significant reason.

But Madara's interaction with Kisame suggests he doesn't wear a mask under his Mizukage identity.

Indeed.

His face, as I said, is recognizable to Kisame. Also notice that Kisame says, "Mizukage, or rather Madara-san".

I take that to mean that it isn't commonly known that the Mizukage is Uchiha Madara. Not to the outside world, obviously, but perhaps even within the Hidden Mist. Zabuza seemed to have only heard of the Sharingan through reputation when he fought Kakashi yet he wanted to overthrow the Mizukage. He was also surprised to see that Sasuke was a survivor of the Uchiha clan massacre.

I think we'll find out the relationship between Madara's connection to the Hidden Mist and Kisame's relationship with him soon. Kishimoto has yet to write a backstory for Kisame other than being a super strong, S-rank assassin with a badass sword. There were hints in this chapter that Kisame is finally going to play a major part in the next arc.

[Tettsuo]

It just seems odd to me that Madara made it a point to show Sasuke his face in private. Why would Sasuke care about his face, he doesn't know Madara from a hole in the wall?

He only seems to expose his face when he is alone with one other person. I'm betting it's not a coincedience, but a calculated act. He wanted to garner loyalty from both Sasuke and Kisame and his first act is to expose his face briefly to them.

There's certainly more than his vanity that forces him to hide his face...

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

I don't think Madara is a shapeshifter. Considering the fact that using Henge no Jutsu, to disguise yourself as someone else, is a common ability among Ninja in the Narutoverse there would be no point to making this a trademark of Madara.

Not implying that he's a shapeshifter. I'm actually remembering something Itachi said about Madara being a living illusion.

[reloaded]

fair enough he hides his face but I still dont understand why he doest make a hole for the other eye, somethings up with that.

[Phenomenal]

Anyone understand Madara? I just don't understand the guy, he wants war because he is bitter against Uchiha and Konoha? He feels "betrayed," by both. Well Uchiha is dead, and now he wants war with Konoha, What? This faggot stole his own brothers eye's for power and fame and STILL Madara got his ass kicked by Harashima boat loads of times. He claims the Nine-tails attack on Konoha was natural and he had nothing to do with it..Well I believe Itachi not Madara. Now that Itachi is gone he is gonna attack Konoha.

I swear, I pray that Pein kills this punk or follows his own plan, didn't Pein have his own motive about building a military Or is that Madara's goal too?

[reloaded]

The more I think about it the more this seems like starwars.

Pein = The phantom menace guy
Jiraiya = Qui-Gon Jinn(killed by the p.menace)
Naruto = Obi wan(needs to avenge his master)

Madara = the evil emperor
Sasuke = Anakin(went to the dark side)