AnimeSuki Forums

Sansker · 2012-12-25, 11:35

No, it isn’t the only logical conclusion. Is the one that will explain, kind of, what is happening but again, we could assume the other way as well.

And yes, the Dividers can only be use by an Eclipse Driver, but is show that those devices are the ones who can break magic links. I mean Cypha herself was cut by a magic attack by Signum before she react and then she was no longer vulnerable to those. I am just saying that, all things consider, it is possible and if you knew so much is in risk you could at least try. Again, just an idea.

Is up to the author to see what is going to happen next.

Rising Dragon · 2012-12-25, 13:48

You should keep in mind that when Cypha lost her arm, magic wasn't the only factor. Yes, there was magical flames everywhere... but underneath all those magical flames was a very sharp physical sword. So that's why she lost her arm; not because of the magic. Case in point, the attack damaged Laevatein to a degree.

Sansker · 2012-12-25, 14:40

But it did work and Signum only notice the magic not working when Cypha react. Besides Laevatein break because Cypha's body is to hard and can take blows like it was made of iron. Eclipse Drivers can change their muscle structure to resist impacts, that is why normal weapons don't affect them. With the anti-magic of the Dividers they have even more power.

Kaijo · 2012-12-25, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sansker

Eclipse Drivers can change their muscle structure to resist impacts, that is why normal weapons don't affect them.

You're guessing. We have no evidence of this. You're the one who wants to be shown every little detail before we can assume it as truth, so there is no way you can believe something like this.

WarpObscura · 2012-12-25, 23:24

That's exactly why it should be spelt out clearly. I think you and I have been on the Net long enough to know that a hell lot of "debate" would not exist if authors would bother to be clear with their details and yields.

Sansker · 2012-12-25, 23:34

Indeed, since we are left with nothing but that: guessing.

We have little evidence of a lot of things to be fair. Some aren’t important, some might be important and some aren’t address for other reasons. We can’t be sure of anything if there isn’t a solid proof and even there is always open to interpretation. I do think what I say is possible, but since it hasn’t been tested there is no way to say it isn’t. As well as the other theory is possible as well.

Kaijo · 2012-12-26, 00:09

You do realize this is Nanoha? With 1001 separate manuals, and booklets, and sound stages, and manga, etc.? We'll get answers to the minor questions, like exactly what Cypha/eclipse people do to magic weapons, eventually.

We're on episode 7, remember? Patience.

Sometimes, I really feel like there is a bunch of kids in the back seat going, "Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?"

/sigh

Sansker · 2012-12-26, 01:01

I think this is more like episode 8, but what I am saying is fact: there are some details missing. And I like it best when the story can give us the clues we need rather than searching on the "manual" that is included with each set of DVDs and manga ($ *Cha chin!*$) I needed to do that, couldn’t help it.

But until we get such explanations we will wonder about it. And I still refuse to be patient when they left 2 months and a half on story time go by without any incident. Because on this logic, right on the middle of episodes 6 and 7 there is time skip that I don’t think is well place.

And don’t blame the kids, Kaijo, the trip is boring.

Yasanagi · 2012-12-26, 01:40

The thing is that we don't even have to really pay for this 'trip'. We don't even buy the actual manga magazines or volumes.

Sansker · 2012-12-26, 11:07

Indeed but this manga sell on Japan, where they do have to pay for it. Besides that was just a joke.

I still consider that the extra reading should not be needed to explain the story and should be a deeper look in to the Nanoha universe. Which it is, I agree, but I just don’t like the idea of expressing useful information on such extras rather than in the story itself. Even if it is for free

Kaijo · 2012-12-26, 11:11

Yasanagi brings up a good point. I'm reminded of the outcry over changes that free services like Facebook makes.

"OMG! How DARE they not tailor this free service they are providing to me, to my exact specifications! What? pay for it? Have you gone mad?"

In fact, there was a brouhaha over Instagram lately, that XKCD captures nicely: http://xkcd.com/1150/

People love to complain. It's human nature, and I'm not immune, either. But whinging over something you are given for free, ie, "What? You want to give me this free piece of bread? But... it's a day old!" really strikes me as, well, not terribly enlightened.

And yes, as an anime critic, I am well aware I come close to this. But there is a difference between being critical, and whinging. True criticism doesn't really come into play until after the play/movie/series/etc is over. Can't really judge a book by it's cover, nor even by the first few chapters. Need to see the whole.

Yasanagi · 2012-12-26, 11:21

In response to Sansker: I can share that sentiment. I find it annoying how certain story elements or even one major story is told only through Drama CDs but then again, they are cheaper to produce than anime and they probably generate higher profit margins than DVD sales.

Sansker · 2012-12-26, 11:26

Again, I just say that the extra material should not be crucial to the plot. I don’t care about it and I do like to know more.

Well, yes, you need to see the whole but it doesn’t mean that the parts have to be bad or that you can’t criticize certain parts of a history. It might look weird now and, as you always say Kaijo, we still need time but I do believe we can say what we thing about the story as this goes on.

After all if a manga or anime starts weak is not going to keep people interest on it for long, right? And you are not willing to giving it a change. To be honest I did like Force at the start. It really look good back then.

Kaijo · 2012-12-26, 14:21

In season 1, Nanoha's Starlight Breaker was crucial to the plot, both in her having it, and how it works. Neither one was addressed in the course of the show(same with the A's upgrade). You needed to turn to extra materials to discover why Nanoha was able to shoot so much magic. And yet, those were the best seasons, according to you.

For better or worse, Nanoha is one of those series. For the record, I'm not entirely partial to how they are doing things, but them's the breaks. So before you get upset about the lack of details about the mechanics of things,recognize they've done this before... in Season 1. Hucks and the Eclipse ain't much different from Starlight Breaker.

bhl88 · 2012-12-26, 19:23

They're not much different? Eclipse is to virus, as Hucks is to gangstas, as Starlight Breaker is to spell

Sansker · 2012-12-26, 21:25

The point of the SLB was just meant as a tool. Nanoha had a super spell to use against Fate, it could be anything and really wasn't all that important. What matter there was if Nanoha could beat Fate and then reach out for her.

But Force does play with more science-fiction elements which always requires some details to work. Is fiction but also science. I am not upset at the lack of details, just mention it and how does plays a role here, while in the past was easier to get away with it. If you do bring new elements in to the mix then you better make sure they fit the present formula or expand it. That is why I am not that happy of how things works on Force.

Kaijo · 2012-12-26, 21:39

And the Eclipse and the dividers are just tools. They are just the things that make the bad guys a threat to our heroes.

And Nanoha has always had sci-fi. Hell, that's part of the reason S1 made waves, is because a magical girl show had technological weapons and space ships. But that's not surprising, since Tsuzuki is a fan of Super Robot Wars and Gundam, and thus those influences play heavily in all his references.

Sansker · 2012-12-26, 21:54

I do know about Super Robot Wars and Gundam but not everything he take from those and put on Nanoha work well.

The Eclipse isn't as the SLB at all. And I don't mean just because virus and spell but most as plot elements. The thins is this: the SLB isn't important. The Eclipse is important. Why? Because really when the SLB is use the fact there was Nanoha beating Fate, how wasn't as important as the consequences of such defeat for both characters. The Eclipse on the other hand is what start this whole mess. Is the thing that made the villains actually villains and that get our heroes worry about it. So really isn't just a thing is THE thing and it would need a little more of details.

***CrowKenobi*** · 2012-12-26, 21:57

I wonder if we can move the discussion on and stop arguing about the same things over and over...

And Sansker, Nanoha isn't the first franchise to have background info given in ancillary material not easily accessable outside (and sometimes inside!) Japan. (Tenchi Muyo! is one of these)

EDIT: if the details of the Eclpise virus isn't given in any outside media, then we'll eventually see it in the Force manga itself (hopefully!).

Sansker · 2012-12-26, 21:59

I know, when did I say it was?

2012-12-25, 11:35	Link #6821
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	No, it isn’t the only logical conclusion. Is the one that will explain, kind of, what is happening but again, we could assume the other way as well. And yes, the Dividers can only be use by an Eclipse Driver, but is show that those devices are the ones who can break magic links. I mean Cypha herself was cut by a magic attack by Signum before she react and then she was no longer vulnerable to those. I am just saying that, all things consider, it is possible and if you knew so much is in risk you could at least try. Again, just an idea. Is up to the author to see what is going to happen next. __________________

2012-12-25, 13:48	Link #6822
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	You should keep in mind that when Cypha lost her arm, magic wasn't the only factor. Yes, there was magical flames everywhere... but underneath all those magical flames was a very sharp physical sword. So that's why she lost her arm; not because of the magic. Case in point, the attack damaged Laevatein to a degree. __________________

2012-12-25, 14:40	Link #6823
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	But it did work and Signum only notice the magic not working when Cypha react. Besides Laevatein break because Cypha's body is to hard and can take blows like it was made of iron. Eclipse Drivers can change their muscle structure to resist impacts, that is why normal weapons don't affect them. With the anti-magic of the Dividers they have even more power. __________________

2012-12-25, 23:24	Link #6825
WarpObscura Bibliophile Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: There's this dot on the world map...	That's exactly why it should be spelt out clearly. I think you and I have been on the Net long enough to know that a hell lot of "debate" would not exist if authors would bother to be clear with their details and yields. __________________ Yo dawg, I heard you like QB... Thanks MAEt for the av!

2012-12-25, 23:34	Link #6826
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	Indeed, since we are left with nothing but that: guessing. We have little evidence of a lot of things to be fair. Some aren’t important, some might be important and some aren’t address for other reasons. We can’t be sure of anything if there isn’t a solid proof and even there is always open to interpretation. I do think what I say is possible, but since it hasn’t been tested there is no way to say it isn’t. As well as the other theory is possible as well. __________________

2012-12-26, 00:09	Link #6827
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	You do realize this is Nanoha? With 1001 separate manuals, and booklets, and sound stages, and manga, etc.? We'll get answers to the minor questions, like exactly what Cypha/eclipse people do to magic weapons, eventually. We're on episode 7, remember? Patience. Sometimes, I really feel like there is a bunch of kids in the back seat going, "Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?" /sigh

2012-12-26, 01:01	Link #6828
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	I think this is more like episode 8, but what I am saying is fact: there are some details missing. And I like it best when the story can give us the clues we need rather than searching on the "manual" that is included with each set of DVDs and manga ($ Cha chin!$) I needed to do that, couldn’t help it. But until we get such explanations we will wonder about it. And I still refuse to be patient when they left 2 months and a half on story time go by without any incident. Because on this logic, right on the middle of episodes 6 and 7 there is time skip that I don’t think is well place. And don’t blame the kids, Kaijo, the trip is boring. __________________

2012-12-26, 01:40	Link #6829
Yasanagi A Drifter... Author Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Brampton	The thing is that we don't even have to really pay for this 'trip'. We don't even buy the actual manga magazines or volumes. __________________ Thanks to 00-Raiser for hooking me up with the sig!

2012-12-26, 11:07	Link #6830
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	Indeed but this manga sell on Japan, where they do have to pay for it. Besides that was just a joke. I still consider that the extra reading should not be needed to explain the story and should be a deeper look in to the Nanoha universe. Which it is, I agree, but I just don’t like the idea of expressing useful information on such extras rather than in the story itself. Even if it is for free __________________

2012-12-26, 11:11	Link #6831
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	Yasanagi brings up a good point. I'm reminded of the outcry over changes that free services like Facebook makes. "OMG! How DARE they not tailor this free service they are providing to me, to my exact specifications! What? pay for it? Have you gone mad?" In fact, there was a brouhaha over Instagram lately, that XKCD captures nicely: http://xkcd.com/1150/ People love to complain. It's human nature, and I'm not immune, either. But whinging over something you are given for free, ie, "What? You want to give me this free piece of bread? But... it's a day old!" really strikes me as, well, not terribly enlightened. And yes, as an anime critic, I am well aware I come close to this. But there is a difference between being critical, and whinging. True criticism doesn't really come into play until after the play/movie/series/etc is over. Can't really judge a book by it's cover, nor even by the first few chapters. Need to see the whole.

2012-12-26, 11:21	Link #6832
Yasanagi A Drifter... Author Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Brampton	In response to Sansker: I can share that sentiment. I find it annoying how certain story elements or even one major story is told only through Drama CDs but then again, they are cheaper to produce than anime and they probably generate higher profit margins than DVD sales. __________________ Thanks to 00-Raiser for hooking me up with the sig!

2012-12-26, 11:26	Link #6833
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	Again, I just say that the extra material should not be crucial to the plot. I don’t care about it and I do like to know more. Well, yes, you need to see the whole but it doesn’t mean that the parts have to be bad or that you can’t criticize certain parts of a history. It might look weird now and, as you always say Kaijo, we still need time but I do believe we can say what we thing about the story as this goes on. After all if a manga or anime starts weak is not going to keep people interest on it for long, right? And you are not willing to giving it a change. To be honest I did like Force at the start. It really look good back then. __________________

2012-12-26, 14:21	Link #6834
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	In season 1, Nanoha's Starlight Breaker was crucial to the plot, both in her having it, and how it works. Neither one was addressed in the course of the show(same with the A's upgrade). You needed to turn to extra materials to discover why Nanoha was able to shoot so much magic. And yet, those were the best seasons, according to you. For better or worse, Nanoha is one of those series. For the record, I'm not entirely partial to how they are doing things, but them's the breaks. So before you get upset about the lack of details about the mechanics of things,recognize they've done this before... in Season 1. Hucks and the Eclipse ain't much different from Starlight Breaker.

2012-12-26, 19:23	Link #6835
bhl88 Otaku Apprentice Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Unseen Horizon	They're not much different? Eclipse is to virus, as Hucks is to gangstas, as Starlight Breaker is to spell __________________ OS-tan Collections (temporary): https://discord.gg/Hv2rBs3

2012-12-26, 21:25	Link #6836
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	The point of the SLB was just meant as a tool. Nanoha had a super spell to use against Fate, it could be anything and really wasn't all that important. What matter there was if Nanoha could beat Fate and then reach out for her. But Force does play with more science-fiction elements which always requires some details to work. Is fiction but also science. I am not upset at the lack of details, just mention it and how does plays a role here, while in the past was easier to get away with it. If you do bring new elements in to the mix then you better make sure they fit the present formula or expand it. That is why I am not that happy of how things works on Force. __________________

2012-12-26, 21:39	Link #6837
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	And the Eclipse and the dividers are just tools. They are just the things that make the bad guys a threat to our heroes. And Nanoha has always had sci-fi. Hell, that's part of the reason S1 made waves, is because a magical girl show had technological weapons and space ships. But that's not surprising, since Tsuzuki is a fan of Super Robot Wars and Gundam, and thus those influences play heavily in all his references.

2012-12-26, 21:54	Link #6838
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	I do know about Super Robot Wars and Gundam but not everything he take from those and put on Nanoha work well. The Eclipse isn't as the SLB at all. And I don't mean just because virus and spell but most as plot elements. The thins is this: the SLB isn't important. The Eclipse is important. Why? Because really when the SLB is use the fact there was Nanoha beating Fate, how wasn't as important as the consequences of such defeat for both characters. The Eclipse on the other hand is what start this whole mess. Is the thing that made the villains actually villains and that get our heroes worry about it. So really isn't just a thing is THE thing and it would need a little more of details. __________________

2012-12-26, 21:57	Link #6839
*CrowKenobi* One PUNCH! Administrator Join Date: Dec 2005	I wonder if we can move the discussion on and stop arguing about the same things over and over... And Sansker, Nanoha isn't the first franchise to have background info given in ancillary material not easily accessable outside (and sometimes inside!) Japan. (Tenchi Muyo! is one of these) EDIT: if the details of the Eclpise virus isn't given in any outside media, then we'll eventually see it in the Force manga itself (hopefully!).

2012-12-26, 21:59	Link #6840
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	I know, when did I say it was? __________________