AnimeSuki Forums

dj_tjerk · 2009-03-31, 12:52

Did you even look at my explanation? Just change the 11 to the amount of text layers you have.

pichu · 2009-03-31, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj_tjerk

Anyway, as I said, this is mostly a hackjob. If I would know how to handle pichu's script (fixed length syllable animators?), then it'd take me about as long as it did here.

Nope. What's so hard is to set up a Pointer expression control or a pointer control in Particular's Position XY property with two keyframes: 0,50 and 100,50, and a simple expression:

Code:

value + transform.position

Then use this (in my newest form) in the particles layer comments:

Code:

<layer order="10">
     <module name="position">
          <add name="effect('Particular')('Position XY')" layer="Romaji" />
     </module>
</layer>

This is like 1 minute job to apply for all of the particles?

dj_tjerk · 2009-03-31, 16:35

Exactly what I meant? It took me about 1 minute to do what I did in that BB kara. Just saying that because I don't know how to use YOUR script, it would take me much longer.

pichu · 2009-03-31, 16:38

Well I like it intuitively, like how I can see the stuff without having the need to assigning values manually.

Unfortunately, I still don't really like this method I've been thinking. It's been a lot easier than before and what was done previously, but it still has a deep learning curve.

EDIT: the syllable per layer, FIXED timing concept is really difficult to make it easy to use. Currently, i'm using markers to designate as fixed timing.

For example. I have never documented this part, I think, but I demonstrated in the syllables falling (they're constant times).

G.U.N.D.A.M · 2009-04-01, 07:22

dj_tjerk, I don't get errors anymore (yeah I was stupid enough not to read your explanation) but for some reason there aren't any particles emitted
so I tried to do it using Pichu's script but I got the same problem...
there aren't any particles emitted...

here is the project file
CLICK HERE

dj_tjerk · 2009-04-01, 12:59

I don't have CS3, so I can't send back a project file.

Anyway, you misnamed "intro position" (apparently it's case sensitive; any word on this pichu?)

correct code for KRK:

Code:

add( “romaji” )
.l( “romaji” )
.a( “scale”, true )
.a( “fill”, true )
.a( “tracking” )
.a( “in out” )

add( ‘Particular’ )
.l( ‘romaji’ )
.p( ‘effect(“Intro Position”)(”Point”)’ )
.p( “effect.Position” , {syl:true, pos:”romaji”} )

Also, you should apply this expression to the "Position XY" Property of the Particular effect (you had something really weird there).

Code:

effect("Position")("Point") + effect("Intro Position")("Point")

Particles are constantly being emitted this way, might not really be what you want; I don't know how to make pichu's script write to a slider control what syllable is being sung, because then you can apply something like this to the particles/sec property:

Code:

part = 0;
if (effect("Position")("Point").valueAtTime(time - 0.05)[0] != effect("Position")("Point")[0] ) {
	part = 200;
}
part

FYI, I changed the keyframes of the Position point control in the "romaji" layer so I could make use of the code above. More or less a hackjob though.

G.U.N.D.A.M · 2009-04-01, 15:52

dj_tjerk, it still doesn't work!
I changed everything that was named "Intro Position" to "intro position" and I did the expression you gave me with the correct cases

here's what changed, the particles are now emitted for the intro effect but when the main effect starts they disappear...
I tried adding many different expressions
one of them worked but it was on the middle of the screen on the y axis and seriously messed up on the x axis...

I tried

Code:

thisComp.layer("romaji").transform.position + value

I also tried what dj_tjerk said

I tried adding other expressions I can't remember but everything was a total PHAIL

dj_tjerk · 2009-04-01, 16:07

Do you have ANY idea what that expression does? Also, did you add markers for the particular layer? I don't know if you have to do that, but I did. If that doesn't work, either install CS4 or again give me your project file :P (Don't you have IRC? This slowchat is slow)

crash-kun · 2009-04-02, 01:25

G.U.N.D.A.M: There are a few problems with your setup.

1: As dj_tjerk suspected you need to put markers on the Particular template layer as well.

2: What dj_tjerk said about changing "intro position" to "Intro Position" in the KRK layer is also correct.

3: You are moving the transform position of the Solid with Particular on it, not the PositionXY of the Emitter in Particular, so you should take the expression that is on the transform position property and move it to the PositionXY property of Particular. You will then find that Particular is emitting particles they are just off the screen.

One problem that you will hit once you change these settings is that Particular is always emitting particles. So what you can do is make some keyframes that will get animated as a syllable effect for the Particles/sec property. Here is a copy if your aep that does what I think you want. You may of course have to fine tune some of the settings to get it to emit the amount of particles that you want, or whatever else you feel like changing. If you do in fact want it to emit particles all the time then simply delete the keyframes in the Particles/sec property and delete the corresponding line in the KRK layer.

dj_tjerk · 2009-04-02, 07:01

We resolved the problem on IRC yesterday crash :P I didn't remember I changed the transform properties, so yeh.. point 3.

crash-kun · 2009-04-02, 21:15

Oh, Very nice then

Zwill · 2009-04-03, 13:18

Hi!

First of all I'd like to thank pichu for his script and crash for the tutorials.
I had an urge to try it, becouse it looked really useable and I managed to understand it, well I think... I did everything like crash said in the tutorial, but after I runned the script there was a strange thingy. There are some syllables that make the same effect twice. Its kinda ugly and annoying and I dont know what couses it and how it can be fixed. Project file can be found here, so if you can please explain how can I fix this. I'm still just experimenting with it, but it would be nice, if I could use this script as well^^

crash-kun · 2009-04-03, 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwill

There are some syllables that make the same effect twice. Its kinda ugly and annoying and I dont know what couses it and how it can be fixed.

Yes thanks for pointing this out, I should have mentioned it in the tutorial, chances are I'll mention it in the debug tutorial. This happens when making the effect apply to the whole syllable at the same time (i.e. changing the Anchor Point Grouping from Character to Word) and there are pauses in the karaoke. The way to fix this problem is to find the range selectors that the script generates that are causing the problem, and turn them off (protip: use the Eyeball to turn the range selector off.) I have yet to inform pichu of this problem but he is probably already aware of it.

Zwill · 2009-04-03, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by crash-kun

The way to fix this problem is to find the range selectors that the script generates that are causing the problem, and turn them off (protip: use the Eyeball to turn the range selector off.) I have yet to inform pichu of this problem but he is probably already aware of it.

It worked perfectly ^_^ Thanks for helping me with it, problems solved. One more thing, I tried to use the scatter effect, but it doesn't seem to be working like the other effects after I generated the karaoke.

crash-kun · 2009-04-04, 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwill

One more thing, I tried to use the scatter effect, but it doesn't seem to be working like the other effects after I generated the karaoke.

Yes this happens because the effect is getting applied to the whole line and not just each syllable. What you have to do is make the script generate a different layer for each syllable. The way to do this is change the line:

Code:

.l( "style" )

on the template layers section of the KRK layer to:

Code:

.l( "style" , true )

This will have the script generate a different layer for each syllable.

pichu · 2009-04-04, 02:46

I thought I fixed the glitches......I just skipped anything with \k0... Is there a bug at my part? This happens on AE part when it rounds off incorrectly.

Wait , I know the issue... you have the keyframes too close to each other -- and AE thinks it's the same keyframe -- so it will try to push them before or after, thus making them jittered. Try to follow the following guidelines to avoid using close keyframes. (Also, use another key interpolation if you want to -- the square blocks or the "STOP" keyframe interpolations -- this will prevent close keyframes)

There are two modes in KRK:
Anchor group per character
Anchor group per word

Both work differently. One treated effects on the character, and one treated effects on the syllable. Hidden spacings will automatically get generated (autotrack to have 0-spacing) when you select 'word'.

From Range Selector => Advanced, You can also change 'based on' -- how range selectors work here.

There are three modes: Characters, Characters excluding spaces, and Word. All three types were done a bit differently, as the percentages differ in three cases. Word applies effects to the entire word (it's only useful for Anchor group per word). Characters apply to per character, and it won't affect the anchor group per word. (a little -- but not much)...

There are some tricks -- but it's for you to figure out... For instance, if you're working with scaling like the one in your karaoke, it's best to use Anchor group per Word.

I didn't bother implementing "Line", because I don't see a point ... Unless someone here can prove why based on line is important, I won't add this feature. As you know, this means the effect is applied to the overall line.

As for property effects (like scatter, etc), if you're doing per-line effects, you can't get those effects to overlap with each other. The best way is to make them syllable per line.

pichu · 2009-04-06, 07:38

I added three things to the script: (now marked as v0.56)

1. You can now type your codes in Layer comments
2. You can disable the template layer with .s('enabled',false)
3. You can assign generated layer to a layer property using:
.s( 'effect("Layer Control")("Layer")' , 'layer' , 'templateLayer2' ) [for example]

This should enable you to use Trapcode Form effects directly on the syllable (i.e. particles from the syllables). Hints: syllable per layer, you'll need to use some expression in time-remap. Enjoy in figuring out how to make this wonderful effect.

http://code.google.com/p/aftereffectskrk

.s = normally it allows you to set properties on any property in the template
.p = requires keyframes, so I couldn't add this feature to this method.

krisztian922 · 2009-04-07, 13:35

Thank you pichu for your script, finally I don't have to add most of effects to the syllable by myself.
I tried those tutorials what crash-kun did, but the second tutorial don't work well and I don't know why.; here's my project I did everything the way how crash did it , but the space among the syllable is pretty big ^^"

I counting on your help because it's a good script and I want to learn how to use well, and sorry for my english ^^'

crash-kun · 2009-04-08, 19:37

Sorry for the slow response I've been quite busy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by krisztian922

I tried those tutorials what crash-kun did, but the second tutorial don't work well and I don't know why.; here's my project I did everything the way how crash did it , but the space among the syllable is pretty big ^^"

The problem is you have the tracking animator based on Words and not Lines. Change that and your karaoke will work

crash-kun · 2009-04-09, 00:06

Heres a question. Is there a setting somewhere that adds workspace setup to saved files? I've noticed that sometimes when I open another's file it will change my setup and other times it wont. I have a very unique setup and its quite annoying to have to reset it all up because I open someone else's file to help them. I suppose I should make a preset for it but my question still stands.

2009-03-31, 16:38	Link #564
pichu Senior Member Fansubber Join Date: Jul 2004	Well I like it intuitively, like how I can see the stuff without having the need to assigning values manually. Unfortunately, I still don't really like this method I've been thinking. It's been a lot easier than before and what was done previously, but it still has a deep learning curve. EDIT: the syllable per layer, FIXED timing concept is really difficult to make it easy to use. Currently, i'm using markers to designate as fixed timing. For example. I have never documented this part, I think, but I demonstrated in the syllables falling (they're constant times). Last edited by pichu; 2009-03-31 at 16:54.

2009-04-01, 12:59	Link #566
dj_tjerk Ana-chan~ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Netherlands	I don't have CS3, so I can't send back a project file. Anyway, you misnamed "intro position" (apparently it's case sensitive; any word on this pichu?) correct code for KRK: Code: add( “romaji” ) .l( “romaji” ) .a( “scale”, true ) .a( “fill”, true ) .a( “tracking” ) .a( “in out” ) add( ‘Particular’ ) .l( ‘romaji’ ) .p( ‘effect(“Intro Position”)(”Point”)’ ) .p( “effect.Position” , {syl:true, pos:”romaji”} ) Also, you should apply this expression to the "Position XY" Property of the Particular effect (you had something really weird there). Code: effect("Position")("Point") + effect("Intro Position")("Point") Particles are constantly being emitted this way, might not really be what you want; I don't know how to make pichu's script write to a slider control what syllable is being sung, because then you can apply something like this to the particles/sec property: Code: part = 0; if (effect("Position")("Point").valueAtTime(time - 0.05)[0] != effect("Position")("Point")[0] ) { part = 200; } part FYI, I changed the keyframes of the Position point control in the "romaji" layer so I could make use of the code above. More or less a hackjob though.

2009-04-01, 15:52	Link #567
G.U.N.D.A.M Member Join Date: Feb 2006	dj_tjerk, it still doesn't work! I changed everything that was named "Intro Position" to "intro position" and I did the expression you gave me with the correct cases here's what changed, the particles are now emitted for the intro effect but when the main effect starts they disappear... I tried adding many different expressions one of them worked but it was on the middle of the screen on the y axis and seriously messed up on the x axis... I tried Code: thisComp.layer("romaji").transform.position + value I also tried what dj_tjerk said I tried adding other expressions I can't remember but everything was a total PHAIL

2009-04-02, 01:25	Link #569
crash-kun AFX nub Fansubber Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: California Age: 35	G.U.N.D.A.M: There are a few problems with your setup. 1: As dj_tjerk suspected you need to put markers on the Particular template layer as well. 2: What dj_tjerk said about changing "intro position" to "Intro Position" in the KRK layer is also correct. 3: You are moving the transform position of the Solid with Particular on it, not the PositionXY of the Emitter in Particular, so you should take the expression that is on the transform position property and move it to the PositionXY property of Particular. You will then find that Particular is emitting particles they are just off the screen. One problem that you will hit once you change these settings is that Particular is always emitting particles. So what you can do is make some keyframes that will get animated as a syllable effect for the Particles/sec property. Here is a copy if your aep that does what I think you want. You may of course have to fine tune some of the settings to get it to emit the amount of particles that you want, or whatever else you feel like changing. If you do in fact want it to emit particles all the time then simply delete the keyframes in the Particles/sec property and delete the corresponding line in the KRK layer. Last edited by crash-kun; 2009-04-02 at 02:30. Reason: Added the aep

2009-04-06, 07:38	Link #577
pichu Senior Member Fansubber Join Date: Jul 2004	I added three things to the script: (now marked as v0.56) 1. You can now type your codes in Layer comments 2. You can disable the template layer with .s('enabled',false) 3. You can assign generated layer to a layer property using: .s( 'effect("Layer Control")("Layer")' , 'layer' , 'templateLayer2' ) [for example] This should enable you to use Trapcode Form effects directly on the syllable (i.e. particles from the syllables). Hints: syllable per layer, you'll need to use some expression in time-remap. Enjoy in figuring out how to make this wonderful effect. http://code.google.com/p/aftereffectskrk .s = normally it allows you to set properties on any property in the template .p = requires keyframes, so I couldn't add this feature to this method. Last edited by pichu; 2009-04-06 at 13:34.

2009-03-31, 12:52	Link #561
dj_tjerk Ana-chan~ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Netherlands	Did you even look at my explanation? Just change the 11 to the amount of text layers you have.

2009-03-31, 16:35	Link #563
dj_tjerk Ana-chan~ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Netherlands	Exactly what I meant? It took me about 1 minute to do what I did in that BB kara. Just saying that because I don't know how to use YOUR script, it would take me much longer.

2009-04-01, 07:22	Link #565
G.U.N.D.A.M Member Join Date: Feb 2006	dj_tjerk, I don't get errors anymore (yeah I was stupid enough not to read your explanation) but for some reason there aren't any particles emitted so I tried to do it using Pichu's script but I got the same problem... there aren't any particles emitted... here is the project file CLICK HERE

2009-04-01, 16:07	Link #568
dj_tjerk Ana-chan~ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Netherlands	Do you have ANY idea what that expression does? Also, did you add markers for the particular layer? I don't know if you have to do that, but I did. If that doesn't work, either install CS4 or again give me your project file :P (Don't you have IRC? This slowchat is slow)

2009-04-02, 07:01	Link #570
dj_tjerk Ana-chan~ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Netherlands	We resolved the problem on IRC yesterday crash :P I didn't remember I changed the transform properties, so yeh.. point 3.

2009-04-02, 21:15	Link #571
crash-kun AFX nub Fansubber Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: California Age: 35	Oh, Very nice then

2009-04-03, 13:18	Link #572
Zwill Young Padawan Fansubber Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Hungary Age: 36	Hi! First of all I'd like to thank pichu for his script and crash for the tutorials. I had an urge to try it, becouse it looked really useable and I managed to understand it, well I think... I did everything like crash said in the tutorial, but after I runned the script there was a strange thingy. There are some syllables that make the same effect twice. Its kinda ugly and annoying and I dont know what couses it and how it can be fixed. Project file can be found here, so if you can please explain how can I fix this. I'm still just experimenting with it, but it would be nice, if I could use this script as well^^

2009-04-04, 02:46	Link #576
pichu Senior Member Fansubber Join Date: Jul 2004	I thought I fixed the glitches......I just skipped anything with \k0... Is there a bug at my part? This happens on AE part when it rounds off incorrectly. Wait , I know the issue... you have the keyframes too close to each other -- and AE thinks it's the same keyframe -- so it will try to push them before or after, thus making them jittered. Try to follow the following guidelines to avoid using close keyframes. (Also, use another key interpolation if you want to -- the square blocks or the "STOP" keyframe interpolations -- this will prevent close keyframes) There are two modes in KRK: Anchor group per character Anchor group per word Both work differently. One treated effects on the character, and one treated effects on the syllable. Hidden spacings will automatically get generated (autotrack to have 0-spacing) when you select 'word'. From Range Selector => Advanced, You can also change 'based on' -- how range selectors work here. There are three modes: Characters, Characters excluding spaces, and Word. All three types were done a bit differently, as the percentages differ in three cases. Word applies effects to the entire word (it's only useful for Anchor group per word). Characters apply to per character, and it won't affect the anchor group per word. (a little -- but not much)... There are some tricks -- but it's for you to figure out... For instance, if you're working with scaling like the one in your karaoke, it's best to use Anchor group per Word. I didn't bother implementing "Line", because I don't see a point ... Unless someone here can prove why based on line is important, I won't add this feature. As you know, this means the effect is applied to the overall line. As for property effects (like scatter, etc), if you're doing per-line effects, you can't get those effects to overlap with each other. The best way is to make them syllable per line.

2009-04-07, 13:35	Link #578
krisztian922 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Budapest...in Hungary	Thank you pichu for your script, finally I don't have to add most of effects to the syllable by myself. I tried those tutorials what crash-kun did, but the second tutorial don't work well and I don't know why.; here's my project I did everything the way how crash did it , but the space among the syllable is pretty big ^^" I counting on your help because it's a good script and I want to learn how to use well, and sorry for my english ^^' Last edited by krisztian922; 2009-04-07 at 17:30.

2009-04-09, 00:06	Link #580
crash-kun AFX nub Fansubber Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: California Age: 35	Heres a question. Is there a setting somewhere that adds workspace setup to saved files? I've noticed that sometimes when I open another's file it will change my setup and other times it wont. I have a very unique setup and its quite annoying to have to reset it all up because I open someone else's file to help them. I suppose I should make a preset for it but my question still stands.