Spice and Wolf II - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll

[MeoTwister5]

Melts away the cold icy bits of my heart, it does.

[Filozof]

Originally Posted by cicero

Ugh. For a person who theoretically hasn't done anything wrong, Amarti sure is starting to look more and more like an ass. And Mark's comment about not being able to buy love with money feels like a dig at Amarti, since that's basically what Amarti is trying to do. But I might be overthinking it.

Also, I have the strong suspicion that the person who bought pyrite on credit off of Diane was Amarti himself, to deprive Lawrence of that source of pyrite. (For one thing, Lawrence himself thinks of it, which is why he keeps asking Diane who it is. And the feathers Horo is wearing look very similar to the ones Diane has, which might be another reason Lawrence is shocked.) Of course, Mark is so godly helpful that Lawrence can get it anyway, or so I'm given to understand.

why would amati give her 3 feathers?

things are heating up nicely btw.

[velvet nightmare]

can anyone figure out what happened at the end with the exchanges?

what's with the 300 silver contract and pouch of gold?

[AKnightWhoSaysNi!]

Originally Posted by velvet nightmare

can anyone figure out what happened at the end with the exchanges?

what's with the 300 silver contract and pouch of gold?

Its from his deal with Amati, the 500 silver now for pyrite later. I think he took part of the payment earlier (and it wasn't shown) or something. But Amati is fulfilling his part of the deal. Its just that hes doing it in a very arrogant way. Effectively by giving him the gold instead of the silver he is saying "HAHA! Look at all the monies I have, you don't have a chance!" Because it costs a fair bit to get the exchange to gold I guess.

[Yuutsu]

Lawrence should maintain a poker face and let Horo see him walking around with Deanna. -.-

[Ninjacat]

Originally Posted by Yuutsu

Lawrence should maintain a poker face and let Horo see him walking around with Deanna. -.-

I second this, if only so we can get more Deanna.

Seriously, I have no idea why I find this anime so engaging. those 22 minutes sure are going by fast and leave me wanting for more like some crack addict. I love the characters, love atmosphere and the world. It really feels like a breathing, living place. That's fairly rare in fantasy.

[Cirocco]

This excellent episode is really putting the screws to the tension and suspense, and it leaves us with a nice cliffhanger for the next episode. Lawrence, after some compelling soul-searching, realizes his deep-rooted feelings for Horo, and even his desire to attain merchant wealth pales against his desire to welcome back Horo as his companion and friend. Watching Lawrence's pain etched on his face when he witnesses Horo privately chatting with Amati really hits home the gravity of the situation. I'm enjoying this series immensely, especially since I haven't read the manga, and so the story presents itself as a nice surprise. And the economic theme provides a nice backdrop to the story of the two main characters.

[Proto]

What volume of the novel does this arc animated? I cannot hold it anymore, Ill start reading the books.

[Anh_Minh]

It's from Volume 3.

[SwiftStrike]

if you want to continue to where-ever it left off start at ch.5, unless you want to read the whole thing



heh, those feathers look like they'l fall off any second to me.

[Zwei]

Does Amati even know Horo is a wolf? I might have missed the part or something but I'm sure he doesn't know, though I find it strange since they live together now...

[gonzo562]

2 episodes in a row with very little horo screen time

7/10 ;( need more horo!

[velvet nightmare]

Originally Posted by AKnightWhoSaysNi!

Its from his deal with Amati, the 500 silver now for pyrite later. I think he took part of the payment earlier (and it wasn't shown) or something. But Amati is fulfilling his part of the deal. Its just that hes doing it in a very arrogant way. Effectively by giving him the gold instead of the silver he is saying "HAHA! Look at all the monies I have, you don't have a chance!" Because it costs a fair bit to get the exchange to gold I guess.

it's not this because the agreement was for lawrence to give him pyrite and instead he gave him a scroll, and amarti has no obligation to give lawrence anything

unless amarti was giving lawrence 300/1000 silver in advance payment for horo

[Anh_Minh]

It was the pyrite deal. The scroll means "I have received the cash. I will give you the pyrite at the appointed time."

[Mr. Anime]

Originally Posted by Zwei

Does Amati even know Horo is a wolf? I might have missed the part or something but I'm sure he doesn't know, though I find it strange since they live together now...

i think u are wrong there, horo still lives in the same inn that lawrence paid for and amati lives elsewhere^^. lawrence just didnt go back to the inn after their quarrel and i m pretty sure amati doesnt know about horo´s tail and ears^^
(u saw him sleeping on the street didnt u)

[cicero]

Originally Posted by Filozof

why would amati give her 3 feathers?

things are heating up nicely btw.

Weren't there feathers all over the place at Diane's? Maybe he picked up a couple because he thought it would look nice. He seems like he would, as a romantic gesture. But I can't remember if she had those feathers before. Would someone confirm this? I don't have my spice and wolf episodes on me right now.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Why? Because he rattled Lawrence? Isn't that Lawrence's fault for letting himself be rattled by little things? Heck, a good part of it is due to Horo being there at Amati's side. Do you mean to say that Horo's an ass? Do you want to die that much?
This isn't slave trading. From what Amati knows, money's pretty much the only thing that can set Horo free to marry him, so that's what he uses. What else would you have of him?

Geez, what's with the tone?

Well, if it helps, I guess I should have been more clear. I'm saying that I know Amarti hasn't technically done anything wrong, just that his actions do not exactly invite admiration. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth, to paraphrase someone else. Amarti is rubbing Lawrence's face in it, for the sheer wantonness of it. Even Lawrence only egged him on to get him to take the deal, and left him alone after that. Yes, Lawrence shouldn't be letting himself be rattled, but Amarti isn't behaving at all like the knight he imagines himself to be.

Think back to Horo and Lawrence's conversation about the difference between childish and manly actions. How is Amarti acting? He's blowing large sums of cash (given low liquidity, the sums involved, and the time period, 10% exchange fee is conservative) just so he can feel cool talking to Lawrence. There's a meaningful difference between what he and Lawrence did. Lawrence behaved like a douche in order to bait Amarti into accepting a deal. Amarti is doing it...to look cool. And losing money doing it. If it were just about rattling lawrence and making him lose his cool, then just bringing Horo was enough.

As for the slave-trading thing, I was just throwing that out there. But surely you can see how Amarti gallantly offering to pay her debts, trying to look awesome wasting money exchanging coins and flaunting his wealth is in a metaphorical sense trying to win Horo over with money. But like I said, it was just a random thought and not all that meaningful.

[EadTaes]

I think I figured who is the person that bought pyrite on credit from Deanna.

Spoiler for Theory about who bought the Pyrite:

It's Horo who bought it. Think about what Balture told Lawrence about Deanna not appreciating commercial talks and giving him the hit to make his demand in the form or a story from Bartose. Witch Lawrence told his story about securing his cargo. Deanna was amused and agreed to the deal. I seriously doubt Amati would have know how to get permission like that. Plus he would have bought the Pyrite right of the bat with money he has and not have done it on credit. However Horo would need to buy on credit since she does not have money. The feathers on he clothing come from he visit to Deanna. Even Horo must surely know she can't Marry Amati because their is no way to tell how he will react when he finds out. And I think that is why Horo bites the hand at the end, it's Lawrences hands because Amati might be feeling cheated out and they have to bolt out of there. Anyway it's my theory base on analysis.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by cicero

Geez, what's with the tone?

Well, if it helps, I guess I should have been more clear. I'm saying that I know Amarti hasn't technically done anything wrong, just that his actions do not exactly invite admiration. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth, to paraphrase someone else. Amarti is rubbing Lawrence's face in it, for the sheer wantonness of it. Even Lawrence only egged him on to get him to take the deal, and left him alone after that. Yes, Lawrence shouldn't be letting himself be rattled, but Amarti isn't behaving at all like the knight he imagines himself to be.

Other people have called him a knight. His self-image is more in question. Mostly, he sees Lawrence as a bad man - because he thinks Lawrence is using the debt to force Horo to stay with him. OK, he's wrong. But that's naivety, not malice.

Think back to Horo and Lawrence's conversation about the difference between childish and manly actions. How is Amarti acting? He's blowing large sums of cash (given low liquidity, the sums involved, and the time period, 10% exchange fee is conservative) just so he can feel cool talking to Lawrence. There's a meaningful difference between what he and Lawrence did. Lawrence behaved like a douche in order to bait Amarti into accepting a deal. Amarti is doing it...to look cool. And losing money doing it. If it were just about rattling lawrence and making him lose his cool, then just bringing Horo was enough.

Or maybe he did it as retaliation because Lawrence was a "douche". He's supposed to be a knight, not a saint. There's also the fact that he sees Lawrence as a "bad man". Last point to consider: maybe Amati should be taken at face value, and really did it as a courtesy. We're seeing it as an attack because Lawrence does, and the scene is from his point of view, but what's the truth of it?

As for the slave-trading thing, I was just throwing that out there. But surely you can see how Amarti gallantly offering to pay her debts, trying to look awesome wasting money exchanging coins and flaunting his wealth is in a metaphorical sense trying to win Horo over with money.

It might be true if he was so rich he could buy Horo's freedom out of pocket change. Though even then, it wouldn't be merely money, but generosity, which isn't a dislikable trait.

Here, the sum is more than his entire fortune at the time he proposed the contract. It's not just money: it's courage, the ability to make money (as opposed to just having it), and, above all, his willingness to put it all on the line for Horo.

Honestly, I feel bad for Amati. He's sincere in his love for Horo, or rather, the lie crafted by her. He does all in his power to help her out of a situation she deceived him to believe she was in. And what does he get out of it?

[Raiku-chi]

Originally Posted by Zwei

Does Amati even know Horo is a wolf? I might have missed the part or something but I'm sure he doesn't know, though I find it strange since they live together now...

I feel that that's going to be a contributing factor later on

Can't wait! ^_-

[velvet nightmare]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It was the pyrite deal. The scroll means "I have received the cash. I will give you the pyrite at the appointed time."

that still doesnt explain the nominal value of 300

that would also defeat the purpose of the forward transaction if lawrence received payment the same day he is supposed to return the underlying asset.


he was supposed to have received the 500 silver the night before hence his modified short sell