Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 04 Discussion / Poll

[Meophist]

Originally Posted by Kikaifan

I think it's about preventing coups. Look at all the attempted takeovers in Africa in the last half-century- a lot of them came out of very stupid or very ambitious young officers with lots of stupid-or-ambitious-young-officer friends. If you focus on 'ambitious' over 'stupid' you've just described Hayate perfectly.

Now Midchildan society seems pretty stable, but look at all the mad scientist types they have to deal with. You wouldn't want those same powerful maniacs in charge of a unit of like-minded powerful maniacs who understand how your military works very well.

Err… if the purpose of the limiters is too prevent coups, Hayate won't have the key for Nanoha and Fate's… and the one with Hayate won't be her friend's.

[Chaos2Frozen]

The damn purpose of the limiters, as mentioned in the episode along with several of the posters here before, is just for formality sake.

NOT every high ranking officers would need to have it.

It's just a scam to get pass the rule of having only a standard magic strength in each department. Sure it sounds weird, but Mid-Childa's military probably works differently from any of ours.

[Kikaifan]

Originally Posted by Meophist

Err… if the purpose of the limiters is too prevent coups, Hayate won't have the key for Nanoha and Fate's… and the one with Hayate won't be her friend's.

The purpose of the rule against collections of power is to prevent coups. The limiters exist as a loophole to that rule. Of course they have the keys in the hands of their friends (though Chrono is definitely a TSAB loyalist)- they're trying to get around the regulations.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

The damn purpose of the limiters, as mentioned in the episode along with several of the posters here before, is just for formality sake.

In the case of Hayate and co. it's just a formality, but why do the rules exist that make the formality necessary?

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Kikaifan

In the case of Hayate and co. it's just a formality, but why do the rules exist that make the formality necessary?

It could probably be something as simple as having equality among the department.

Like, it's a way to be sure that one department doesn't hog up all the manpower, while others were doing double shifts to keep up.

[Kikaifan]

I'm just taking it a step further and saying 'a way to make sure one department doesn't hog up all the manpower and then use it to storm the parliament and seize power.'

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Kikaifan

I'm just taking it a step further and saying 'a way to make sure one department doesn't hog up all the manpower and then use it to storm the parliament and seize power.'

My bad then

But actually, I think it's more like it's Mid-Childa's way of life. Being involve with people from several different worlds, it's better to play it safe and keep them all happy by treating them equally.

[Deathkillz]

yea great but do they even know that with hayate at full power she could probably do the job herself if she wanted to its not like its hard to storm the head office if you are death itself :3

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

yea great but do they even know that with hayate at full power she could probably do the job herself if she wanted to its not like its hard to storm the head office if you are death itself :3

Ah, but remember that their job isn't to just smash and grab

And as I've mentioned before, one woman can't be everywhere.

[Darco_emp]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Ah, but remember that their job isn't to just smash and grab

And as I've mentioned before, one woman can't be everywhere.

But but its given a world-class magic girl can split and be at lease two places at same time, just like a world class clown...

I personally think they are just going to use the limiter thing as Desu Ex Machina

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Darco_emp

But but its given a world-class magic girl can split and be at lease two places at same time, just like a world class clown...

I personally think they are just going to use the limiter thing as Desu Ex Machina

To what? Level an asteroid ?

As was mention, only their raw powers were being limited, their skills still remains S+ rank... And judging by their performance, they really don't seem to need the extra firepower.

Which means they would only need to remove their limit is they just need to blast something REALLY big out of the way...

(Oh, I also want to take this chance to rub it in the faces of those people who thought that Nanoha would have combat problems... SUCK IT TURD ! )

[Darco_emp]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

To what? Level an asteroid ?

As was mention, only their raw powers were being limited, their skills still remains S+ rank... And judging by their performance, they really don't seem to need the extra firepower.

Which means they would only need to remove their limit is they just need to blast something REALLY big out of the way...

(Oh, I also want to take this chance to rub it in the faces of those people who thought that Nanoha would have combat problems... SUCK IT TURD ! )

But there are times skills just will not do and you need a REALLY REALLY big gun , and I can't wait til that moment to arrive

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Darco_emp

But there are times skills just will not do and you need a REALLY REALLY big gun , and I can't wait til that moment to arrive

Which I why I want to be in the training devision should I get admitted.

Spoiler for Gotta love R&D:

[Seiryuu]

The basic reason I thought damage control was what we saw in ep 1 and 2. We don't know how long the limiter rule has been around, but having three young women blasting excessively massive holes in buildings and catching comrades in their freeze spells could have offered some discouragement. All military forces like to keep the damage down to that which is necessary and repairable, and NO one likes a risk of friendly fire(unless we're talking about Nanoha, since to her the words are synonymous). Besides, we know that the trio are experts, but that DOESN'T mean we know they can properly control their full power regardless of the situation. All the post-airport action has been Nanoha-tachi with limitters in place. Anyone who's spent awhile training and working with barely-manageable forces will be able to control weaker forces with incredible ease. Just because the girls have such skill with BB guns doesn't mean you shouldn't run for your life when they pull out the bazookas.
I honestly doubt that this is "just a formality", since it was made quite clear that clearance is very difficult. Yes, they have to get Hayate's permission, but Hayate can't release the locks unless HER superiors give the okay, and who knows who THEY may have to answer to. Honestly, this seems just about as formal and immaterial as the guards we have on nuclear weapons.

[Erio]

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

The basic reason I thought damage control was what we saw in ep 1 and 2. We don't know how long the limiter rule has been around, but having three young women blasting excessively massive holes in buildings and catching comrades in their freeze spells could have offered some discouragement. All military forces like to keep the damage down to that which is necessary and repairable, and NO one likes a risk of friendly fire(unless we're talking about Nanoha, since to her the words are synonymous). Besides, we know that the trio are experts, but that DOESN'T mean we know they can properly control their full power regardless of the situation. All the post-airport action has been Nanoha-tachi with limitters in place. Anyone who's spent awhile training and working with barely-manageable forces will be able to control weaker forces with incredible ease. Just because the girls have such skill with BB guns doesn't mean you shouldn't run for your life when they pull out the bazookas.
I honestly doubt that this is "just a formality", since it was made quite clear that clearance is very difficult. Yes, they have to get Hayate's permission, but Hayate can't release the locks unless HER superiors give the okay, and who knows who THEY may have to answer to. Honestly, this seems just about as formal and immaterial as the guards we have on nuclear weapons.

The limiter has probably been around forever but it was never used as it was not necessary. If someone is deemed to be mentally unstable and unable to control his or her powers and is considered a threat, then such person would never get promoted and probably even kicked out of the administration. Episode 5 has probably a perfect example of this.

If we go by this idea, Nanoha and Fate were promoted to Captain rank, and Hayate to Commander rank, meaning that the TSAB completely trusts their abilities, which include power management and damage control.

This is why it is very believable that the limiter was, as Chaos said, just used as a scam to get pass the rule of having only a standard magic strength in each department. And that is exactly what Nanoha and Rein said it was used for.

As far as I know, Hayate can release Nanoha's and Fate's limiters without anyone else's permission. She is their Commander, after all. Hayate's limiter release key is the one being held by Chrono and Carim.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Erio

As far as I know, Hayate can release Nanoha's and Fate's limiters without anyone else's permission. She is their Commander, after all. Hayate's limiter release key is the one being held by Chrono and Carim.

Acous: Carim, Hayate needs her limiter removed, could you grant permission?

Carim: Why sure, but why isn't Admiral Harlaown the one doing it?

Acous: He said something about not wanting his 'peaceful and normal' life to end so soon again...

Carim: Huh?

Acous: Don't worry, he's been edgy since the last 2 series ...

Carim:

[Kha]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Acous: Carim, Hayate needs her limiter removed, could you grant permission?

Carim: Why sure, but why isn't Admiral Harlaown the one doing it?

Acous: He said something about not wanting his 'peaceful and normal' life to end so soon again...

Carim: Huh?

Acous: Don't worry, he's been edgy since the last 2 series ...

Carim:

That Esper has his eye on the big picture indeed...

And to clear further doubts...

Carim: I'm not too sure about this now...

Acous: Well Meister Haru- I mean, Hayate told me to tell you that she needed her full powers to be able to create the biggest Velka cosplay party ever.

Carim: (catches fire) This won't do! In the name of the Light of Velka, Limiter released as of 5 mins ago!

Chrono: (sneezes and shivers) Why do I have a bad feeling about this...

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Kha

That Esper has his eye on the big picture indeed...

And to clear further doubts...

Carim: I'm not too sure about this now...

Acous: Well Meister Haru- I mean, Hayate told me to tell you that she needed her full powers to be able to create the biggest Velka cosplay party ever.

Carim: (catches fire) This won't do! In the name of the Light of Velka, Limiter released as of 5 mins ago!

Chrono: (sneezes and shivers) Why do I have a bad feeling about this...

Heh

Can you image him singing "Kentai Life Returns" in some bar?

[Seiryuu]

I'm just going by what was said and what little I've seen in military fiction. They said that all captains needed Hayate's permission and Hayate needed permission from her superiors. This COULD be taken as each officer having full control of his/her subordinates' limiters, but that seems unlikely, especially given how Hayate would not likely have any qualms about dropping them. Usually, in what I've read, low permissions such as combat and flight clearance are in the hands of the immediate superior, but only the higher-ups can give the okay. Put another way, Hayate probably can't remove any limiters that her superiors don't say are necessary for the mission. If this was merely a formality or a cheat, then it wouldn't make sense for the captains to be having any problems or troubles with it, but both the characters and the background music made it sound like they were birds who'd had their wings cut off.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

I'm just going by what was said and what little I've seen in military fiction. They said that all captains needed Hayate's permission and Hayate needed permission from her superiors.

Okay.

This COULD be taken as each officer having full control of his/her subordinates' limiters, but that seems unlikely, especially given how Hayate would not likely have any qualms about dropping them.

Huh? It's not likely because Hayate doesn't have a problem with removing them? Or unless you meant have them removed completely?

Usually, in what I've read, low permissions such as combat and flight clearance are in the hands of the immediate superior, but only the higher-ups can give the okay. Put another way, Hayate probably can't remove any limiters that her superiors don't say are necessary for the mission.

Being the one IN CHARGE, means that the decision to make that call is up to you, but you'll have to answer for it later.

Hayate has the power to remove their limiter whenever she wants, but she'll have to answer to her superior if anything goes wrong.

If this was merely a formality or a cheat, then it wouldn't make sense for the captains to be having any problems or troubles with it, but both the characters and the background music made it sound like they were birds who'd had their wings cut off.

It's because of this formality that they feel like their handicapped. It doesn't suggest that they feel like they're being controled.

[Seiryuu]

I was referring to how trigger-happy the entire trio seems. I don't think she would hesitate for a second to authorize a limit-break. As I said though, these people looked like someone just took their puppy, and not like the puppy's outside where they can go get it whenever they want, but rather like it's at a relative's house and they only occasionally are even able to ask to go see it.
And, like I said, UNIT leaders usually only have the authority to do what the higher-ups say they can do at a time and place, including the number and size of the limits they can remove(though there may be some rules allowing exceptions in case of emergencies). If a mission isn't likely to be severely dangerous, dangerous countermeasures are not going to be authorized. By the time a mission starts, Hayate probably knows what is and isn't allowed, and if there isn't going to be one or two S-class criminals involved, S-class combat ability is not likely to be on that list. Also, it doesn't make sense if Hayate can go ahead and tell her troops to use any level of force but has to ask permission for her own power. If a situation is severe enough that the commander needs to get directly involved, then they need to be able to at least match their subordinates, so I can't see a commander saying "Okay troops, you pull out your big guns while I go get my commander to give me mine".
Oh well, we'll all find out eventually. I sincerely doubt we're going to go too far before something happens that necessitates heavier force, in which case we'll probably see either Hayate gives the S-class order or a higher authority says she can do so. BTW, I'm still half-expecting something to happen and one of them goes berserk and breaks straight through their limiters.