Code Geass R2 - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[scifijimmy]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Neither Nunnally or any of the BKs are dumb... If people in teh audience can be fooled by Schneizel before last episode when we learned what he was going to do (and I wasn't the only one. Even some that still labeled him evil had a few doubts too) then saying the CHARACTERS that know MUCH less than we do are dumb, then that is just a fallacy. If we were them with the info they have, then we would be doing the same thing.

Okay, if Nunnally and the Black Knights are not stupid characters then why don't they ask to see Odysseus and the rest of ex-nobility of Britannia. Yeah, they'll be "All Hail, Lelouch" still, but it make the point that Schneizel attempted to limit the death toll.

Also have to say that we've lost the best candidate for Britannia throne. Yes, Cornelia isn't perfect, but she was looking better after realizing Schneizel's plans, and what Lelouch has done so far.

On Lelouch, on much farther downhill do they intend to take him. Wouldn't it have been much simpler to play out the Good Guy image of the Emperor of Justice, Estanblisher of Constituional Monarchy than the Tyrannical despot. I REALLY don't understand why the Black Knights are siding with Schneizel at all. Even with Xingke's brilliance in that doesn't want to fight Damocles, I don't see why they don't let Lelouch and Schneizel fight it out while their on the sidelines.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Diedrupo

People have already screamed in obsurdity. Look at all the people who accused Sunrise of trolling them because of what happened in ep 20/21. Also, how would it contradict everything? Lelouch's plan isn't that much different than Schneizel's, Schneizel just has a more disturbing/dark/villainous way of going about doing it. And Schneizel was pretty harmless until Sunrise decided to do a 180 in his character/personality just for the sake of still having a villain at the end.

Diedurop, Schneizel's got villain stamped on his forehead as far back as when he was first introduced from my perspective. As for Lelouch's plan, we'll just see what it is already before we go making comparisons, cause that just seems a little unfair wouldn't you say? Anyway, far as my perspective has gone the plots been pretty solid in terms of progression for me anyway, there were hints throughout the series for just about everything so it really wasn't done out of sequence, to me anyway <_<

[Freya]

What did live geass give suzaku btw?

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by scifijimmy

Okay, if Nunnally and the Black Knights are not stupid characters then why don't they ask to see Odysseus and the rest of ex-nobility of Britannia. Yeah, they'll be "All Hail, Lelouch" still, but it make the point that Schneizel attempted to limit the death toll.

Also have to say that we've lost the best candidate for Britannia throne. Yes, Cornelia isn't perfect, but she was looking better after realizing Schneizel's plans, and what Lelouch has done so far.

On Lelouch, on much farther downhill do they intend to take him. Wouldn't it have been much simpler to play out the Good Guy image of the Emperor of Justice, Estanblisher of Constituional Monarchy than the Tyrannical despot. I REALLY don't understand why the Black Knights are siding with Schneizel at all. Even with Xingke's brilliance in that doesn't want to fight Damocles, I don't see why they don't let Lelouch and Schneizel fight it out while their on the sidelines.

Because they know Schenizel won't care who gets in his way and he will just spam FLEIA killing off... well, everyone, especially their representatives. They need to keep him close to at least keep an eye on him after all. And Schenizel DOES think his idea is better than Lelouch's (he really has this thing about wanting to REALLY crush Lelouch for some reason.... Did Lelouch strike a nerve with him before all this?)

[El_Lazy_Mexican]

Originally Posted by Orga777

But Schneizel will just snap fingers on both hands and produce a whole bunch of turrets, ending Suzaku. Schneizel is HAX like that you see.

A whole bunch of turrets that are lined up and firing in one direction while suzaku runs the wall and kicks a few killing a few traitors like Deithart and Shcneizels yaoi bud Kanon

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Because they know Schenizel won't care who gets in his way and he will just spam FLEIA killing off... well, everyone, especially their representatives. They need to keep him close to at least keep an eye on him after all. And Schenizel DOES think his idea is better than Lelouch's (he really has this thing about wanting to REALLY crush Lelouch for some reason.... Did Lelouch strike a nerve with him before all this?)

Lelouch was ten years old and younger back then, I'm curious as to see how much of a nerve he could have struck at that time if that was the case... personally, I think its just his desire to manipulate people around him by setting them against Lelouch, while at the same time appraising Lelouch as the only likely threat to his plans remaining, I would imagine <_<

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by El_Lazy_Mexican

A whole bunch of turrets that are lined up and firing in one direction while suzaku runs the wall and kicks a few killing a few traitors like Deithart and Shcneizels yaoi bud Kanon

Nonsense. The room would be filled with them. Suzaku will be all "Oh Crap! He is too HAX for me!!!" And then he is filled with lead.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

He was ten years old back then, I'm curious as to how much of a nerve he could have struck if that was the case... <_<

Which is why I await for his motivation for all this. He just doesn't like Lelouch at all... he has this strange obsession with wanting to crush him no matter what from what I see. There is something there and there is a reason for it. I just don't know what... I really hope they explore that...

[El_Lazy_Mexican]

Or he can just run away like he did in Turn 20 against Bismark and come back in with Albion and yell "ITS DEMOCRACY TIME B****!!"

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Diedurop, Schneizel's got villain stamped on his forehead as far back as when he was first introduced from my perspective. As for Lelouch's plan, we'll just see what it is already before we go making comparisons, cause that just seems a little unfair wouldn't you say? <_<

Double-eye geass has to play a part in the win though...It better...

As for Schnizzle it's clear he was gonna be an antagonist...I mean villain is a lose word on this show...Do you think Scnnizzle is deserving of the endboss status though...Over Charles? Over V.V.? Over Suzaku? I mean, (loling in my head) who the F is Schineizel?? He's just some dude that kicks his little brother's a$$ in chess when the plot needs to remind you because of his lack of screentime ...

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Double-eye geass has to play a part in the win though...It better...

As for Schnizzle it's clear he was gonna be an antagonist...I mean villain is a lose word on this show...Do you think Scnnizzle is deserving of the endboss status though...Over Charles? Over V.V.? Over Suzaku? I mean, (loling in my head) who the F is Schineizel?? He's just some dude that kicks his little brother's a$$ in chess when the plot needs to remind you because of his lack of screentime ...

Schneizel has been one step ahead of everyone in this entire series man... Even his father.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Double-eye geass has to play a part in the win though...It better...

As for Schnizzle it's clear he was gonna be an antagonist...I mean villain is a lose word on this show...Do you think Scnnizzle is deserving of the endboss status though...Over Charles? Over V.V.? Over Suzaku? I mean, (loling in my head) who the F is Schineizel?? He's just some dude that kicks his little brother's a$$ in chess when the plot needs to remind you because of his lack of screentime ...

I think he's doing all right in terms of serving as the end-boss, he demonstrates a stronger streak of ruthlessness that even Charles tried to counteract for somewhat. As for V.V, well, he never had much ambition to begin with other then being with his brother so I would say most definitely not. And Suzaku, pfft, he's been a tool for everyone so long its kind of hard to imagine him as a serious contender anymore. But, at least he's come under the vision of a man we can say is a leading character in this series, so all the best for him to stick with what he does best now and just continue to follow

[Kaioshin Sama]

Ahem. Minor update. The Geass Corellative website has been updated and Cornelia is still listed as alive while Sayoko has moved over to the Britannia faction. Though you can't really trust that thing anymore.....

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Ahem. Minor update. The Geass Corellative website has been updated and Cornelia is still listed as alive while Sayoko has moved over to the Britannia faction. Though you can't really trust that thing anymore.....

Hmm wasn't it stated that the website isn't even run by Code Geass but by someone else?

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Ahem. Minor update. The Geass Corellative website has been updated and Cornelia is still listed as alive while Sayoko has moved over to the Britannia faction. Though you can't really trust that thing anymore.....

Second that, well who knows really. I certainly don't. Once upon a time all the bomb victims were listed as missing, instead of even just Nunnally and Sayako, before being changed to being dead. So yeah, I think we should take it for a grain of salt personally

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Schneizel has been one step ahead of everyone in this entire series man... Even his father.

That's what I'm saying...He's been a step ahead because he's been a step ahead...He hasn't the depth of character to take on that mantle IMO...Charles despite his lack of screentime atleast had this bigger than life presence and Lulu enternal ire to validate his endboss status...The plot just lets Schnizzle be this and be that, but where was the depth in his character to suggest this? That was the problem I KNEW I was gonna have with him once his true nature was revealed...I mean 2 from the last ever ep is a tuff spot to have me eat all this Schnizel deep character $hit...I give him his props but Charles or Suzaku endboss would have been more emotionally gratifying for me and for the story I suspect...

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

That's what I'm saying...He's been a step ahead because he's been a step ahead...He hasn't the depth of character to take on that mantle IMO...Charles despite his lack of screentime atleast had this bigger than life presence and Lulu enternal ire to validate his endboss status...The plot just lets Schnizzle be this and be that, but where was the depth in his character to suggest this? That was the problem I KNEW I was gonna have with him once his true nature was revealed...I mean 2 from the last ever ep is a tuff spot to have me eat all this Schnizel deep character $hit...I give him his props but Charles or Suzaku endboss would have been more emotionally gratifying for me and for the story I suspect...

I am not as gloomy about this as you I guess. Schneizel makes for a much better end boss than Charles. Why? Because unlike Charles, Schenizel knows his brother perfectly. Charles never understood any of his kids. He was too busy messing around with Geass to care. Schenizel and Lelouch understand each other and make for a more epic final battle because of it.

[Utau]

Figures. No one has started a 'dead' or 'alive' faction for Cornelia

With the gunshots she received who knows if she's still alive. Next episode you see her crawling up to Nanali and telling her the truth about Schnizzel's evacuation procedure at Pendragon.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Orga777

I am not as gloomy about this as you I guess. Schneizel makes for a much better end boss than Charles. Why? Because unlike Charles, Schenizel knows his brother perfectly. Charles never understood any of his kids. He was too busy messing around with Geass to care. Schenizel and Lelouch understand each other and make for a more epic final battle because of it.

I can accept your reasoning, it's not bad at all...My point remains though...WHy do you think they have this dynamic connection when the show itself hasn't really gone into much depth about Lulu and Schnizel? I can't remember any significant flashback eps, or episodes that explicitly examine there relationship beyond a superficial whim of Schnizel is l33t because he's l33t...Yeah he beats Lulu in chess all the time (An important expressionist point I know) but his relationship with Charles always seemed more epic and gratifying...The hatred, the lack of answers, Charles' pure coldness then later this jaded acceptance of his son's achivement...I was all into his final battle with Charles (Despite Lulu's Mom being a complete idiot in that episode)...This battle was cool to some extent but ultimately Schnizel feels like leftover villain for me...The villains I cared about are all dead...Don't even get me started on the KoR's and the invisible ink they've written on this entire series...


BTW I'm not gloomy, CG has turned out kinda like I feard though...I had somewhat alluded to this ever since ep 25-26 of last season...I don't examine R2 too bad...Hell I've never given an ep under a 6 or a 5 I think...

[scifijimmy]

Looking at the correlative chart, it mentions something about Nunnally and Sayoko. Can someone translate? Also why is Diethard still labelled under the Black Knights? Finally, if Pendragon was "nuked' with everyone in it, why aren't Odysseus, Guinevere, and Carline marked as dead?