Little Busters - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

[Ceral]

Spoiler for Comparison to previous Key adaptations:

Air and Kanon, past Key Anime Adaptations, never started for me until about episodes 7-8. I could have easily dropped those shows before then, but they're among my top 5 anime now. Just sayin'.

[Insane]

Originally Posted by Ceral

Spoiler for Comparison to previous Key adaptations:

Air and Kanon, past Key Anime Adaptations, never started for me until about episodes 7-8. I could have easily dropped those shows before then, but they're among my top 5 anime now. Just sayin'.

Spoiler for Comparison to previous Key adaptations:

Extremely well said, and I heartily concur.

The difference in tone compared to Air and Kanon (and Clannad too) is marked, and the “group dynamic” factor can certainly be pointed to as one of the reasons why. Perhaps another factor boils down to the studio handling the adaptation. JC Staff has made some wonderful anime in the past around similar premises — though, granted, not quite similar enough to warrant direct comparison. Toradora is the closest in my book, although Ano Natsu shares a few key elements. The former is somewhat self-explanatory, while in the latter I’d venture to say it is namely the focus on a group of close friends (within which drama/romance begins to stir) that makes the comparison apt.

[backbone]

Originally Posted by Insane

Spoiler for Comparison to previous Key adaptations:

The difference in tone compared to Air and Kanon (and Clannad too) is marked, and the “group dynamic” factor can certainly be pointed to as one of the reasons why. Perhaps another factor boils down to the studio handling the adaptation.

Spoiler for Comparison to previous Key adaptations:

As i had said in other thread before. A way to deal with expectation of this adaptation is to see JC Staff as a 3-4 star hotel and Kyo-Ani as a 5-6 star hotel (No offense for J.C. Staff here). This show probably has Kyo-Ani hype, but in fact is not Kyo-Ani production, so please bear with it.

[leokiko]

[mod edit: Please don't make derogatory remarks about people/comments on other websites.]

Originally Posted by Ceral

Spoiler for Comparison to previous Key adaptations:

Air and Kanon, past Key Anime Adaptations, never started for me until about episodes 7-8. I could have easily dropped those shows before then, but they're among my top 5 anime now. Just sayin'.

Spoiler for Comparison to previous Key adaptations:

I actually disagree with this. Kanon and Clannad grabbed me from the beginning. LB! has the weakest start so far, but a favorable one nonetheless.

[winhlp32]

Episode 2:

Definitely liked this more than the first episode. The baseball stuff were especially fun, and I don't particularly think it's pointless. It's just like how Clannad had the drama club, and I didn't really see people complain about that. Komari was also brought to life better than expected. She talks a lot faster too, which is a plus.

I do have to say there are some timing problems that are kind of undermining the comedy in this show, maybe sometimes the scene cuts too fast or the punchline/tsukkomi is being delivered too slowly. Hopefully this will get better later on.

[matrixhazard]

Originally Posted by winhlp32

he baseball stuff were especially fun, and I don't particularly think it's pointless. It's just like how Clannad had the drama club, and I didn't really see people complain about that.

Some people in my country always ask "Why it has to be a baseball". The boring thing is later they will try to connect the first question with the complaints how bad they think the anime is.

They always said Kyousuke and the rest are doing stupid thing and cannot understand what is this about anyway. I always tell them just be patient until you see the rest of this, but again, they will start complaining with the again and again reason like "Because J.C. do it".

[Aspirety]

On the note of "why baseball", I guess it's just because I relate to it better, but it was all outlined in episode 1.
Kyousuke stated that he wants to do something to define himself, something to express his individuality and freedom as a human being, to do something against the expectations of society and his peers. An expression of free will, if you will. Spontanaeity is something I can really relate to.
So, why baseball? Why not baseball? They had the gag about starting a band in episode 2, which makes it clear that Kyousuke never really cared about the baseball. He just wants to do something with his friends, make some memories, leave a mark before he's off to the real world. That's why they're playing baseball, it's not complicated at all.

And given that, I think it's easy to see that baseball itself isn't the real focus of the story. People calling this a sports anime are probably going to be gravely mistaken.

[Rengemaru]

Originally Posted by leokiko

I actually disagree with this. Kanon and Clannad grabbed me from the beginning. LB! has the weakest start so far, but a favorable one nonetheless.

Spoiler for Comparison to previous Key adaptations:

I agree and disagree with you two on this matter. All previous KEY work (Air, Kanon, Clannad) popped some "mystery" shots in the very first episode, even without knowing anything about the story. And what I mean by "mystery shots" can be properly explained by the "Secret of the World" scene in episode 2; something that seems normal or casual but is, in reality, a big element of the story. Kanon had a few, hard to spot, ones. Air was drowning in them. Clannad had a some nasty jabs and hooks in there and ended with a massive uppercut.

However, Little Busters! didn't have such things. Or rather, JC Staff didn't go on KyoAni's style. This might not be their fault since they are being very strict to the VN, or so I'm hearing. So we can't really place the blame on them. Cause if you put yourself in KEY's feet, you wouldn't repeat the same sequence that you used in your previous 3 games in the latest, 4th game. And sadly, this is reflecting on people's initial acceptance of this anime. This can also be intentional due to the high reputation and expectations they got. More like faking a punch for distraction and then striking back out of the blue; something very KEY-like if you ask me.

Back to the 2nd episode, I'm really starting to enjoy this. Rin is moe. Horie Yui's managed to get well into Riki's role and mashed away all hints of her previous roles (the hints which made many of her fans unable to be at ease with this role). Rin is moe. And the story is finally starting to unfold, or rather, "mystery shots" have starting making an appearance in a very KEY-ish style. We'll just have to wait and see. And Rin is moe.

[Ceral]

Originally Posted by leokiko

I actually disagree with this. Kanon and Clannad grabbed me from the beginning. LB! has the weakest start so far, but a favorable one nonetheless.

Originally Posted by Rengemaru

Spoiler for Comparison to previous Key adaptations:

I agree and disagree with you two on this matter. All previous KEY work (Air, Kanon, Clannad) popped some "mystery" shots in the very first episode, even without knowing anything about the story. And what I mean by "mystery shots" can be properly explained by the "Secret of the World" scene in episode 2; something that seems normal or casual but is, in reality, a big element of the story. Kanon had a few, hard to spot, ones. Air was drowning in them. Clannad had a some nasty jabs and hooks in there and ended with a massive uppercut.

Spoiler for Comparison to previous Key adaptations:

Well let me elaborate because I feel like I might be being misunderstood here. What I mean by 7-8 Episodes to "start", is 7-8 episodes to feel really "engaged". When I watched Air and Kanon, there was nothing all that gripping or even interesting the first few episodes, obviously the building blocks of the arcs were being set up, but foreshadowing and hints are just that. Not the sort of stuff to really sell you until you know their true meaning. The only things that kept me watching were the girls antics which were just mildly entertaining at the time, since I wasn't totally used to the sort of thing. Mildly entertaining isn't the way I'd describe my favorite show, so in order to become a favorite show it has to be pretty awesome later on.

If you expect to be blown away, you've gotta at least finish the first arc. Right now, if you just find yourself mildly entertained, that's normal even for potential big Key Fans and it only gets better from here.

On the other hand if you find yourself tortured by the antics, imo that's a good reason to drop. I think you've got to at least empathize or admire the naivete, childishness, and innocence that most of Key Heroine's share, or else it'll be a very tough watch. You might become one of those guys that comes in to complain every week yet still keep watching until the end. Oh the masochism.

[Rengemaru]

Spoiler for Reply to comparison to previous Key adaptations:

On the contrary, like some people, I really enjoying being "curious" and chasing after weird and seemingly meaningless hints and try to understand their meaning. Many people on the other hand quickly loose interest in things they don't understand; that's human nature.

I didn't misunderstand you and I fully know as a good old KEY fan that things don't start stirring up till 9-10 eps later. But for some people, they got hooked up much earlier. I had no idea what AIR was about nor I had watched any drama anime of that caliber. But I knew from the first few scenes that it was "really something" and that I should push on even if I'm not fully comprehending things.

But I'm really happy at how the pace is moving splendidly with this and hoping it retains it and gets better.

Rin is still moe.

[TJR]

Originally Posted by Rengemaru

Spoiler for Comparison to previous Key adaptations:

However, Little Busters! didn't have such things. Or rather, JC Staff didn't go on KyoAni's style. This might not be their fault since they are being very strict to the VN, or so I'm hearing. So we can't really place the blame on them. Cause if you put yourself in KEY's feet, you wouldn't repeat the same sequence that you used in your previous 3 games in the latest, 4th game. And sadly, this is reflecting on people's initial acceptance of this anime.

Spoiler for Comparison to other Key works and initial reaction to the game:

Initial reception of the game was mixed, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that some viewers are struggling to get into the show. Many fans peg Little Busters as an embodiment of perfection, but the truth is that it was a more polarizing game than previous Key products. You have to look back to Summer 2007 to see what players were saying at the time.

Some felt that Key struck out on the humour and school life parts (less focused and more mundane than before). I think most readers loved the latter parts of the story, which even vindicated the game in the eyes of many detractors. Nevertheless, there's good reason to expect a mixed response from anime-only viewers.

[Triple_R]

Spoiler for Comparison to previous Key adaptations and Maeda stories:

Key has always been a blend of goofball comedy with what could probably best be called "moe drama".

That's just Maeda's writing style. The man is superb at writing certain types of stories, but he has very little range.

For example - Why baseball? Because Maeda likes baseball. Clannad had an entire episode devoted to a baseball game, and so did Angel Beats! (which was wrote by Maeda). Maeda simply likes the sport. I say we should just roll with it - Better for a writer to write about a sport that he genuinely loves (and hence that "labor of love" feeling comes with it) than a writer try to come up with something obscure just for the sake of it being obscure.

[DXMichael]

I've watched the first 2 episodes of this anime now but it hasn't really appealed to me. I get a few chuckles every once in a while and there's maybe 1 or 2 characters I like but it's nothing that would want to keep me watching (However, I will, since it's a personal rule that once I start an anime, I finish it)

I've seen a few friends tell me they've enjoyed the anime a lot but I can't really agree or see it from their point of view. Hopefully the next few episodes perk up my interest a bit more

[relentlessflame]

I added a bunch of spoiler tags. Please remember to *always* use spoiler tags when comparing to any other anime or story that other people may not know. Just because you have seen all the previous Key anime, please don't assume that everyone has.

[monir]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

That being said, everyone's tastes are their own. Whether it's good or not on the whole isn't something that's necessarily decidable from the first two episodes alone -- I'll at least wait to see where it goes. It certainly wouldn't be the first show (whether Key adaptation or otherwise) that starts with something of a meandering slow start and comes into its own as the plot comes together down the road. (Edit: And I should also say that, to that point, the little hints in this episode were pretty good at giving you the sense that something much more significant is going on here. With the continued emphasis on "if only these days could go on forever", it's pretty clear that they're coming to an end...)

*bites Relentless*

How long have I known you in these parts of the forum? Let's see,... 8 years give or take? This is you in a nutshell... you will focus on the story above everything else. You would enjoy the story of Romeo and Juliet even if it is reenacted by two stick figure. For me, that's not possible. Having a good story isn't enough! I'm watching an anime adaptation. I've a certain set of expectation from anime. If those aren't met, I simply can't get into a story with the same enthusiasm. There are plenty of average stories I've enjoyed tremendously because the overall animation effort (drawing, motion, background, music, voice acting etc. etc. etc.) was very good. I love watching a typical Makoto Shinkai because how gorgeously animated they are and yet, I thought the stories told in those anime were mostly average. I loved a lot of anime by Production I.G and Sunrise. I also enjoyed a lot series by Shaft despite the fact the production value don't even come close to studios like KyoAni, I.G., Sunrise, and few other upstart studios because they are mixing stylistic approach and innovation (at cutting corners ) so masterfully. That said, they are still compensating for those weakness by putting a lot of work behind things like music, voice acting, script writing, and so many other detail that go into making a good anime. The point is having a high budget or not having one is moot. A story will receive well from all corner of audience when a studio properly capture the fundamental used to tell a story in anime.

I'm NOT talking about the entire series based on the first two episodes. I'm talking about the first two episodes in their own individual threads where I've stated as best as I could why I thought they weren't good at all. This is still an anime adaptation where a lot of things need to go into to capture a story that plays out in a game. The presentation in an anime adaptation is very different than a game even though the story is the same. And I think the presentation in the first two episodes has been sub-par to capture and convey the story. I'm not missing any clues (I'm fairly smart... ) about where the story is headed, but I could care less at this point. For me, a story isn't everything when I'm watching an anime. It's how well an anime tells a story by using all those elements (that gives its audio and visual dimension) matters more to me before I can get into a story. In an anime, I put far more emphasis at looking (Animated motion, background drawing, detail, color, character design etc.) and listening (Voice acting, tone color, music etc..) than reading (the story itself and the script).

I hope the above made sense to you at where I'm coming from cause it will be unfortunate if you start to misunderstand too. If this still wasn't enough I'll start bombarding your PM/VM until I've made myself clear. *kidding* I hope the game players also understand that I'm not criticizing the story, rather the presentation of the story. It's easy for a game player to look over the defects of the first two episode because you are re-living it. For me as a first time viewer, that's not the case. And even when I'm familiar with a story beforehand I still tend to put more emphasis on how a story is told than the individual quality and substance of the said story. Anyway, I promise I won't bitch every week. I'll probably watch this show for another 3-4 episodes before deciding if I need to put this show on hold for future viewing or not. So bear with me for a little longer....

[Jasque]

Originally Posted by winhlp32

I do have to say there are some timing problems that are kind of undermining the comedy in this show, maybe sometimes the scene cuts too fast or the punchline/tsukkomi is being delivered too slowly. Hopefully this will get better later on.

That is Director Yoshiki Yamakawa's trademark.

Watch Kill me Baby and you'll know what I mean (I dropped it with 4 episodes lol).

I hope he gets better with it someday...

[NoemiChan]

Just watched episode 2, glad the "romance" is about to start...

[Eragon]

Dammit Monir, don't post such huge posts! I get inferiority complex just seeing them. I almost wasn't going to post

Anyways, I already like 3 of the 6 characters that have been introduced - namely, Kyousuke(obvious), Masato(his resemblance to Sunohara is what hooked me ) and Kengo - which, honestly, exceeds MY expectation.

And since, Komari seems so interested in Rin(And says she wants a wife), I already have a yuri pairing What more could I ask for?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by monir

This is you in a nutshell... you will focus on the story above everything else. You would enjoy the story of Romeo and Juliet even if it is reenacted by two stick figure.

I wouldn't go that far. Actually, I have enjoyed a lot of anime with severely-flawed or awkwardly-presented stories if it manages to engage me in some way. It's true that I won't generally watch an anime just for its production values if I'm not engaged by the story at all (I've said it before: I'm not a fan of "anime" itself, I'm a fan of certain types of anime), but I think the production values are still very important, because it's essential to conveying emotions. Most of my favourite anime moments were defined primarily by the visual and auditory characteristics of the production, in addition to their context in the overall story..

(That being said... I'm not sure if it validates your stick figure point or what, but one of my favourite anime moments of all time is Miyako's voice mails in ef - a tale of memories, which is all just audio (music + voice acting) and on-screen text. So it doesn't necessarily take *much* more than stick figures, perhaps? But you did touch on SHAFT's stylistic approach too, so this isn't really much of an admission actually.)

I will say, though, that I am much more focused on the way a story comes together than on whatever happens in the moment. So as long as I can see the way the pieces are coming together, I can put up with a fair bit along the way. So in this show's case, though I can't say that it was entirely gripping as an anime-only viewer right from the get-go, I could quickly see the way the pieces are coming together. So in that sense, I am willing to wait it out. I'm willing to assume that, when the show's key moments do come, they'll be presented in a memorable way.

Originally Posted by monir

The point is having a high budget or not having one is moot. A story will receive well from all corner of audience when a studio properly capture the fundamental used to tell a story in anime.

Well... it's pretty rare to encounter any sort of show that's universally well-received... But I suppose you will get a better overall reception if your production receives high marks across every objective metric (because then all that remains is subjective taste).



I think I get the overall intention of what you're saying, which is that nothing is "carrying" this production through this part of the story you don't find engaging. If there were any visual or auditory aspect of the production that was spectacular, you could stick with it even if the story isn't "all that". And given that you feel that you're a bit more biased towards audiovisual presentation elements, the show isn't satisfying to you. If the question is "can this anime be widely recommended for its worth as an anime at this point, without reference to the source material or the pedigree of the author?"... I guess it'd be a hard recommendation right now. As it stands currently, it's probably a bit of an acquired taste (because it depends mostly on a certain brand of humour).

Originally Posted by monir

In an anime, I put far more emphasis at looking (Animated motion, background drawing, detail, color, character design etc.) and listening (Voice acting, tone color, music etc..) than reading (the story itself and the script).

I don't think "reading" is really the right word, because I've never been much of a reader. The only things I've basically found the patience to read have been certain visual novels and certain light novels. So I think the audiovisual aspect is actually pretty important to me too. But, I do place it all in the context of the story. Although I appreciate the art, to me it's more a means than an end unto itself. I suppose I could also say that I see these early episodes of Little Busters as a means to an end as well, hence my willingness to suspend judgement for longer. (Then again, I've always hated judging anime by the episode anyway -- to me, it's all connected...)

I will make one more admission that's probably a horrible thing to say in a Little Busters thread... but speaking of the importance of visual aspects, I did try a few times to start the Little Busters game (knowing that there likely something worthwhile as far as they story goes), but I just could never find the time and motivation to get past the first 10-15 minutes. A major reason, in addition to the sort of odd, abrupt start, is because... some of the character designs in the game (particularly of some of the male characters) just annoyed the heck out of me. That's not a knock on people who like that style... but I was "shallow enough" that I decided to move on to games with a more attractive (to me) art style. It's a "visual novel" so finding the visual attractive matters! So I do understand also what you mean by the importance of anime being in the audio-visual aspects. It's not an aspect I can ignore either in any visual medium either.

[Insane]

Spoiler for Any kind soul can translate this? I'm curious: