GATE - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Skaddix]

actually Zorzal gave Pina and his Brother way more rope then I thought he would.

[francescoG1]

Originally Posted by Top Sergeant

Indeed. Once the mages understand how modern technology works, then those helicopters and tanks can be stopped. Just magically transmute "coolant fluid" into "mud" and they stop moving.

I never seen or read about chemical transmutation. The human magic seems based on telekinesis and the range seems limited.

Lelei's magic is based on the hydrogen-oxygen chemical reaction obtained by concentration and compression of these elements present in the air with telekinesis. Also uses Munroe effect (an RPG spell )

Elf and other "bestial" races use spirit magic (resembles summoning spells) who based on direct natural phenomenon manipulation. The range seems limited....

I think humans magicians born (only who born in this world) with these skills. Is the only explanation that makes sense (the human race is the youngest) about why magic is rare.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Keep in mind that in most cultures, sex is never explicitly mentioned. It is only implied. Also, there is very little laws about marriage in GATE, I would not be surprised if it can be nothing more than a simple register for tax purposes. Local cultures decide what is or isn't marriage, but it is pretty clear that the husband is suppose to be aware of it. One way or another Lelei was trying to keep her alleged marriage to Itami hidden from him, for as long as possible.

Again, that's assuming that she realized his ignorance to the rules. She may have kept quiet in order to try to get him to finish the ceremony, or she may have believed that something as obvious as cohabitation equaling marriage would go without saying and assumed that he realized. But as they say in America, ignorance of the law does not make the law unbinding. If the local law views them to be legally married, then he'll have trouble getting out of it. Lelei might get in some trouble for keeping quiet and letting him go through the wedding without knowledge, but even if Itami's allowed to void the marriage there will be plenty of people who will look down on him and by association the "Green People" for having no respect for their traditions and toying with the heart of an innocent maiden. In almost any culture I know, toying with and breaking a maiden's heart is viewed as a terrible cruelty, and makes the culprit look like a cad even if he had no idea. This could easily have damaging repercussions on public opinion and relations, so Itami and Sugawara both need to tread very carefully. In ancient times, international relations have been forged and shattered on account of such things. Anyway, as I said before I was sort of hoping for such a culture screwup at some point. This is an amusing and potentially volatile aspect of interaction between a "modern" culture and an "ancient" one. And we already have been shown that their rules about romance are different, from the fact that a twelve-year-old girl's affections are considered serious and romance is expected.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

If the local law views them to be legally married, then he'll have trouble getting out of it.

You seem to not understand how customs work. There isn't some federal law in GATE that decide who is and isn't married. There is no one to enforce it. The only way for two people to get married, assuming this isn't a commercial transaction in disguise, is if both sides know they are married. Those who are of nobility and has inheritable wealth and titles obviously had to have legal rights in marriage, but Lelei is a nomad and there is no such thing for her culture.

Guess we got a real life cultural sock here. Did you assume marriages are government controlled in GATE like they are in real life? Things change, things didn't use to work that way. No one officially sanctioned Lelei's marriage to Itami, it is literally just her word on the matter. People assumed that they already had sex, because they didn't imagine why she would say such a thing. Lelei is faking it to get what she wants, because she knows she can get away with it.

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by francescoG1

I never seen or read about chemical transmutation. The human magic seems based on telekinesis and the range seems limited.

That's just the first thing that came to mind. Other methods could be:

-Decharging or reversing the poles of electrical systems
-Combusting gunpowder inside the cartridges in magazines / rounds in ammo racks
-Creating / throwing large volumes of water in front of jet and turbine helicopter engine intakes

And doubtless many other means. How will they be able to do it? I have no idea, I'm not a wizard. But these listed are simple in effect. Perhaps taking less power or ability than, say, a force field strong enough to withstand a howitzer or tank round.

[Yan3242]

Nice episode, yay for lelei my fav character in gate

Dear zorzal, after all those slaughter from season 1 episode 1, dragon killing, got ufc'ed by military hardcore girl and your town meeting hall got bombed in a mere second, you want war with them? Have fun zorzal Yeah all these just a plan from our crazy wabbit but still, how dumb can one person be.

Poor pina, the empire might as well be flatten into ground and be rebuilt as different name. Seriously, ever since season 1 i never see/hear anything good everytime i heard a word "empire"

And doubtless many other means. How will they be able to do it? I have no idea, I'm not a wizard. But these listed are simple in effect. Perhaps taking less power or ability than, say, a force field strong enough to withstand a howitzer or tank round.

Are the mages in gate is like avatar? Where they can shape and mold element like they want? (Let say if the mage study is fire for example) Or is it like typical mages in mmorpg where you cast fireball, Magic missile stuff? If it like avatar, handling vehicles should be easy, a hard wind turbulence should disturb the heli balance, and for ground vehicle, a quick ground spike could roll the tank and apc like. as for infantry, a magic based artillery like weapon could do the trick or a strong gust of wind.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

You seem to not understand how customs work. There isn't some federal law in GATE that decide who is and isn't married. There is no one to enforce it. The only way for two people to get married, assuming this isn't a commercial transaction in disguise, is if both sides know they are married. Those who are of nobility and has inheritable wealth and titles obviously had to have legal rights in marriage, but Lelei is a nomad and there is no such thing for her culture.

Guess we got a real life cultural sock here. Did you assume marriages are government controlled in GATE like they are in real life? Things change, things didn't use to work that way. No one officially sanctioned Lelei's marriage to Itami, it is literally just her word on the matter. People assumed that they already had sex, because they didn't imagine why she would say such a thing. Lelei is faking it to get what she wants, because she knows she can get away with it.

I was talking about "local law" as in the sort of unwritten but customary law you'll find in a culture, where everyone views a particular issue to hold a particular meaning, and a person rejecting that meaning is viewed in a very negative light, such as a "married" man being with another woman and everyone declaring it either bigamy or adultery. If you think he'd be off the hook just because there isn't a contract you're dead wrong there. He admits to sleeping together three times, and generally from what works I've seen plenty of judges would declare what I said earlier, ignorance is no excuse. He went through the ceremony, and if common customary law says he's married then many local judges would consider mutual confirmation of the act taking place as proof of marriage. They don't both have to have intended marriage for the customary view to hold. That idea that you don't need to be responsible for an act if you didn't mean it that way is a more modern concept and was viewed very negatively by many cultures in the past. If the question of his marriage were to have a part in any manner of legal case, he'd most likely be considered Lelei's husband once both admitted to having "competed" the "ceremony".

And again, as others have said, you're reading too much into it when you assume that sex has to have been involved for it to be considered a "marriage". Plenty of civilizations had rules just as obscure to define marriage. There is certainly precedent for a civilization deeming simple cohabitation as proof of marriage. And this doesn't necessarily mean that the culture assumes they'd had sex. There really are cases where actions as crazy as this constitute marriage without any concern for actual sexual intercourse, and the words used are not generally used to describe sex from all cases I've seen, so there really isn't all that much reason to assume that it's a misinterpretation.

Again, it may be the case that she's deliberately misinterpreting things, or that she misunderstood, but unless the novels said otherwise we have been given no information to contradict the assumption that the customs of the Empire really would declare Itami married and that he would be seen like this by anyone who knew that he'd committed the requisite action. I'd say it's just as likely that Lelei either assumed he'd realize the significance of sharing a room or chose not to say anything until she felt a need to stake her claim. Perhaps she was considerate enough at first to let him go on account of his foreign upbringing, but once it looked like he could be taken from her she decided that she'd rather assert her customarily rightful place than lose him.

[DemonneoPT]

Loved that explanation for the origin of races in the GATE world. I wonder if the ability of using magic by some humans is the result of interbreeding with other humanoid races. There is a chance that Lelei is not 100% human.
I hope they will explain more stuff regarding the origins of that world. Before Hardy opening the GATE, what were the original races there? Only Gods? xD

The battle between the sisters was nice. Arpeggio surprised me. I thought she was a lot weaker taken in account all her negativism about herself..lol

[Yan3242]

the battle between the sisters was nice. Arpeggio surprised me. I thought she was a lot weaker taken in account all her negativism about herself..lol

Either that or lelei didnt go all out, the fight after all is not about killing, just a quarrel between sister and whoever break the barrier first.

the barrier doesnt look that strong and lelei magic manage to penetrate a dragon skin where a normal magic is useless against it, if she use let say that "unlimited blade work" magic from the dragon arc, it could kill her sister in instant

Also i dont know if anyone notice this but i found arpeggio magic style is so similar with tohsaka rin from fate series. Both are expensive (minerals and jewels), both use the object as conduit and throw it to the enemy, both has little sister who has more potential than the older sister and both person seems in pain wherever they start talking how expensive it is

[Brother Coa]

Originally Posted by Top Sergeant

That's just the first thing that came to mind. Other methods could be:

-Decharging or reversing the poles of electrical systems
-Combusting gunpowder inside the cartridges in magazines / rounds in ammo racks
-Creating / throwing large volumes of water in front of jet and turbine helicopter engine intakes

And doubtless many other means. How will they be able to do it? I have no idea, I'm not a wizard. But these listed are simple in effect. Perhaps taking less power or ability than, say, a force field strong enough to withstand a howitzer or tank round.

These are all nice ideas, but everything that have been shown us thus far is that mages are very underpowered when pit against modern armaments.

Firstly mages are rare, they are born like one. Meaning that you cannot train one unlike us who can train as much soldiers as we want and built as much machines as we can. Not to mention that you need years to properly train one, unlike soldier and building a tank.

Secondly, for mages to be effective they must know how our machines work exactly. And that knowledge is very limited. Even Lelei who has basic knowledge still does not know how everything exactly work. Add to that that modern warfare is fast strike assaults with combined weapons warfare. Meaning that even if mage concetratr on aircraft he is on danger being targeted by either a tank or an infantry soldier.

And finally, and the most importantly, not many mages will fight against SDF. Moreover it's more likely that they will join them instead. That leaves remaining mages fighting both SDF and mages.

All in all, everything I said can be summed up in one sentence : 'They can have as much their profesionally trained spartan style warriors as they want, we will just drown them in conscripts and overwhelming firepower.'

[BladeMancer]

Spoiler for Spoils:

Zorzal declared war. This is what happened a day after

[Yan3242]

^
How about that lightning attack that was done by tuka from the dragon arc, can mage do that? Or is it strictly elves only?

Tuka cast it pretty fast (almost instant cast in fact), and since its lightning its pretty much wreck havoc against sdf who mostly use electronics, flying vehicle obviously got struck, ground vehicle and infantry will certainly get a deadly shock thanks to steel and triggering ammo and explosives.

[Brother Coa]

Yeah, that can wreck everyone.

But as we have seen it's one area limited only. Meaning even if that magic disable 1 part of an army the other several parts will take the caster down as soon as they see him.

Problem with modern army is that they strike fast and strong, and they always advance in several different formations. Meaning they are never grouped as a whole in one place.

And lightning strike has no answer to unseen artillery that can kill caster from 20km range.

[BWTraveller]

Whatever the case, I hope they find someone who's able to provide at least a little serious resistance. While I don't agree with statements I'd heard previously about this being all about how great the SDF is, it does get kind of boring to have an army that is absolutely unrivaled, an army that never has to worry because they know no one can do more than maybe one or two casualties, and even those not fatal.

[Brother Coa]

Well this is after all modern age army vs. medieval age one. In that kind of contest there is no competition.

From what we have seen so far the Empire is pretty much only political power strong enough to oppose them. Everyone else are either vassal states ( much more weaker then Empire ) and city states. Elves and Dark Elves live in woods and do not get involved into affairs of others, while I do not know much about the Orcs it seems that they are not important factor as they were just mentioned but not shown.

The only real threat to SDF comes from domestic monsters like fire dragon. But as we have seen they can take care of those once they get serious.

So yeah, I get your point. But this show is more about meting with new cultures and challenges that SDF face than real war. For as strong as modern army is it is held back by various politics and modern laws, never-mind civilian movements aimed directly against any kind of military activity. So it's not completely one-sided as SDF cannot attack in full force since their own countrymen restrict them from doing that. While on the other hand Empire can go and commit genocide and celebrate it as a victory.

[Harbinger]

Since we learned that the Gate may eventually close, I'm guessing that the Anime (or the original material) will end with the Gate closing.

I very much suspect that our MC will end up staying behind with his harem :P

It's interesting though. Other races came through that Gate so additional "content" could be about "maybe" visiting those areas if the Gate links to those world. I doubt it would happen with our MC still alive since it seems to happen once every few dozen thousand years or so.

*** TOTALLY off-topic***

If you were a citizen in that world (in our world) and you were given the opportunity to either continue your everyday life or travel into that whole new world (forever), which one would you pick? Would you be able to leave everything behind?

[mysterious]

So did Pina just dodged the horse carriage after saying she would not move and prepare to lay down her life for the empire?

I guess I should at least commend her on her sense of duty to protect her country, even though the special area region could do nicely without her country oppression.

Leilei laying claim on Itami is the high light of this episode for me. All is fair in love and war, sail forth my ship! I am fine with Rory on board too though.

[rladls2121]

About Pina dodging the horse no, from what I see Pina's step brother just ride the horse to evade Pina without her moving aside.

So the one who sent an assassin to kill Lelei was Zorzal?

Empire, the father is in serious condition, each sibling are taking different paths, and just because what is happening, many people will die.

[Pen3]

Originally Posted by Yan3242

Either that or lelei didnt go all out, the fight after all is not about killing, just a quarrel between sister and whoever break the barrier first.

the barrier doesnt look that strong and lelei magic manage to penetrate a dragon skin where a normal magic is useless against it, if she use let say that "unlimited blade work" magic from the dragon arc, it could kill her sister in instant

When did this happen? If her magic can penetrate a dragon then why is she even scared of it? I thought she used the elven swords to penetrate the dragon and one of the dark elves also stabbed right through the dragons skin with one of the swords in the cave. She saw him do it and pretty much copied him with just magic and more swords. Unless you are talking about another scene that i completely forgot, it does seem that her sister is pretty strong. She probably won some of the battles or else why would she challenge her sister and blow all her money for nothing.

[BladeMancer]

Originally Posted by Yan3242

^
How about that lightning attack that was done by tuka from the dragon arc, can mage do that? Or is it strictly elves only?

Tuka cast it pretty fast (almost instant cast in fact), and since its lightning its pretty much wreck havoc against sdf who mostly use electronics, flying vehicle obviously got struck, ground vehicle and infantry will certainly get a deadly shock thanks to steel and triggering ammo and explosives.

Lightning can be redirected through proper conductive material and it didn't kill the dragon. A nuke could probably disintegrate the red dragon if a panzerfaust could tear limbs of it, we are much more powerful then the people there. The fact the the JSDF is using old weapons is even more insulting