(L+CR) Nagi no Asukara (Nagi-Asu: A Lull in the Sea)

[deadite]

Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat

Though by no means is it bad as the first 4 episodes or so of the first cour, this intentional romance shipping drama is starting to get on my nerves, which the recent eps have dwelled into. I am just... not interested at all. It seems to be a hot topic of contention amongst various forums everywhere, but it gets really tiring when 90% of discussions resorts to some "shipping war" and I swear I've skipped around a hundred pages of it by now. It's irritating and is something that Okada LOVES doing and she just needs to stop and get to the more interesting bits (aka the impending ice age apocalypse, what happened to the sea villages, development OTHER than character romance, which frankly isn't going anywhere at this point). If they have to take the romance route, then stop pussy footing around and actually develop Chisaki x Tsugumu's relationship and Miuna needs to stop being lovestruck over Hikari. Also delete Sayu from this show... she's being very obnoxious and annoying and serves no purpose other than to eccentuate as much angst as possible. Last week's episode was particularly bad at this, though this week was not much better.

Don't want this show to be PA Work's version of Ano Hana with supernatural elements as one is more than sufficient - If Menma Manaka is actually dead and comes back towards the end of the stories to encourage the cast to "move on" I will seriously lose it in ironic laughter . Having romance elements is fine, but not when it's so dominated by it. I want it to be a story that explores climate change, racial differences/reconciliation and proper character drama other than adolescent/young adult romance wangst.

I don't see the problem when the show is basically headed to those none romance themes. They are headed back down to Shioshishio which is a development that many are excited about. Professor Mihashi was basically introduced to cover the climate change aspects and Uroko's inevitable return will cover the fantastic aspect. All these things that directly affect the cast's relationship with each other.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Except it's clearly this shift in focus to Miuna and Sayu that's moved the needle and turned the series from a flop into potentially a modest commercial success. You or I may bemoan what it's doing to the show, but Okada is laughing all the way to the bank.

I don't know, my idea is that it was the time skip and implied consequences that moved that needle, more than the shift focus. But that consequences are not being explored yet by now, here where the exposition fails, in my opinion. And the more I read about the show the more I find people annoyed by Miuna, so indirectly by that. That is just my impression obviously.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Arya

I don't know, my idea is that it was the time skip and implied consequences that moved that needle, more than the shift focus. But that consequences are not being explored yet by now, here where the exposition fails, in my opinion. And the more I read about the show the more I find people annoyed by Miuna, so indirectly by that. That is just my impression obviously.

I disagree, but of course it's just speculation either way - there's no way to prove what caused the spike, though it's the timing that's the basis for my argument. That, and looking at the list of shows that sell on Blu-ray and those that don't.

[liro]

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[Triple_R]

I'm inclined to agree with Guardian Enzo - The shift from Manaka/Chisaki to Miuna/Sayu probably made the show more appealing to regular anime DVD/Blu-Ray buyers. I think the more transparent, expressive, straightforward style of Miuna/Sayu tends to sell better than the subtler style of Manaka/Chisaki, at least when it comes to major female characters. It might also help that Miuna/Sayu are somewhat more tsundere than Manaka/Chisaki.

[Kanon]

I don't know how relevant it actually is to a character's overall popularity, but I find it interesting to compare the amount of fanarts each characters has on pixiv.



Manaka: 523
Chisaki: 449
Hikari: 256
Tsumugu: 230
Miuna: 177
Kaname: 168
Sayu: 65
Uroko: 60
Akari: 12

Manaka is still getting a lot of fanarts despite her absence from the show (more than Miuna has been getting since the timeskip), she seems to be very popular. I have to admit I find this a bit surprising. I like her, but I find Chisaki and Miuna more appealing, both design and personality wise. Manaka strikes me as the most moe character in the show though, so that could explain that.

[Haak]

^ Lol, Uroko has more fanart than Akari.

Originally Posted by Arya

What I really don't get, and I didn't get back then, is why exhausting all the screen time over Miuna instead of having a more balanced time allocation to even the side characters (because as of now they are side characters). As Pocari_Sweat said there are several different and interesting threads pending from a while and treating them slowly along a span of different episodes would be something to be expected from a skilled writer as Okada. That would have even helped Miuna to come off better than what she's actually doing.

If you're talking about all those non-romantic threads, then I'd speculate that it's probably because Okada has been exhausting all those threads on Hikari and Akari since the first cour, to the point where there's hardly anything left for the others. That said, there should be still be some potential. You'd think Chisaki would jump at any chance at rediscovering Shioshishio considering that's where her real family is. It could even be a further point of tension in the Chisaki-Tsumugu relationship, or even the Chisaki-Kihara relationship. Can she leave her sick foster grandfather if her real family comes back for her? That's a highly compelling plot point, right there.

Although I don't particularly mind this increased focus on romance (the more captions I get for Kaname suffering, the better) nor the increased focus on Miuna and Sayu, but I do have to sympathise with others such as Pocari Sweat who say that there should be more focus on the non romantic elements. Personally, I've always felt the romance was the weaker side of this story throughout the first cour. It never really developed all that much until towards the end and by then was a little late for that. That seems to be the case here too where, after the four episodes, the romance seems to have barely moved past its premise.

However, I wonder if there are other factors at play here. If you think about it, these past few episodes have actually been pretty chocked full of developments: Episode 14 spent the episode establishing just how much things have shaken up with a five year twist (huge developments in themselves) before bringing Hikari back. Episode 15 then spent time reintroducing and establishing Hikari into the new situation. Episode 16 was mostly a throw away breather episode, but also established another twist with Miuna's ena. Episode 17 then had to spend time reintroducing Kaname into the equation and set up the groundwork for the mystery of Shioshishio to be touched upon. The problem with all this is that it's mostly what we all new was going to happen, thanks to the spoilerific key visual we got between the two cours and the spoilerific opening theme. Because of that we were essentially waiting for it all to hurry up and establish what we knew was going to happen. Anyone who had been lucky enough to avoid the key visual and OP would probably thought loads happened, but to us (or at least for me) only the premise has been established and it's only starting to move now. Add to that, it seems Okada never managed to rectify the narrative and pacing issue that the first cour had. As Triple_R noted, "the plot had a thickness and a pacing one would expect of an one-cour show, but the character development had the pacing one would expect of a two-cour show". Because so much content is packed into these episodes it still feels like there's a huge contrast between that and the much more gradual pacing of the characters so it still feels like it's going around in circles.

Now hopefully our patience will be rewarded like it was in the first cour and the next episode episode will start moving the plot in better directions but Hikari doesn't seem to command the focus like he used to and it's hard to see Miuna having any more sides to her added at this point. Maybe the mystery of Shioshishio will begin to establish itself as a welcome alternative since that is where it will need to go if Manaka is to have any more relevance (which once again thanks to OP is probably the case). One other possibility is that the sheer quantity of unrequited romantic angles is enough to jam pack the remaining episodes through resolutions alone. Like what happened with the romance in the first cour, only with even more characters.

As for DVD/BD sales it should be easy to see how the change in focus to Miuna and Saya has increased the show's popularity: They're girls. Give more perspective to female characters of around marketable age (14-19) and you're pretty much bound to get more interest. Chisaki and Manaka were just below that level and didn't have the same amount of POV that Miuna and Sayu have. It's the reason why we see far more all female casts than we do all male casts: It's cute girls doing cute things. Plus Miuna gives massive brocon vibes and we all know that sells too.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I disagree, but of course it's just speculation either way - there's no way to prove what caused the spike, though it's the timing that's the basis for my argument. That, and looking at the list of shows that sell on Blu-ray and those that don't.

Yep, and we'll probably never be able to prove it, it's just that I'm having this feeling that things are not working as the author was expecting to, even I agree with you all that usually girls are a win, on paper. More or less as much as the fanarts stats Kanon posted. If this has a direct correlation to the BD sales it's hard to say.

Originally Posted by Haak

If you're talking about all those non-romantic threads, then I'd speculate that it's probably because Okada has been exhausting all those threads on Hikari and Akari since the first cour, to the point where there's hardly anything left for the others. That said, there should be still be some potential. You'd think Chisaki would jump at any chance at rediscovering Shioshishio considering that's where her real family is. It could even be a further point of tension in the Chisaki-Tsumugu relationship, or even the Chisaki-Kihara relationship. Can she leave her sick foster grandfather if her real family comes back for her? That's a highly compelling plot point, right there.

I'm quoting just your first paragraph, but it quite centered my point. Because well it's hard to speculate about how exhausted those threads are if the narrative didn't focus on them. I mean, is exaclty as you also said, I find that Chisaki could have a lot of potential. Her role, together with tsumugu seems to have been build around the family theme, from different angles. Starting with her taking care of his foster grandfather and her choice to become a nurse. Plus they basically have build their own family even if they are still oblivious about that, so what will happen when her real parents come back? Chisaki has been portrayed as a very reliable person on which the sea people had been counting on differently than Manaka. So I'm expecting that maybe somehow she will be asked to go back to the sea village. This fact could be even be related back to the earlier social conflicts between sea people and land people. And so to Kaname as counter part of Tsumugu, that is the only one that is not strictly connected to the sea village now that Miuna gained her Ena. So giving room to explore more Kaname's personality. And about family theme what about Tsumugu family issues? They have not been even touched yet, barely implied. And the romance in all of this fits perfectly and has a pivotal role even if maybe not being central (I bet it will be BTW).

But when Chisaki had the opportunity to go back to Shioshishio she just asked a vague question. Why not spend 10 second to let us know something, not much, just something about that. When instead she panicked about Hikari.

The same could be said about the ena matter, it was handled a bit too easily. Not letting me to be invested in that enough to take it seriously. Again one could be expecting that Tsumugu could have been interested in that. God, he was obsessed by Shioshishio, instead he acted like he is accused to, like Robo-kun. He didn't even flinch. And I'm not taking into account that he is studying all that stuff.

And I also don't care about the amount of romance, really. It's just that it's jarring and frustrating that the show seems to be focusing only to one new character when so much could be said about something that has been build up over more or less the first cour. I'm not saying that the show should focus on that instead, I know that sooner or later it will, but it's the precision on how the other threads seems to be kept away that is too evident and jarring opposed to a new arc that instead doesn't feel so interesting if portrayed for a whole episode.

And that's why I think that Miuna is not coming off so well. She seems to be imposed instead of being introduced (gradually would be a plus), increasing even the perception that she is trying to usurp Manaka's place. But that aspect is something I don't care much, but doesn't help her either.
On the other hand I think that Sayu is coming off better because she had the right time for the content her story had.
Anyways, let's wait and see. I'm not very confident for the next episode.

[Haak]

Well to be honest I think that's at least partly intended. Episode 13 tore apart the original band of kids we grew to care about and I think imposing Miuna and delaying the plot threads left over from the original group is meant to be a way of driving home the feeling that things aren't the same anymore and that it'll take a while for these things to fix so they can finally be addressed again.

[Kirarakim]

I do think the show has focused a bit to much on romance in the 2nd half so far but it's only been 4 episodes into the 2nd half.

People were complaining about Hikari's character at this point too in the 1st half not giving him a chance to grow either.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

I do think the show has focused a bit to much on romance in the 2nd half so far but it's only been 4 episodes into the 2nd half.

People were complaining about Hikari's character at this point too in the 1st half not giving him a chance to grow either.

Except I would be willing to bet that there's a strong correlation between the folks who were complaining about Hikari then and the ones who like the direction of the series now.

[deadite]

I think Miuna was gradually introduced. She was in every episode... I think it boiled down to people who didn't like Miuna arcs and those who liked them. People who liked Miuna probably saw her rise to importance. People who didn't like her are understandibly horrified that somehow she is the main character. I love all the characters either way so I welcome the increased focus of Miuna. I also look forward to their underwater adventure and the inevitable return of our favorite scale.

I don't like what you're implying Enzo. Is it somewhat wrong to think that where the show is headed is good? You were very adamant about the timeskip from the start. Some of us saw it coming a mile away. Some of us stuck with this show just like you from the very beginning and didn't bash Hikari. But it seems when it comes to timeskip and Miuna is concerned that is where we differ.

So,e things I'm looking to be addressed: Manaka's wish to the sea slug and what was Manaka's conversation with Tsumugu about. It cut off after Tsumugu asked "what's the matter?"

[Birdway]

Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat

Though by no means is it bad as the first 4 episodes or so of the first cour, this intentional romance shipping drama is starting to get on my nerves, which the recent eps have dwelled into. I am just... not interested at all. It seems to be a hot topic of contention amongst various forums everywhere, but it gets really tiring when 90% of discussions resorts to some "shipping war" and I swear I've skipped around a hundred pages of it by now. It's irritating and is something that Okada LOVES doing and she just needs to stop and get to the more interesting bits (aka the impending ice age apocalypse, what happened to the sea villages, development OTHER than character romance, which frankly isn't going anywhere at this point). If they have to take the romance route, then stop pussy footing around and actually develop Chisaki x Tsugumu's relationship and Miuna needs to stop being lovestruck over Hikari. Also delete Sayu from this show... she's being very obnoxious and annoying and serves no purpose other than to eccentuate as much angst as possible. Last week's episode was particularly bad at this, though this week was not much better.

Don't want this show to be PA Work's version of Ano Hana with supernatural elements as one is more than sufficient - If Menma Manaka is actually dead and comes back towards the end of the stories to encourage the cast to "move on" I will seriously lose it in ironic laughter . Having romance elements is fine, but not when it's so dominated by it. I want it to be a story that explores climate change, racial differences/reconciliation and proper character drama other than adolescent/young adult romance wangst.

I'm tired of that shit too. Lets face it, there is no progress in this second half so far, just fans nitpicking on details making them look grand.

And it's become so annoying that I want the most claimed ships to backfire and sink on a very Okada's fashion .

Originally Posted by Kanon

I don't know how relevant it actually is to a character's overall popularity, but I find it interesting to compare the amount of fanarts each characters has on pixiv.


Manaka: 523
Chisaki: 449
Hikari: 256
Tsumugu: 230
Miuna: 177
Kaname: 168
Sayu: 65
Uroko: 60
Akari: 12

Manaka is still getting a lot of fanarts despite her absence from the show (more than Miuna has been getting since the timeskip), she seems to be very popular. I have to admit I find this a bit surprising. I like her, but I find Chisaki and Miuna more appealing, both design and personality wise. Manaka strikes me as the most moe character in the show though, so that could explain that.

Well, people don't believe she is really dead.
Also on those fanarts Miuna, Kaname and Tsumugu(and Chiski by extension) gets the most popular fanart.

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

I do think the show has focused a bit to much on romance in the 2nd half so far but it's only been 4 episodes into the 2nd half.

People were complaining about Hikari's character at this point too in the 1st half not giving him a chance to grow either.

And now they treat Miuna the same way now that she is the protagonist of this second half .

Originally Posted by deadite

I think Miuna was gradually introduced. She was in every episode... I think it boiled down to people who didn't like Miuna arcs and those who liked them. People who liked Miuna probably saw her rise to importance. People who didn't like her are understandibly horrified that somehow she is the main character. I love all the characters either way so I welcome the increased focus of Miuna. I also look forward to their underwater adventure and the inevitable return of our favorite scale.

So much true, I don't hate any of them but sometimes fans make me hate them .

Originally Posted by deadite

I don't like what you're implying Enzo. Is it somewhat wrong to think that where the show is headed is good? You were very adamant about the timeskip from the start. Some of us saw it coming a mile away. Some of us stuck with this show just like you from the very beginning and didn't bash Hikari. But it seems when it comes to timeskip and Miuna is concerned that is where we differ.

Well, I don't think nobody, even Enzo, had anything against the time skip itself but what it implied.

Just look at Pocari Sweat post, the elements that bring us plot are barely touched and the standing still 'romance' goes to nowhere except to set up incoming suffering(poor Kaname).

[deadite]

I'm tired of that shit too. Lets face it, there is no progress in this second half so far, just fans nitpicking on details making them look grand.

I don't really agree with this. It's the little details that make this show I enjoy the little tidbits. NagiAsu is really good a telling a message with just imagery and scenery alone. I think many underestimate the way this show is shot/directed. PA Works is perfect for this.

I think the second cour is still at a point where everyone is just living their lives and getting used to the new weather. I sense something regarding the climate will escalate soon and raising the stakes.

[Birdway]

It's fine if you like it, but I doubt that's the reason why it took so long to appeal more fans (perhaps becausel the previous season ended and this was the only long running show). If all a good anime needed is visual porno this series would have been more popular (and I know this series got an award only due to its animation).

I want those elements from the first season come back, really.

[deadite]

Originally Posted by Birdway

It's fine if you like it, but I doubt that's the reason why it took so long to appeal more fans (perhaps becausel the previous season ended and this was the only long running show). If all a good anime needed is visual porno this series would have been more popular (and I know this series got an award only due to its animation).

I want those elements from the first season come back, really.

what I meant its not scenery porn for scenery porn's sake. A lot of characters interaction are enhanced and emotions highlighted by the way the scene is shot coupled with the background. Don't you see symbolism of land village seemingly always in decay?

[Birdway]

I did, there was a post about that before, but I'm not into that .

[FlareKnight]

In terms of the focus shift I'm not overly thrilled with the prominence of the Miuna/Sayu combo, but will see how things unfold. In some ways it's like starting fresh after that kind of timeskip so might just take more time to warm up to Miuna in particular. Maybe it is the upfront vs. subtle point that was brought up. Right now so much focus is sitting completely on their one-sided affections. Miuna likes Hikari, Sayu likes Kaname, got it. At least Miuna seemed like a more complex character when she was younger .

But have only had these two at this age for a few episodes so bound to need some time to see what else is going on with them. The rest of the cast really isn't all that changed. Though being asleep explains things for Hikari and Kaname. So far Tsumugu and Chisaki don't feel so different that things feel off.

Anyways curious about the world situation at large. Might get some decent information out of this trip to the village.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by deadite

I don't really agree with this. It's the little details that make this show I enjoy the little tidbits. NagiAsu is really good a telling a message with just imagery and scenery alone. I think many underestimate the way this show is shot/directed. PA Works is perfect for this.

I think the second cour is still at a point where everyone is just living their lives and getting used to the new weather. I sense something regarding the climate will escalate soon and raising the stakes.

This is a bit offtopic so Ill put it in a box.

Spoiler for Possible offtopic material about NagiAsu, PA Works and miscelleanous topics:

NagiAsu uses typical PA Works artstyle with its lush, detailed, vibrant backgrounds, at least above average animation and the bittersweet, mono-no-aware tone they are known for having. Short story short, their series are always beautiful. Even halfass visuals (by PA standards) like Tari Tari or Another are still very much well above average. They are one of the top studios if not the top TV studio when it comes to visual/imagery story telling and is probably the closest studio that comes to Comix Wave (Makoto Shinkai) in this regard, but ofc the two operate in two different frameworks as the latter is not interested in catering towards a latenight hardcore audience. And the latter is also flat out better in every way at achieving it.

I don't really fault PA Works from a production point of view, but I can from a directional point of view. There is a obvious intention to try and salvage this show by catering and appealing towards a certain group (latenight otakus) in its 2nd half. And the sudden increase in disc sales makes me even more convinced. To me it's obvious. The focus has shifted from Hikari and the gang to Miuna and Sayu and they really bring out the worst of "annoying" antics and bad habits of Ms. Mari Okada. I'm talking about the constant wangsty, saccharine melodrama, mostly in the form of intentional romance and shipping trolling and is something that comes again and again in Okada related works, particularly her originals. Miuna barely passes the Bechdel test (if it wasn't for her sea heritage, she would have failed it) and Sayu utterly fails it. Heck, even Chisaki is barely passing it with her constant brooding and self-pity over her crush over Hikari who she still can't get over, whilst good-guy Tsugumu is forever waiting.

This is why I tend to dislike it when romance is a dominating theme in anime because they are very much all in this reign. Quality male targeted romance series (shojo is a bit more common, though it's largely in manga) like your True Tears, efs and White Album 2's (THANKYOU WHITE ALBUM 2) come once in a blue moon and at this point I'm convinced that PA Works x Okada in their work on True Tears was a half fluke and half Mr. Nishimura having a firm reign over Okada. Unfortunately, NagiAsu romance does not fall into this exception and if the series continues on this path, I will be very disappointed.

[deadite]

That's pure speculation though. I hardly see Nagi Asu as pandering to anything. This moe phobia has to stop. Whatever though, it's all opinions and I am hardly annoyed at this show like you obviously. While this show does have moe-buriki art style, I could hardly say the tone of the show fits any kind of moe anime. I still hold the opinion this show is high calibur despite how some of you have come to despise it . It's the do to anime I wait for every week. It has probably the best cliffhangers I've seen in an anime for a while. I hardly feel anything in the show deserves the derision you give it. It's just your point of view and I'm glad I still get to enjoy with some people. I'm sorry you guys no longer enjoy where the show is headed.