Code Geass R2 - Overall Series Impressions & Total Series Rating

[roriconfan]

It is probably me but I found CG being too influenced by V for Vendetta. The scene were a huge crowd is dressed like the masked antihero as well as his will to die in the end for a better future felt way too similar. But this is the thing; I understood V's wish to die. He had no place in the new world he created. That was the plan all along. Lulu just gave up on his original plan along the way and refused to try for something else.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

I hope Lelouch didn't fake his own death, that would both be insulting on several levels. The cart driver club don't have any facts... besides, only the word of god can change his death now. Even though they announced him as dead.

If Lelouch lived, which the staff said he didn't, so let's not go there please, he wouldn't have done it on purpose. That would really contradict... everything.

...We need to go to generic thread or Lelouch thread about this. This ISN'T the place for it.

Hm, probably. All this has some impact on one's impression of the series, but I'm no longer sure that's what it's about.

[azul120]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

It is probably me but I found CG being too influenced by V for Vendetta. The scene were a huge crowd is dressed like the masked antihero as well as his will to die in the end for a better future felt way too similar. But this is the thing; I understood V's wish to die. He had no place in the new world he created. That was the plan all along. Lulu just gave up on his original plan along the way and refused to try for something else.

If Lelouch "had no place in the new world", then neither did some of the people who were still living at the end.

[Cephei Mordred]

On a totally unrelated note...

Suzaku should have dated someone in R2.

Perhaps Anya, because she has pink hair.

Or Ceceile could have made a man out of him.

Or perhaps even Monica, simply so she'd get some more goddamn airtime. :/

[Xander]

Originally Posted by azul120

If Lelouch "had no place in the new world", then neither did some of the people who were still living at the end.

One might well argue that, from an external perspective, but Lelouch didn't see them as the problem. He was too focused on himself, for better and for worse.

What do I mean by that? Lelouch essentially saw himself as the most important piece that needed to be removed from the game. Was he wrong? Arguably.

Originally Posted by roriconfan

It is probably me but I found CG being too influenced by V for Vendetta. The scene were a huge crowd is dressed like the masked antihero as well as his will to die in the end for a better future felt way too similar.

I think you're underestimating, if not misrepresenting, the fact that V for Vendetta, as well as the character itself, is all about anarchism vs. fascism, which has very little to do with what Lelouch of the Rebellion, both the character and the story, is about (leaving aside all the evident differences, naturally, such as format and target audiences). I think the similarities are mostly superficial and coincidental once you really try to go into them.

Honestly though, that general idea wasn't exactly invented by V for Vendetta. It's funny that most of us here have a Western cultural background and are trying to interpret or criticize Code Geass from that angle when the show was created by Japanese production staff for a Japanese audience. Trying to apply only Western categories to an Eastern work seems a bit forceful and...incomplete. Surely the creators have been influenced by other Japanese works, anime and otherwise.

Well, that and the fact I still think we're ultimately just going on about the same debates over and over. But I guess that's natural.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Cephei Mordred

On a totally unrelated note...

Suzaku should have dated someone in R2.

Perhaps Anya, because she has pink hair.

Or Ceceile could have made a man out of him.

Or perhaps even Monica, simply so she'd get some more goddamn airtime. :/

yes...
because that would totally fit in with his whole "i lost the woman i love to a tragic betrayal by my best friend, and now i am doing what i believed would fulfill her wish" characterization for the entire season
makes perfect sense really

he even makes it a POINT to say that he "lost an irreplaceable woman"

[Cephei Mordred]

He already betrays everyone he meets anyway.

[NinjaYali]

Originally Posted by azul120

That was basically Zero Requiem, which he enacted after getting betrayed by the Black Knights and Nunnally's apparent death. He was beyond the Despair Event Horizon, and wanted an excuse to die.

@NinjaYali: Lelouch makes Sasuke likable? Hello?

Sasuke irrefutably jumped past the Moral Event Horizon. There's basically no comparison.

You didn't read what I said did you?

Moral Event Horizon issues aside. Since it can be argued for Lelouch as well but if the writers wanted to turn this into a sudden revenge tragedy crap they went off tangent.

Sasuke goes after his victim and kills him with his own barehands. LeDouche, seeks some convoluted plan which gets a lot of other victims killed in the process instead of I don't know pulling out a gun and shooting Rolo right there and there.

The shit would have obviously work given how Rolo was almost completely under control at that point.

In short, Sasuke at least has balls. Lelouch going beyond his effeminate design definitely has no balls.

Nunnally was still "dead" at that point, but I think it's a fact that Lelouch said nothing about what kinds of "other ways" there "may" have been, except that the context makes it clear he would have come out alive.

We're back at the Nunnally discussion?

Let's swat this crap once and for all and look at the ever reasonable sub-plot.

1. Lelouch wants to make better world for Nunnally.
2. Goes around starting rebellion for sake of it
3. Nunnally decides to reject rebellion and create reasonable autonomy for Japan.
4. Lelouch under euphemism of 'taking fight elsewhere' subsequently continues fight anyhow despite Nunnally giving a literal 'fuck you' to his revolution
5. Lelouch brings fight to capital knowing his sister is there and his opponent has a nuclear weapon. NOT enough of a deterrent apparently and HE didn't expected his ambiguous 'LIVE' order to cause Suzaku to use nuke.
6. Heroic BSOD
7. Friends decide to backstab him over 'oh noes, we've been used that led to us having international support, more manpower and resources as well as a genuine threat to the evil empire. I KNOW!! Let's ask, the reasonable Prince for independence now in turn for backstab and allying with him when it was quite clear he was willing to work with us and give us autonomy in the first place!!'
8. Rolo saves him, at this point Lelouch decides he still 'has purpose' and goes on to mess up his ebil dad's plan of peace (I've already cover this so I'll leave it here)
9. I am now Emperor Lelouch but I'm feeling suicidal as well. However I'm not going to be a man and kill myself right here and now. I've got to go off with a bang and die like Jeebus (Happy Easter) for sake of ambiguous Sunrise symbolism which has been thrown in at last second.
10. Suzaku says 'fuck my ideals' but ends up with his ideals being upheld anyway seeing LeDouch is able to push through reforms and as such he is now able to 'actually' work within system. BUT!! Might as well tagalong with friend's great plan.
11. Go around shooting shit
12. Nunnally is alive!! Does not like Lelouch's bullshit plan. Lelouch could easily ease tensions by working with her and promoting peace before shooting himself and letting her take over. Why is he still feeling suicidal?

WHO FUCKING KNOWS?!
13. Plan supposedly succeeds and Lelouch gets killed IN FRONT of his sister and now Suzaku is An Hero. Great job, you committed euthanasia and traumatised his sister once more who was quite content to just live with you anyway. Nice job, Jeebus. Yande Lynne does not approve. And neither does Tsubaki. Subaru would comment but she's you know dating on the internet and we all know that shit happens with anonymity.

14. World Peace?

Or they rebuild enough, Suzaku dies and racism sets in against Brittania and they shoot each other up once more.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by NinjaYali

14. World Peace?

Or they rebuild enough, Suzaku dies and racism sets in against Brittania and they shoot each other up once more.

you forget the even MORE dangerous and even more LIKELY option
Suzaku gets unmasked somehow (even if only after he's dead), the world discovers zero-requiem was nothing more then two people playing god and murdering countless innocents to fool the entire world into following their way of thinking
at which point, nunnaly, the UFN, and anyone else who was involved with zero in any significant way, is persecuted as being part of the conspiracy.
good bye peaceful world

[azul120]

Lelouch couldn't have backed down when Nunnally showed up again, though, because Schneizel would have called him on it.

[Betteroffer]

The whole point of Schneizel revealling Nunally was to try to make Lelouch back down. If Lelouch offered a truce, or agreed to abdicate the throne, Schneizel wouldn't stop him.

[Sanger Zonvolt]

Well finished R2, overall this was a fun series, I'm glad I decided to start watching it. I can see why this series is one of the most popular anime of Japan, not that it has a very well written story, but it has mad appeal, and everything you can ask for out of a mainstream anime. Unique art style, Mecha, entertaining characters, great animation, lots of naked females fanservice.

I have to say I enjoyed R2 moreso then season 1, as it brought forth more focus on Knightmares and Geass, and less on Lelouch's and Suzaku's personal life, though Knightmare battles were good in season 1 as well.

I enjoyed how it showed with Suzaku how hypocritical main character heroes can be, and that alot villains are tragic anti-heroes in Lelouch's case, but showing a cliche mecha story from the villain's point of view, and what motivates him to do what he does.

I was satisfied with the ending, as he succeeded in what he wanted, unlike other villain protagonist like Light Yagami.

[GreenCatra]

Light and Lelouch are comparable in a number of ways - For example, they are both fighting for "Weaker people" (Light killing criminals while Lelouch fights the system), they are both massively arrogant, and both probably have an IQ of 666.

However, Lelouch was a lot more successful than Light ever turned out to be - Light stopped the motion of a few crimes, while Lelouch stopped the motion of the entire world. Also, Lelouch's fall was planned, while Light just completely lost it. ;p

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by GreenCatra

Light and Lelouch are comparable in a number of ways - For example, they are both fighting for "Weaker people" (Light killing criminals while Lelouch fights the system), they are both massively arrogant, and both probably have an IQ of 666.

Light was fighting for those weaker than him?
It seemed more to me like he was fighting for his own ego and nothing else. He might have had some noble ideals before he started actively using the Death Note, but after that, he thought of himself as some kind of "God" who could kill anyone and anything if it suited him, without needing to feel remorse. Unlike Lelouch, he completely ceased showing signs of empathy.

Lelouch and Light are similar on the surface, but at the end of the day, I believe they are very different characters, Lelouch being the more "human" one by far.

[Sol Falling]

As much as people used to rail against the comparisons between Light and Lelouch, while I was rereading Death Note awhile back, one thing really jumped out at me. At a later point in the Death Note manga, Light reveals that in fact he considers killing to be a sin. The gist was that Light dirtied his hands with the sin/burden of killing so that others would not have to--an ideal Lelouch espouses as well. This moral fallacy--of sullying one's self in order to spare others, of being determined to do that--is for me the most instinctively objectionable aspect of both series.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

As much as people used to rail against the comparisons between Light and Lelouch, while I was rereading Death Note awhile back, one thing really jumped out at me. At a later point in the Death Note manga, Light reveals that in fact he considers killing to be a sin. The gist was that Light dirtied his hands with the sin/burden of killing so that others would not have to--an ideal Lelouch espouses as well. This moral fallacy--of sullying one's self in order to spare others, of being determined to do that--is for me the most instinctively objectionable aspect of both series.

Hm, interesting. I only watched the anime, and I remember getting the impression that Light believed killing to be a sin... except if he was the one doing it. What exactly does he say in the manga?

[Sol Falling]

lol, Light pretty much acts that way, but I think that only goes to show how much Light believes his self-sacrifice really is righteousness. As I said though, that particular rereading (my second) was a couple months ago so I don't remember the exact wording/circumstances. The reason it stuck in my mind really was precisely because I realized that the Light/Lelouch comparisons weren't as superficial as I'd always seen them called (though nonetheless, it is true that Light and Lelouch are quite different). I'm sure it was in the second half of the manga, after the timeskip--I actually haven't watched the Death Note anime, but I have to say I really enjoyed rereading it, so you might like to give the manga a go sometime as well.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

lol, Light pretty much acts that way, but I think that only goes to show how much Light believes his self-sacrifice really is righteousness. As I said though, that particular rereading (my second) was a couple months ago so I don't remember the exact wording/circumstances. The reason it stuck in my mind really was precisely because I realized that the Light/Lelouch comparisons weren't as superficial as I'd always seen them called (though nonetheless, it is true that Light and Lelouch are quite different). I'm sure it was in the second half of the manga, after the timeskip--I actually haven't watched the Death Note anime, but I have to say I really enjoyed rereading it, so you might like to give the manga a go sometime as well.

Ah, thank you. I'm lazy when it comes to mangas, but I think I just might~

This self-sacrifice thing especially interests me. They'd still be very different, yeah, but it indeed looks like a noteworthy similarity in that case.

[roriconfan]

Originally Posted by GreenCatra

However, Lelouch was a lot more successful than Light ever turned out to be - Light stopped the motion of a few crimes, while Lelouch stopped the motion of the entire world. Also, Lelouch's fall was planned, while Light just completely lost it. ;p

Well, Light had to either fool his enemies or kill them. Lelouch could just gaze them and make them his slaves; so it was a lot easier for him to have it his way.

[azul120]

Lelouch was always prepared to die at any moment, hence his early tagline. Light thought he was above death, given his God complex. He did not take failure well at all.