Character discussion - Makoto

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

Spoiler for Canvas 2 ~Niji-iro no Sketch~ for comparison purposes:

I don't like him but he is not an ass. In my views he's not really that different from Hiroki in Canvas 2. Of course Hiroki didn't grope and want sex, but their actions are somewhat similar. He ran away from the girl he promised to be with (and originally liked) and picked someone else.

If you've read my posts in the general discussion thread then you would know that I hated episode two because of that date where Makoto just wants some action. Now I don't really mind, so maybe I'm getting used to his pervertedness. It's bound to happen.

huh.. what?! I don't intend to flame, but did we watch the same show? oO

Spoiler for canvas2:

No, Hiroki wasn't doing the player, and he NEVER promise to be with ANYONE. Also, be aware that Hiroki didn't love either girl directly, but his feelings were slowly blossoming. nothing set in stone, especially late episodes, with obvious hints for Elis, and a static situation with Kiri, which was so slow and running in circle that it was clear enough that despite kiri's confession, their relationship was too awkward.

Absolutely no cheating or whatsoever.

as for Makoto, yes Sekai is indeed a factor, but does it make the mistake equal to his idiocy?
I beg to differ: Makoto is simply superficial, and can't overcome his horminal rage. I'm even wondering if Makoto wouldn't be attracted by Sekai even if she didn't kiss him or the like. (play the game, and you can tell how his twisted mind can lead you to...)

You do realize that many couples can be fine, while both persons are seducted by other persons as well? how so? well simply because they have WILLPOWER.

and High school isn't a fair arguement here, because even if guys at that period have hard time to deal with hormones and the like, it require basic COMMON sense to actually care of the other's feelings ans so forth.
The worst thing is episode 5, Makoto having no guilt despite Sekai repeats he already has kotonoha.

Makoto lives only with his present desire, and doesn't see anything in the middle and long term.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

Spoiler for Canvas 2 ~Niji-iro no Sketch~ for comparison purposes:

I don't like him but he is not an ass. In my views he's not really that different from Hiroki in Canvas 2. Of course Hiroki didn't grope and want sex, but their actions are somewhat similar. He ran away from the girl he promised to be with (and originally liked) and picked someone else.

If you've read my posts in the general discussion thread then you would know that I hated episode two because of that date where Makoto just wants some action. Now I don't really mind, so maybe I'm getting used to his pervertedness. It's bound to happen.

my head hurts...

you really need to pay more attention to the story in that case...makato and hiroki have nothing in common even with their give similar promises (wTH even that line is a lie he has nothing in common with this sulg...)

Spoiler for canvas 2:

1) hiroki never promised anything...his love was taken away!

2) how can he 2 time kiri when they didnt have a relationship in the first place?

3) well if this is the case then you are saying that sekai is playing elis' role right? WTF! since when has elis pushed him anywhere near kiri?

4) he ran away for a really true reason...(well i say run away but it never started) whereas makoto is just an asshole who wants sex...

there just isnt any comparing for makoto as in his case he is a total jerk...i think the only person who would even come close to a slight comparison is taka from kimi nozomu ~

[KholdStare]

Spoiler for more comparison:

Yes indeed we watched the same show. Nothing was promised? What about that Christmas promise? The bottom line is they were in the same situation (uncomfortable relationship getting nowhere) and they chose the other girl. Yes Hiroki and Kirri didn't date, but they still had a relationship. Elis certainly didn't push him or anything, but like Sekai, she let Hiroki know of her feelings.

4) he ran away for a really true reason...(well i say run away but it never started) whereas makoto is just an asshole who wants sex...

And that is exactly my point. The two motives are similar yet the driving forces are completely different. As I said in my original post I don't like the way Makoto acts, but I like bringing up an interesting point that both of them broke a girl's heart and for different reasons we really hate him or think he justified himself.

My posts were nothing more than what I force myself to believe so that I could continue watching this anime. Please don't think that I'm trying to change your opinions, because I am not. It's just my own unique view of things because I always want to cut the main character some slack.

[Deathkillz]

^ canvas spoiler ~

Spoiler:

actually thinking again i dont see the "promise" as being relevant anymore ~ what we see here is something totally unofficial for hiroki whereas it is not the case for makoto...i can see where you are going with this but i dont think it is a comparison ~ for makoto and kotonoha's relationship it is fact that makoto is dating with kotonoha which means that makoto's act on cheating on kotonoha can be judge...but as for hiroki and kiri nothing has been confirmed throughout the series ~ hiroki isnt attached to kiri with a red string whereas it is different for makoto and kotonoha and hence he can change his mind any time he wants (not that its a good thing)
but the point here is that he did not have any kind of indepth relationship hence why kiri pretty much accepted it as fact in the end...not so much the case for kotonoha i should guess if your boyfriend just dumps you out of the blue...

[Ashlotte]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

and High school isn't a fair arguement here, because even if guys at that period have hard time to deal with hormones and the like, it require basic COMMON sense to actually care of the other's feelings ans so forth.
The worst thing is episode 5, Makoto having no guilt despite Sekai repeats he already has kotonoha.

Referring to makoto and common sense in the same breath feels like one helluva oxymoron.

Ah the boys just a danger because unlike his moron friend he doesn't just stop at thinking with his d*** and ogling women...He takes it that step further. Passion and craving physical intimacy can be a beautiful thing if its backed by love, but I think that concepts abit too advanced for makoto right now hah. For now I think his emotional maturity level is around the "OMG BEWBZ" point.

I'd love for his character to experience some growth during the series and shed his less admirable traits, but from the tone of everyone on this board it doesn't feel like thats going to happen.

[AvatarST]

I dunno.

It'd be silly if he acts like a moron throughout the whole series, then he does -one- good thing in the end and we're supposed to look at him like a hero. I've seen that happen in other shows and to be honest I find it quite lame.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

I dunno.

It'd be silly if he acts like a moron throughout the whole series, then he does -one- good thing in the end and we're supposed to look at him like a hero. I've seen that happen in other shows and to be honest I find it quite lame.

My only hope for Motoko at this point is that he does go through a period of growth where he starts to think about others feelings and not just his own. It would be pretty boring if he stayed the same way through the series and destroy my faith in man

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

I dunno.

It'd be silly if he acts like a moron throughout the whole series, then he does -one- good thing in the end and we're supposed to look at him like a hero. I've seen that happen in other shows and to be honest I find it quite lame.

well maybe not a hero but a better person...though it's still no excuse to forgive him if he leaves kotonoha in a mental hospital

[AvatarST]

I don't mean that though, of course he'll have to redeem himself...somehow.

Just that I've grown a bit tired of leads acting like utter douches throughout the entire story, and then because they get one thing right at the end, we're meant to think they're amazing, and everyone moves on, and they're all friends and happy after ever. A little too unrealistic, methinks. Not that I want a sad ending, I'm mostly complaining about the common leads, I guess, but I gotta admit we've been getting some decent ones lately; of course, Makoto is down there with the worst...

@Deathkillz - Tear is amazing. I'm playing ToTA, my first playthrough, but I plan to go on to unknown and do everything. Tear and Jade are my favourite characters, for different reasons. Jade's such an ass he's just hilarious.

[Aceywacey]

I'm even wondering if Makoto wouldn't be attracted by Sekai even if she didn't kiss him or the like. (play the game, and you can tell how his twisted mind can lead you to...)

Well, we'll never know since in the game, teh kiss happens regardless. Anyways, the game is really a different universe from the anime.

You do realize that many couples can be fine, while both persons are seducted by other persons as well? how so? well simply because they have WILLPOWER.

If a person has to resort to willpower to avoid cheating, I'd say their current partner is the wrong one for them. If you really love someone, then anyone other than your partner should not have the power to seduct you.

The worst thing is episode 5, Makoto having no guilt despite Sekai repeats he already has kotonoha.

In his mind, he doesn't like Kotonoha anymore, and has realised that he loves Sekai (Witness his bored sighing face whenever he has to interact with Kotonoha in episode 5). I say "loves" because he actually says "Sekai ga suki." Or at least in his mind he thinks he loves Sekai.

This is probably the reason why he feels no guilt.

Makoto lives only with his present desire, and doesn't see anything in the middle and long term.

If Makoto falls out of love with Sekai and comes back to Kotonoha this will be true. As for planning for the future, young people generally don't do that.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Aceywacey

If a person has to resort to willpower to avoid cheating, I'd say their current partner is the wrong one for them. If you really love someone, then anyone other than your partner should not have the power to seduct you.

Actually, what i mean is many people just have another affair, because they are attracted only for sex and anything of that sort. Most of the time, either that person is weak enough and doesn't confess/break up, or "still love that person somehow".
Yes, it looks extremely stupid, but many persons just can't withstand the desire, and just jump at the occasion(s), even if they heart belong to someone else, and this is of course, mainly a man's problem.
I don't pretend that men, even in love, are weak enough to get tempted by any gorgeous figure, but reasons behind "cheating" are most of the time of that type.


The problem i see here is basically that Makoto is hardly in love with any of the 2 girls. maybe having more affinities with Sekai, but without the training, things would turn a bit differently.

In his mind, he doesn't like Kotonoha anymore, and has realised that he loves Sekai (Witness his bored sighing face whenever he has to interact with Kotonoha in episode 5). I say "loves" because he actually says "Sekai ga suki." Or at least in his mind he thinks he loves Sekai.

This is probably the reason why he feels no guilt.

The problem with Makoto's words is basically that he feels attracted by kotonoha and soon, it has a "bigger" attraction to sekai.

Of course, i believe he shouldn't feel guilt to have "changed" his feelings, since it can't be helped. My problem is basically that he reazlied only now, and doesn't even break up with kotonoha first.

He was just jumping on sekai, without thinking of the consequences.

If Makoto falls out of love with Sekai and comes back to Kotonoha this will be true. As for planning for the future, young people generally don't do that.

He doesn't need to be in love with anyone to do "that".
Episode 4 was enough: he didn't really have romantic feelings for sekai first, and became horny during this training. Of course, the training wasn't really innoncent, but OTOH, he just followed his desires, and didn't think of his current situation, nor the possible aftermath, until his cellphone rang.

[AvatarST]

Originally Posted by Aceywacey

If a person has to resort to willpower to avoid cheating, I'd say their current partner is the wrong one for them. If you really love someone, then anyone other than your partner should not have the power to seduct you.

I strongly disagree, being in love doesn't mean you become entirely oblivious to the opposite gender. You can be just plain not interested in someone but that does not mean you can't find anyone else physically attractive, and that you should resist them should they try to pull anything off.

Of course, in real life, it's hard to find a girl actually seducing you unless you somehow worked to get there in which case it'd be your fault - but my point still stands.

Basically, although this is an awful generalization, it's not too odd for men to cheat for sexual desires, while when girls cheat they do it, for the most part, when they're unhappy with their current partner. It can be justified or not, but that's how I think it is.

Originally Posted by Aceywacey

In his mind, he doesn't like Kotonoha anymore, and has realised that he loves Sekai (Witness his bored sighing face whenever he has to interact with Kotonoha in episode 5). I say "loves" because he actually says "Sekai ga suki." Or at least in his mind he thinks he loves Sekai.

This is probably the reason why he feels no guilt.

It doesn't matter if he doesn't feel any guilt because he "loves" her. If he had half a brain he should be able to tell that cheating and lying to someone who did nothing to deserve it is being a jackass. If on top of that he thinks he's somehow exempt from feeling any guilt, he's even lower than I thought I guess.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Aceywacey

In his mind, he doesn't like Kotonoha anymore, and has realised that he loves Sekai (Witness his bored sighing face whenever he has to interact with Kotonoha in episode 5). I say "loves" because he actually says "Sekai ga suki." Or at least in his mind he thinks he loves Sekai.

This is probably the reason why he feels no guilt.

which isnt anything to be proud of by any means...but for myself im still pondering if it really is love and not just overwhelming sexual impulses...until i get more proof that he really is in love with sekai i am still 50-50 on the matter...

Originally Posted by Aceywacey

If Makoto falls out of love with Sekai and comes back to Kotonoha this will be true. As for planning for the future, young people generally don't do that.

do you honestly think that makoto is planning for the future? i can see him getting bored with sekai sooner of later then moving over to kotonoha AGAIN...this is the reason why i say that there is less chance for him to tell kotonoha to break up with him seen as she is acting like a safety net/2nd choice if sekai doesnt work out...

Originally Posted by AvatarST

I strongly disagree, being in love doesn't mean you become entirely oblivious to the opposite gender. You can be just plain not interested in someone but that does not mean you can't find anyone else physically attractive, and that you should resist them should they try to pull anything off.

Of course, in real life, it's hard to find a girl actually seducing you unless you somehow worked to get there in which case it'd be your fault - but my point still stands.

Basically, although this is an awful generalization, it's not too odd for men to cheat for sexual desires, while when girls cheat they do it, for the most part, when they're unhappy with their current partner. It can be justified or not, but that's how I think it is.

i agree...might very well be a sexist view but it is true in most cases (men are dogs afterall )

Originally Posted by AvatarST

It doesn't matter if he doesn't feel any guilt because he "loves" her. If he had half a brain he should be able to tell that cheating and lying to someone who did nothing to deserve it is being a jackass. If on top of that he thinks he's somehow exempt from feeling any guilt, he's even lower than I thought I guess.

well he just doesnt care at that moment in time...as long as he gets sex hes willing to do anything *sigh*

[Echoes]

If would be pretty hard for Makoto to make amends, since he did this willingly and was completely aware of the consequences. It wasn't a spur of the moment thing, he knew what he was doing, and he knew how his current girlfriend would react if she'd find out. It is inexcusable. Whether or not he loves Sekai, it really makes no differences as to whether or not his actions were justifiable. Saying stuff like "I don't care about her anymore", makes me wonder if he's got a conscience at all.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Echoes

If would be pretty hard for Makoto to make amends, since he did this willingly and was completely aware of the consequences. It wasn't a spur of the moment thing, he knew what he was doing, and he knew how his current girlfriend would react if she'd find out. It is inexcusable. Whether or not he loves Sekai, it really makes no differences as to whether or not his actions were justifiable. Saying stuff like "I don't care about her anymore", makes me wonder if he's got a conscience at all.

The sad thing is i dont even think Motoko knows what the consequences are. Also, hes so clueless its possible that the fact hes cheated twice has escaped his mind. I dont even think that he knows what hes done is wrong and thats makes it all the sadder.

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

The sad thing is i dont even think Motoko knows what the consequences are. Also, hes so clueless its possible that the fact hes cheated twice has escaped his mind. I dont even think that he knows what hes done is wrong and thats makes it all the sadder.

Well, I am seriously thinking now that he never care about any of those girls or their feelings. I mean he has a good g/f in Kotonoha but he never really like her, he was just lusting for her and that was it. He was just using Sekai for his own means but he never have true feelings for her either. I dont think he never care about any of the other girls what so ever. I can finally see why that he is one of the worst or maybe the worst anime character that was ever created.

[asaqe]

Um, pardon me, but what disguishes a playboy (Like those guys who you see sleeping with plenty of girls and every girl likes him) and a **** like Makato? Because unlike 99% of all males in shonen anime. He isnt sexually incompetant.

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by asaqe

Um, pardon me, but what disguishes a playboy (Like those guys who you see sleeping with plenty of girls and every girl likes him) and a **** like Makato? Because unlike 99% of all males in shonen anime. He isnt sexually incompetant.

What exactly do you mean? If the so-called "playboy" sleeps with other girls while he has a loving girlfriend waiting for him at home, nothing distinguishes them. If he's just playing the field and has a lot of one-night-stands, there's a clear difference.
I don't know where you're going with this, no one hates Makoto because he's sexually competent, that's a ridiculous postulation. He's hated because of his inconsiderate/stupid actions, and his apparent indifference to anyone else's feelings.
This isn't a shonen anime either, in any event. :<

[AvatarST]

Originally Posted by asaqe

Um, pardon me, but what disguishes a playboy (Like those guys who you see sleeping with plenty of girls and every girl likes him) and a **** like Makato? Because unlike 99% of all males in shonen anime. He isnt sexually incompetant.

That's not hard to answer. They're getting easy, dumb girls. Or maybe they know how to lie to the good ones. But they do know how to lie to the opposite gender decently enough.

Makoto's clueless and socially incompetent, and couldn't possibly attract good or even stupid girls. Kotonoha and Sekai aren't exactly dumb broads, so it's quite unrealistic for them to be with someone as worthless as Makoto.

Makoto isn't even sexually competent, he's a perverted little kid who is overexcited about sex.

[Nenkitsune]

Playboys are the type of characters that sweet talk dumb girls into having sex. Makoto's just an idiot that has no common sense when it comes to sex, nor has any idea what kind of a mess he's made for himself. Sekai hasn't helped much on the matter either.
Honestly, Makoto's the type of person I yell at for being an idiot.