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Joeyscraggy · 2012-10-01, 16:04

That was good, i wish i could read it too, because the part with the guns is kind of weird. The only part i could understand was that Kinzo has different models, dating from late XIX century to 1940 i think. I don't know if that's a clue to something but, well. Also, that scene where Ange is contemplating different Kakeras was kind of sad...

Oh, and a related note, I'm starting to think the whole "Kin-chan" from the Ange TIP was canon, considering their relationship, but no to that extend xD

jjblue1 · 2012-10-01, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeyscraggy

That was good, i wish i could read it too, because the part with the guns is kind of weird. The only part i could understand was that Kinzo has different models, dating from late XIX century to 1940 i think. I don't know if that's a clue to something but, well. Also, that scene where Ange is contemplating different Kakeras was kind of sad...

Oh, and a related note, I'm starting to think the whole "Kin-chan" from the Ange TIP was canon, considering their relationship, but no to that extend xD

I think it could also be relevant how some rifles were rather short and there's the whole talk about the bullets... I guess it has to have a meaning.
Maybe it explained why the wounds had to be so horrible to cover up the damage done by the guns?
Face destroyed, stomach cut open... It it was just a single bullet, considering Nanjo is an accomplice, the wound could be covered up more easily but maybe if the gun shoots more bullets at once it's not so easy to hide that many gun wounds so Beato had to use... extreme means...

The good part of EP 8 manga version is it's, as far as I'm involved, a lot more emotionally involving than the novel, at least as of now and focus more on the things I wanted to know and that the novel didn't bother to tell me.

Kiltias · 2012-10-08, 02:09

I think I might have found something in regards to EP 3.

Something I noticed is that this has quite the focus on Chess.

Eva-Beatrice calls herself the King.
Rudolf pinned the Rook and the King.
"Checkmate".
"Moving the King to the Center."

Here's something interesting:
There are only 3 pieces in Chess that can pin.
The Rooks,The Queen and the Bishops.

Here's the deal:
Bishops are also called "Shooters" or "Archers" as well "Hunters" depending on language.

Personally I think its safe to say that Rudolf and Kyrie are the Bishops/Shooters.

However that is where the problem lies.Its impossible to checkmate the King with only 2 Bishops.

In order to checkmate the King with 2 Bishops you NEED a 3rd Piece.
Or in this case a 3rd Person.

But also its impossible for Rooks even then, its more probable they are the Bishops.

And the queen is only singular.

So if Kyrie and Rudolf are the Bishops, its impossible for them to even think they have checkmated the King.

And no it obviously isn't just a joke considering there seems to be a theme of chess involved as well.

At any case, unless a 3rd person helped them, its impossible to assume having checkmated the King.

What I'm saying is that Hideyoshi must have done something as well as he was the 3rd Person along with them.

AuraTwilight · 2012-10-08, 04:10

*claps* Very well done. I'd also like to throw in that the Siestas are quite obviously intended to be Bishops, since they are literally Shooters, Archers, and Hunters.

Kiltias · 2012-10-08, 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

*claps* Very well done. I'd also like to throw in that the Siestas are quite obviously intended to be Bishops, since they are literally Shooters, Archers, and Hunters.

It's also interesting to see how other Chess pieces fit in.

In Medieval times the doctor is always the pawn of the queen.

Pawns often are given the meaning of being easily manipulated or the ones being sacrificed for a larger purpose as well as indicating unimportance and disposability.

But not only that:
Rooks are thought to be charges but also towers.
In Heraldry, French Blazon Charges are referred as Furniture.
This is a bit more difficult IMO as I see the Servants and Nanjo as the pawns, Shannon fits to the Rook but she might as well have undergone Promotion (As in reaching rank 8 on the chessboard.The opposites side) to become a Rook.
Personally I rather go with being a pawn.

Same goes for Kanon in EP 2 trying to protect Jessica.His behaviour was marvelously fitting to that of the Knight.Same as with Shannon though.Might have been a promotion.

As for the King, IMO it's Maria but thats solely based upon her hairband.

Spoiler for Maria - King:

Granted pieces appearance vary but the general look of a king is with a cross at the top.
Would be interesting if Maria is the King.Would mean that Eva couldn't have killed her as its against the rules that Kings move next to another unless Eva-Beatrice isn't actually Eva herself.Instead thats why Maria was killed by Beato.

At any case: Rooks = Furniture might be of high importance as they are very powerful in delivering checkmate and grow even stronger towards the end.

Piece value might also be worth looking into.
The pawn have the very lowest value but are the life of Chess due to their potential. - 1
Knights and Bishops both have a value of 3 but in general Bishops have the higher value.
The comes the rook with 5.
Lastly the Queen with 9.
Realize something?
9 + 5 + 3 + 1 = 18

While its still unfinished:

Spoiler for Umineko Board:

Couldn't find nice Stake images.=/

AuraTwilight · 2012-10-08, 08:08

You are fucking awesome. That's all I have to contribute right now.

RandomAvatarFan · 2012-10-08, 20:38

Going off of what you said about Shkanon being "promoted" pieces, that kind of implies that Yasu herself is a pawn, and that Shkanon are higher ranking pieces. So like, winning the love duel represents one of the pawns reaching that back rank.

Also going off promotions, at first I didn't like your designation of EVA as king, but when I was going to type up my thoughts, I realized how brilliant it was. Eva's diary is, from what we're told, is the one and final truth. Unlocking that diary is the final goal, and the mystery of EVA and the diary is the final mystery of Umineko. Or, that's one way of interpreting the events of EP8.

On a completely unrelated note, earlier this summer I devised a way to play Umineko Chess à la EP5, to include placing random fairy pieces and scribbling on the board. It's not meant to be taken seriously.

rogerpepitone · 2012-10-08, 21:56

I pointed some of Kiltias's points years ago.

The Virgilia vs. Beatrice fight is similar to the game of Maharajah, with Virgilia as the Maharajah.

Eva -> Evatrice is clearly a pawn promoting.

The Siestas are also compared to bishops in Episode 4, with the comment about the Siestas and a mention of how bishops only attack one color.

When Battler meets Beatrice at the end of Episode 4, he compares himself to the white king, and states that there's still one white square on the board: under his feet. It's impossible for the white king to play an entire game on white squares; he starts on a black square.

Cao Ni Ma · 2012-10-09, 07:13

Yeah, I also noticed the chess similarities. Like during the dining scenes people sit in a weird order based on the persons family ranking. This has the side effect of having Battler, the white king face Maria, the black king. Similar to an actual set chess board. The problem is that each side of the table will be missing their rooks. Your idea of seeing the rooks as furniture would explain why they arent by their sides eating.

Another thing is, Battler has a silver (white) cross on his tie and on his top. So there are plenty of symbolism's for him to be the white king.

Wanderer · 2012-10-09, 07:29

Next installment.

It's not the final one as I predicted before. I wanted to go back and translate some of the "omitted" part that I have a source for (regarding Beatrice convincing Krauss and Natsuhi that the bomb is real); however, upon looking into it it was longer than I expected, so I'm postponing it for now. Also, what follows after the end of the story here is what we previously thought was the "intro" and "Dlanor's forward" (they're actually the epilogue; the cause for this confusion was that LyricalAura's original source had the relevant pages in the wrong order). I'll be doing some work with that, too.

However, this release is probably where the meat of the story is. Enjoy.

Spoiler for Discovering the crime scenes & the 4th Twilight.:

Renall · 2012-10-09, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiltias

However that is where the problem lies.Its impossible to checkmate the King with only 2 Bishops.

In order to checkmate the King with 2 Bishops you NEED a 3rd Piece.
Or in this case a 3rd Person.

But also its impossible for Rooks even then, its more probable they are the Bishops.

And the queen is only singular.

Are you counting the King here or not? Because if you are, I hate to burst your bubble, but it is entirely possible to achieve checkmate with King + 2 Opposite-Color Bishops, King + 1 Rook, and King + 1 Queen. In fact, these are the most common types of checkmate. The only unwinnable setups due to lack of material are a lone King, King + 1 Bishop (or any number of same-color Bishops), and King + 1 Knight. King + 2 Knights can't force a checkmate but can achieve it.

Now if you don't mean the King is present, then it shouldn't be possible, although this also makes the joke less interesting because one generally assumes the King needs to be in position for a checkmate and most wouldn't assume otherwise. But then that metaphor brings with it the implication that if the King (Battler?) were present, checkmate would be achieved, as there would exist "sufficient material" to trap the opposing King. Who would also have to be present, so...

Kiltias · 2012-10-09, 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renall

Are you counting the King here or not?

Nope.

And I got something else if I may.....
Am I reading too much into this?
1 and 2 - When spotting Leviathan and Belphegor
3 - Shooting at Belphegor
4 - Same
5 - Kyrie shooting at Leviathan
6 - Kyrie killing Leviathan
7 - Rudolf killing Belphegor
8 - Kyrie/Rudolf shooting at Eva.

Amount of shots fired during their fight against the stakes.
Isn't that the same amount of shots that killed everyone in EP7?

As in:
The Illusion of them vs the stakes = them shooting everyone.
Kyrie and Rudolf killed by the Siestas = Eva killing them.

Last thing cause I don't wanna annoy people.
Scorpion charm.
Protected Natsuhi in EP1.
Of course I can't read through the entire thread so scuse me if it already was mentioned.

Could it have been that Natsuhi was intended to die in the first twilight?
Still don't get if there were 5 or 6.

Here's the deal though, I don't think Yasu gave a single fuck about the charm much rather where it came from.
Its no protection against magic but sparing Natsuhi protected Marias believe in magic as killing her despite the charm would probably have upset her.

Just a thought.

Drifloon · 2012-10-09, 13:05

The part with Shannon and Beatrice still seems weird to me. The main episodes all portray Shannon and Kanon as rebelling against Beatrice, which suggested that there was still some part of Yasu that didn't want to follow Beato's plan. But the way this is written suggests that all the personalities were okay with it, implying that all parts of Yasu were completely resolved to carry out the ceremony. It's a strange inconsistency.

Edit: Actually...come to think of it, Shannon and Kanon are only shown rebelling when Beato tries to kill George and/or Jessica, right? Maybe if Beatrice never tries to kill either of those two, then she never experiences that internal struggle between her personalities.

Edit2: Actually, never mind, I forgot about the scene with Kanon in EP1. Which is particularly weird since he says that he resolved to rebel if Beatrice killed Shannon and left him alive. How strange.

GabrieliosP · 2012-10-09, 13:08

According to a R07 interview, Yasu went inside Natsuhi's room, saw the charm and then went back painting the door to make it look like Beatrice tried to go there but couldn't enter.

So yeah, Natsuhi was intended for EP1 first twilight and Yasu spared her because of the scorpion charm.

rogerpepitone · 2012-10-09, 14:41

Is it mentioned whether Natsuhi's door opens into the hall or into the room?

In Episode 1, Natsuhi doesn't notice that her door's been vandalized until she leaves. That would make perfect sense if it opens into the hall, but is very odd if it opens into her room.

In Episode 2, Gohda is mentioned as throwing his weight against the door to Natsuhi's room to keep it shut. This makes sense if the door opens into the room, but not at all if it opens into the hall. (This is a fantasy scene, though.)

It's easy for Beatrice to notice the scorpion charm on the doorknob if the door opens into the hall, but extremely difficult if it opens into the room.

Kiltias · 2012-10-09, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by GabrieliosP

According to a R07 interview, Yasu went inside Natsuhi's room, saw the charm and then went back painting the door to make it look like Beatrice tried to go there but couldn't enter.

So yeah, Natsuhi was intended for EP1 first twilight and Yasu spared her because of the scorpion charm.

Isn't that interesting....

If she wouldn't have held it we'd have the beginning of a pattern.

Natsuhi,Krauss,Kyrie,Rudolf - the people at the side of Battlers dinner table side.
Battler held the charm protecting him.
Jessica was believed to hold one as well.

I always thought the 1st Twilight is weird.Seems too random IMO.

GabrieliosP · 2012-10-09, 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogerpepitone

Is it mentioned whether Natsuhi's door opens into the hall or into the room?

In Episode 1, Natsuhi doesn't notice that her door's been vandalized until she leaves. That would make perfect sense if it opens into the hall, but is very odd if it opens into her room.

In Episode 2, Gohda is mentioned as throwing his weight against the door to Natsuhi's room to keep it shut. This makes sense if the door opens into the room, but not at all if it opens into the hall. (This is a fantasy scene, though.)

It's easy for Beatrice to notice the scorpion charm on the doorknob if the door opens into the hall, but extremely difficult if it opens into the room.

Interesting. This can mean two things:

- Consistency error. Sometimes author can't keep little details relevant to the plot the same across a story.

- It's a hint that Yasu & Gohda were fooling George in that scene.

Give me a second while I rewatch both scenes in the anime to see if they have the same controversy.

EDIT: Anime episode 2 (aka EP1): door opens to the outside.
Anime episode 10 (aka EP2): Door opens to the inside.
I'm betting on consistency error.

Renall · 2012-10-09, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogerpepitone

Is it mentioned whether Natsuhi's door opens into the hall or into the room?

...

It's easy for Beatrice to notice the scorpion charm on the doorknob if the door opens into the hall, but extremely difficult if it opens into the room.

The bedrooms in the house have chain locks, or at least some of them do. It's reasonable to assume all the doorframes are the same for most bedrooms, and thus that the doors all open the same way.

A chain lock does not work on a door that opens outward into the hallway. The chain would either not function or could easily be unlocked by reaching in and slowly closing the door until the chain can be moved. Or just ripping the door open enough to tear the chain support off the doorframe.

Basically, all the doors in the mansion have to open inward. There's no way Beatrice would've noticed the scorpion charm if she wasn't specifically looking for it.

GabrieliosP · 2012-10-09, 15:53

It's really strange. For reference sake, here's the part of the interview that says about the door:

K = KEIYA (interviewer)
R = Ryuukishi07

Quote:

K: When I return to past Episodes now, there are many scenes that raise my interest. For example the scorpion charm in EP1.

R: Ah, the good old times.

K: It really seems like there was an enactment on the gameboard that Natsuhi’s room could not be entered because of the scorpion charm.

R: Of course, if we assume that the culprit entered the room once. The culprit entered the room with the intent to kill Natsuhi, but looking at the door found the scorpion charm dangling from the knob. And when remembering that the rule was created that “rooms guarded by the symbol of the scorpion cannot be entered by witches”, left the room unable to murder her. And then, as a sign that somebody tried but was unable to enter, left the marks with paint on the door as if someone scratched at it.

K: Is that the truth behind that scene?

R: And when I asked you about the person who knew about that rule concerning the charm and could commit the crime…

K: There is only one, isn’t there?! I was doubting that there was a chance she overheard how Natsuhi accepted the charm on the corridor, but I never thought about the fact that she could just go into the room.

R: But she has a master key, didn’t she? And with that another person, outside those who were planned, had to be killed.

K: You can also think of it as being connected to the camouflage murders. To have even just one person less killed is impossible.

R: The real culprit created so many rules, also in connection to the murders. And there were many rules which were selfmade and also restricting.

Cao Ni Ma · 2012-10-09, 16:35

Well, assume that Beatrice was really going to kill Natsuhi right there. Would she just leave the door open or will she lock it behind her? It would be pretty easy to spot something in that situation.

What makes me wonder is the idea of having the victims in on the show. If she really intended to kill Natsuhi that night, she saw the talisman and said "Welp, change of plan. Hey Nats you know that thing about going to the shack and playing dead? Well you aint gonna be part of it. Here's how things are going to roll now."

2012-10-08, 04:10	Link #30784
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	claps Very well done. I'd also like to throw in that the Siestas are quite obviously intended to be Bishops, since they are literally Shooters, Archers, and Hunters. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-10-08, 08:08	Link #30786
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	You are fucking awesome. That's all I have to contribute right now. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-10-08, 20:38	Link #30787
RandomAvatarFan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011	Going off of what you said about Shkanon being "promoted" pieces, that kind of implies that Yasu herself is a pawn, and that Shkanon are higher ranking pieces. So like, winning the love duel represents one of the pawns reaching that back rank. Also going off promotions, at first I didn't like your designation of EVA as king, but when I was going to type up my thoughts, I realized how brilliant it was. Eva's diary is, from what we're told, is the one and final truth. Unlocking that diary is the final goal, and the mystery of EVA and the diary is the final mystery of Umineko. Or, that's one way of interpreting the events of EP8. On a completely unrelated note, earlier this summer I devised a way to play Umineko Chess à la EP5, to include placing random fairy pieces and scribbling on the board. It's not meant to be taken seriously. __________________ Without love this picture cannot be seen.

2012-10-08, 21:56	Link #30788
rogerpepitone Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008	I pointed some of Kiltias's points years ago. The Virgilia vs. Beatrice fight is similar to the game of Maharajah, with Virgilia as the Maharajah. Eva -> Evatrice is clearly a pawn promoting. The Siestas are also compared to bishops in Episode 4, with the comment about the Siestas and a mention of how bishops only attack one color. When Battler meets Beatrice at the end of Episode 4, he compares himself to the white king, and states that there's still one white square on the board: under his feet. It's impossible for the white king to play an entire game on white squares; he starts on a black square. __________________ Umineko notes: Various (1-4) Ep 3 (w/ red text) Ep 4 (w/ red text) . My projects: Higurashi Daybreak - in need of translator Higurashi DS Translation - in need of translator Never7: The End of Infinity - Finished! I/O: In progress 12Riven: In progress

2012-10-09, 07:29	Link #30790
Wanderer Goat Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima	Next installment. It's not the final one as I predicted before. I wanted to go back and translate some of the "omitted" part that I have a source for (regarding Beatrice convincing Krauss and Natsuhi that the bomb is real); however, upon looking into it it was longer than I expected, so I'm postponing it for now. Also, what follows after the end of the story here is what we previously thought was the "intro" and "Dlanor's forward" (they're actually the epilogue; the cause for this confusion was that LyricalAura's original source had the relevant pages in the wrong order). I'll be doing some work with that, too. However, this release is probably where the meat of the story is. Enjoy. Spoiler for Discovering the crime scenes & the 4th Twilight.: "Kanon-kun! Kanon-kun!! UwaaaAaaaaaaAaaaa!!" "Jessica! Calm down!! Don't look! Don't come in!!" (Natsuhi) "...Un... believable... Damnit......" "With this... the suspicion that the servants might be culprits has been cleared up. ...Hasn't it, Natsuhi-obasan?" George sends a cold glare at Natsuhi, who had suspected the servants and driven them from the guesthouse. "How is it, Doctor Nanjo...?" "...I can't tell the exact cause, but I can tell he's dead... One thing certain is that this isn't the fatal wound." There was an awful wound on Kanon's knee, and a bloodied stake on the floor. There's no doubt that the culprit pierced Kanon's knee. But, it's hard to think that stabbing a knee would lead to death. ...He was probably killed another way, but Nanjo couldn't grasp what it was with a cursory examination. "In any case, we should tread lightly at the crime scene, for the police. If we carelessly disturb it it could hinder their investigation." (Nanjo) "...I agree. We should probably not do anything more in this room... More importantly, I'm concerned about the key to the VIP room that was inside the envelope." (Krauss) "...I don't want to think about it... but the VIP room might also..." "............Let's go see." "...What is all this... If we hadn't driven them from the guesthouse......" Krauss hangs his head and pulls at his hair. "Sorry, Kanon... for not being able to trust you and the others... To be unable to trust in my subordinates... I have no right to stand above other people." "Kanon-kun was staked in... the knee...?" "Kihihihihihi. It's the seventh twilight. Gouge the knee and kill." "......Which means... what about the forth, fifth, and sixth twilights? ...Doesn't it mean that at least 3 other people have already been killed...?" "Ca, calm down George-aniki... We still don't know that for sure..." "Kr, Krauss-ojisan, let's hurry to the VIP room!" "R..right. But just a minute. We can't leave the broken window this way. Let's close the shutter..." "Kanon-kun... Kanon-kun... ...Mom, can I at least... see his face one last time...?" "I understand how you feel... but we won't disturb the crime scene any further. ...We have to leave it as is to insure they find the culprit. So from now on just pray... for his happiness in the next world..." "UUuUUuuuu..............." And so they all head to the 2nd floor VIP room. Then to Natsuhi's bedroom. Then to the 3rd floor waiting room. Meanwhile, Kanon quietly sneaks out of the guest room. He's got master keys, so he can just leave strait out the door and then lock it. Kanon's even got two master keys, so he can leave on behind in the guest room. Of course there is a concern that after the epitaph murders are complete, the crime scenes will all be investigated again. For that situation, so that Kanon's missing corpse won't create an inconsistency, the culprit will have to perform some action that takes Kanon's corpse away. Kanon's disappearing corpse can become the trigger for another mystery. Kanon heads towards the chapel, and there rendezvous with Shannon. Then he gives his master key to Shannon. "...Thank you. How was the assignment?" "I was just sleeping. It was a lot easier than carrying sacks of fertilizer." "Good work, Kanon. With this, your role is over." (Beatrice) "...Thank you, Beatrice-sama. ...Bye, neesan. See you on the next game board." "OK, see you on the next game board." Beatrice waves her cane, and then Kanon's body sublimates into mist and disappears into her smoking pipe. "Alright. So you are to decorate the last link of the closed room chain." "Yes, I shall." "I will grant you the forth twilight. It's a very merciful twilight." "Thank you very much." Beato and Shannon enter the chapel. The gloomy, solemn chapel was engulfed in nothing but the sound of wind and rain. "...Where would be good...?" "How about behind the altar?" "Understood." Between the stained glass and the altar in front of it there was a crevice no more than 20cm wide. The crevice was sufficiently deep. Shannon had in advance prepared a metal dumbbell tied to a rope. And then she carefully tested hanging and lowering the dumbbell into the crevice. It went in with no problems. The weight of the dumbbell was ideal. "How is it? Any problems?" "No, it's fine. There are no problems." Then let's start the stake make-up. It's pretty hard to stain your stake with real blood, after all. She pulls some painting materials out of her bag. It's the exact same stuff used in movies and the like. And so she applied blood make-up to the end of the stake. "A cinch. How are your preparations?" "Yes, I'm ready." Shannon tied a pistol to the end of the rope opposite to that of the dumbbell. And then she carefully lowered the dumbbell into the crevice between the altar and the stained glass window. The middle of the rope was caught against the corner of the altar. Since the dumbbell was heavier than the pistol, as soon as she lets go, everything, gun and all, will be pulled into the crevice. "Does it look like it'll fall in?" "Yes. There are no problems." "......Good." Sannon hands the pistol tied to the rope to Beato. And Beato hands Shannon the fake-bloodied stake. Shannon gently presses the stake against her own forehead. Beato also puts the pistol to Shannon's forehead, aligning it with the stake. "You have no regrets?" "...None. It is all as Beatrice-sama wills." "It's too bad. ...If someone had solved the mystery of the epitaph... you would have finished alive. "There's no way such an incomprehensible mystery could be solved. ...From the beginning it was a bet without any hope for success. "Yet I still bet. ...because if the miracle were granted, it would truly be magic." "......In this world of poison-filled humans, there is no magic nor miracles. ...Beatrice-sama, as the one true witch... ...you are the only existence that can bring magic to this world." "That's right. ...I am the Golden Witch, Beatrice. Rest in peace. The next time you awaken, it will be in The Golden Land. Your beloved George will also be there." "...Thank you very much, Beatrice-sama..." It was a weak sound but, inside the chapel where only wind and rain could be heard, there was a faint echo. And Shannon was tranquilly looking up at the ceiling... then she suddenly collapsed like a puppet that had lost its strings. Beato lets go of the pistol in her hand. And when she does, the pistol, pulled by the heavy dumbbell, is swiftly swallowed up by the darkness of the crevice, disappearing with a heavy metallic clank. All that's left in front of the altar is Shannon's body with a bloody forehead, and, strewn on the floor beside her, a stake for gouging sacrifices. "...Indeed. This way it looks as though the stake came out of her forehead when she fell." And with another wave of her cane golden butterflies took the shape of an envelope placed next to Shannon. Inside was entrusted the first key, the key to the guest room. And so the closed room chain is complete. The five people all with the their master keys and the keys to each successive room, were all locked up in their own closed rooms. With another wave of her cane, she leaves a letter inside the envelope. It says something about Kanon's corpse being borrowed as another sacrifice for the ceremony. And so they'll rush back to the guest room. But at that time the guest room will have long been completely empty. They'll never be able to see the face of Kanon's corpse again. "Okaay... with this, the epitaph murders are over. What d'you think, Battler? I hope you enjoy my mystery. ...Kukkukukuku, hahhahhahahahahahahahaha!!!" For the story concerning the disappearance of Kanon's body, I'll attribute it to the already summoned Flauros. Even after Kanon's death, his soul will battle against Beato and Flauros. But it will be useless and he'll lose, and what's more is his corpse will be swallowed up by Flauros. Something like that. And with that, this game's epitaph serial murder incident comes to a close. All that's left is to rewrite it into a fantasy story with Flaurous as the culprit. That's the end of "Untitled of the Golden Witch". What follows is the discussion between Dlanor and Beato that we used to think was the introduction, and then Dlanor's epilogue (previously misnamed Dlanor's forward). Last edited by Wanderer; 2012-10-09 at 08:24.

2012-10-01, 16:04	Link #30781
Joeyscraggy Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2012	That was good, i wish i could read it too, because the part with the guns is kind of weird. The only part i could understand was that Kinzo has different models, dating from late XIX century to 1940 i think. I don't know if that's a clue to something but, well. Also, that scene where Ange is contemplating different Kakeras was kind of sad... Oh, and a related note, I'm starting to think the whole "Kin-chan" from the Ange TIP was canon, considering their relationship, but no to that extend xD

2012-10-08, 02:09	Link #30783
Kiltias Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012	I think I might have found something in regards to EP 3. Something I noticed is that this has quite the focus on Chess. Eva-Beatrice calls herself the King. Rudolf pinned the Rook and the King. "Checkmate". "Moving the King to the Center." Here's something interesting: There are only 3 pieces in Chess that can pin. The Rooks,The Queen and the Bishops. Here's the deal: Bishops are also called "Shooters" or "Archers" as well "Hunters" depending on language. Personally I think its safe to say that Rudolf and Kyrie are the Bishops/Shooters. However that is where the problem lies.Its impossible to checkmate the King with only 2 Bishops. In order to checkmate the King with 2 Bishops you NEED a 3rd Piece. Or in this case a 3rd Person. But also its impossible for Rooks even then, its more probable they are the Bishops. And the queen is only singular. So if Kyrie and Rudolf are the Bishops, its impossible for them to even think they have checkmated the King. And no it obviously isn't just a joke considering there seems to be a theme of chess involved as well. At any case, unless a 3rd person helped them, its impossible to assume having checkmated the King. What I'm saying is that Hideyoshi must have done something as well as he was the 3rd Person along with them.

2012-10-09, 07:13	Link #30789
Cao Ni Ma Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010	Yeah, I also noticed the chess similarities. Like during the dining scenes people sit in a weird order based on the persons family ranking. This has the side effect of having Battler, the white king face Maria, the black king. Similar to an actual set chess board. The problem is that each side of the table will be missing their rooks. Your idea of seeing the rooks as furniture would explain why they arent by their sides eating. Another thing is, Battler has a silver (white) cross on his tie and on his top. So there are plenty of symbolism's for him to be the white king.

2012-10-09, 13:05	Link #30793
Drifloon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011	The part with Shannon and Beatrice still seems weird to me. The main episodes all portray Shannon and Kanon as rebelling against Beatrice, which suggested that there was still some part of Yasu that didn't want to follow Beato's plan. But the way this is written suggests that all the personalities were okay with it, implying that all parts of Yasu were completely resolved to carry out the ceremony. It's a strange inconsistency. Edit: Actually...come to think of it, Shannon and Kanon are only shown rebelling when Beato tries to kill George and/or Jessica, right? Maybe if Beatrice never tries to kill either of those two, then she never experiences that internal struggle between her personalities. Edit2: Actually, never mind, I forgot about the scene with Kanon in EP1. Which is particularly weird since he says that he resolved to rebel if Beatrice killed Shannon and left him alive. How strange. Last edited by Drifloon; 2012-10-09 at 13:24.

2012-10-09, 13:08	Link #30794
GabrieliosP 黄金の魔女 Golden Witch Join Date: May 2012 Location: Natal-RN, Brazil Age: 28	According to a R07 interview, Yasu went inside Natsuhi's room, saw the charm and then went back painting the door to make it look like Beatrice tried to go there but couldn't enter. So yeah, Natsuhi was intended for EP1 first twilight and Yasu spared her because of the scorpion charm. __________________ "Revival of the Golden Witch" and "Dolly's Dreaming Awakening -Cradle Song-" Development Blog "Ougon Musou Kyoku" PT-BR Wiki

2012-10-09, 14:41	Link #30795
rogerpepitone Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008	Is it mentioned whether Natsuhi's door opens into the hall or into the room? In Episode 1, Natsuhi doesn't notice that her door's been vandalized until she leaves. That would make perfect sense if it opens into the hall, but is very odd if it opens into her room. In Episode 2, Gohda is mentioned as throwing his weight against the door to Natsuhi's room to keep it shut. This makes sense if the door opens into the room, but not at all if it opens into the hall. (This is a fantasy scene, though.) It's easy for Beatrice to notice the scorpion charm on the doorknob if the door opens into the hall, but extremely difficult if it opens into the room. __________________ Umineko notes: Various (1-4) Ep 3 (w/ red text) Ep 4 (w/ red text) . My projects: Higurashi Daybreak - in need of translator Higurashi DS Translation - in need of translator Never7: The End of Infinity - Finished! I/O: In progress 12Riven: In progress

2012-10-09, 16:35	Link #30800
Cao Ni Ma Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010	Well, assume that Beatrice was really going to kill Natsuhi right there. Would she just leave the door open or will she lock it behind her? It would be pretty easy to spot something in that situation. What makes me wonder is the idea of having the victims in on the show. If she really intended to kill Natsuhi that night, she saw the talisman and said "Welp, change of plan. Hey Nats you know that thing about going to the shack and playing dead? Well you aint gonna be part of it. Here's how things are going to roll now."