One Piece - Chapter 738 [manga]

[GreyZone]

Oh damn, I really REALLY hate it, when i write a wall of text... and it was the last post of the page :/

[ZGoten]

^I read it. ^^ Regarding bounties, though. I could potentially see Sanji falling behind. He's not exactly on the island right now and doesn't have a lot of chances to get noted by the government for doing something significant at the moment. In fact, the odds are pretty much against him, as we all know. So I can definitely see Sanji staying at 77 million, even though I wouldn't like it at all. It would affect the others too, although I wouldn't mind it much in Chopper's case, because I've always expected the 50 berry to remain a running gag anyway.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by ZGoten

^I read it. ^^ Regarding bounties, though. I could potentially see Sanji falling behind. He's not exactly on the island right now and doesn't have a lot of chances to get noted by the government for doing something significant at the moment. In fact, the odds are pretty much against him, as we all know. So I can definitely see Sanji staying at 77 million, even though I wouldn't like it at all. It would affect the others too, although I wouldn't mind it much in Chopper's case, because I've always expected the 50 berry to remain a running gag anyway.

End of One Piece... Chopper's Bounty rises from 50 Berry to 10 Billion. He is still considered to be a pet... however the pet of the new pirate king! i.e. he can be used to demoralize other pirates, showing them how the WG/Marines finally managed to catch, while not the actual new Pirate King, his pet at least though! Oh and Luffy's bounty is 30 Trillion by then!

Nah... at that time, the WG probably was already destroyed by pirates, revolutionaries and "traitors"! i.e. no more bounties!

[paradox13]

It's fine if Sanji falls behind in terms of bounty. Bounties are not accurate indicators of strength.

Besides, it's always been the case that he saved the crew by moving around undetected. Having a lower bounty would enable him to do just that, so it may even be an asset for him.

I find it highly unlikely that Sanji will ever fall behind Franky in terms of strength. There is a reason why Zoro, Sanji and Luffy are called the monster trio. It has been implied that Sanji is as strong as Jimbei, and I don't think we will see him fall to fourth place, even if Jimbei joins.

It seems pretty ludicrous that you would conclude that Sanji lost the fight to Vergo due to a relatively minor injury. A crack in the leg bone is nothing in the One Piece world, we've seen people (including Sanji himself) endure far worse and eventually prevail.

Anyway there's no point in flogging a dead horse. Arguing for the sake of arguing is a waste of time, especially when it is clear what the facts are.

[grey_1960]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

(in-universe) Known History of Monkey D. Luffy:
Luffy has beaten 2 Shichibukai (neither known per newspapers, but it affected his bounty at least once), "officially" won against the best CP9 agent in the history of the world who was respected and feard by many vice-admirals, while "officially" declaring war on the WG and forcing the commander of Ennies Lobby to use the Buster Call, which didn't help in capturing the SH crew and instead just caused EL to be reduced to ashes, was "officially" declared to be the direct descendant (son) of the Revolutionary Dragon, is infamous enough to be mentioned by the 5 elders, is one of the mysterious "D", managed to "somehow" infiltrate Imped Down, causing together with "Buggy the Clown" and "Ivankov the revolutionary" a riot that many took advantage off to escape or be freed by others (blackbeard helping the lvl6 prisoners), among the people who escaped, two former Shichibukai were included, then together with many of the escaped prisoners, Luffy helped the Whitebeard pirates to free Ace, while avoiding the 3 Admirals and even getting past his grandfather, the legendary marine Garp! He succeeds in freeing Ace, however both Whitebeard and Ace fall in the end and Luffy gets critically wounded by Admiral Akainu, but still survives and escapes. A few days later Luffy returns to Marineford together with "Jinbei", the former Shichibukai and the 2nd mate of Gold Roger "Dark King Rayleigh" to perform a "burial ceremony" for Luffy's fallen step-brother "Ace the Fire Fist", which at the same time humilated the marines defending it. Then he disappears for 2 years and reappears again in Shabondy, only to disappear again...........

Current Bounty: 400 million


(in-universe) Known History of Ronoa Zoro:
Was known in East Blue as the infamous "Pirate Hunter Zoro", but decides to turn to piracy instead and joins the "Straw Hat Crew". His first major accomplishment that he was recognised for was the "Massacre of Whiskey Peak" and taking down the best Agent of the Shichibukai "Crocodile". His next (probably) known accomplishment was defeating the CP9 Agent Kaku, who was the 2nd strongest member of the current CP9 at that time. He was also assisting Monkey D. Luffy in the assault on Enies Lobby in general, but was not present in the latter attacks of Luffy in Impel Down and Marineford. Zoro was refered to by marines as "Straw Hat Luffy's underling". As with Luffy, Zoro disappeard for 2 years until the Straw Hat Crew resurfaced again in Shabondy Archipelago.

Current Bounty: 120 million


Ok... and now let us add what you, grey_1960, speculate happens next:

Luffy defeats Doflamingo, Luffy's Bounty rises from 400 million to 640 million.
Zoro buys a bit time against Fujitora and then manages to escape, Zoro's bounty rises from 120 million to 650 million.

You seriously want to say THAT?

Not to mention that Law managed to do that already... and he actually even stood his ground against BOTH Fujitora and Doflamingo! Law's new bounty, after having defected from the Shichibukai should be over 1 billion then, according to you!

Bounties
Thanks for the help(collecting information) and yes I do want to say that. Being able to fight an Admiral is a very big deal. You throw it off like it isn't worthy of a bounty hike. Ace was 550 million when he was killed by Admiral Akainu at Marine Ford. I think giving Zoro 600-700 million range is reasonable especially if he fights with Admiral Fujitori and thwarts or impedes his mission. Try taking that excuse to the Fleet Admiral. Second the Straw Hats bounty has not been updated since they did the two year time skip. If Zoro comes out big in Dressrosa and people finally recognize him for his true skill then yes I can see it being that high.

Originally Posted by ZGoten

What would have happened is irrelevant when talking about what did happen. And what did happen is neither Sanji or Vergo were defeated. It was a draw. If you still fail to see that, then I don't know what to tell you.

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Because a cracked leg bone in One Piece is a critical injury, right? We've seen far worse injuries in the past, and yet those affected characters still kept going and eventually triumphed.

Sanji's crack Leg
If this is irrelevant then why did Oda show it in the fight with Vergo? Why did Sanji comment it on Ch 682 page 8 after the fight? It shouldn't really matter right? Of all the damage he took Oda took space in the page to emphasize the crack in the leg. Not once but twice. Also if you guys look carefully that the same right leg Zeff lost. Usoppe had his clarity moment of during Water 7 (when he left the team). Do you think that leg will be Sanji's clarity moment? I kinda wonder if he will lose it like Zeff.

But then again Oda probably wasting space on his page by putting irrelevant stuff that is not part of the plot. Will probably see more of these useless tidbits or plot holes like the bomb in the treasure chest that went to Big Mama and many others. (Strong Sarcasm).

Finally you can call the Vergo vs. Sanji match how ever you want. But if that legs comes back to haunt Sanji. Remember I told you so.

[paradox13]

What is a clarity moment?

Is that like when you level up? Gain some stats?

[grey_1960]

^Clarity
His clarity moment is what happens when all great hero fall or face stark reality. They finally realize their limits. Now how they respond to that loss is up to them. Luffy lost his brother, Ussope got kicked out of team, Zoro gave up his dream and his life at thriller bark for Luffy, the Straw Hats lost big at Saboady.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by grey_1960

Bounties
Thanks for the help(collecting information) and yes I do want to say that. Being able to fight an Admiral is a very big deal. You throw it off like it isn't worthy of a bounty hike. Ace was 550 million when he was killed by Admiral Akainu at Marine Ford. I think giving Zoro 600-700 million range is reasonable especially if he fights with Admiral Fujitori and thwarts or impedes his mission. Try taking that excuse to the Fleet Admiral. Second the Straw Hats bounty has not been updated since they did the two year time skip. If Zoro comes out big in Dressrosa and people finally recognize him for his true skill then yes I can see it being that high.

What about Law then? As I said he did "even better" than just holding off Fujitora for a moment. He held off Fujitora AND Doflamingo. What would you say his bounty should be after he gets kicked out from the Shichibukai?


I won't even begin that Sanji vs Vergo discussion, btw. It is just one big recycling of the same arguments. And that discussion began many chapter ago, so it starts to get boring a bit.

[grey_1960]

^Cat and Mouse
You don't think Law's discussion hasn't been beaten to death either? You know Luffy and Zoro are rescuing Law right? Daflamingo wiped the floor with him and then handcuffed him to the chair. Wasn't Admiral Fujitori eating noodle soup on a flying ship? Daflamingo and Admiral Fujitori were doing what cats do when they are bored or not hungry. They play with their food.

[bonsobon]

I find the current discussion a little strange. In the entirety of the manga the captain of a pirate crew has always received the largest bounty, no exceptions (I think). By wanting Zoro to have a larger bounty than Luffy is grey 1960 suggesting that he be captain of the Strawhats instead? I'd love to hear the reasoning for that one.

[GreyZone]

Even when Nico Robin joined, who had a much higher bounty than Luffy's, Luffy's bounty was immidietly raised to 100.000 so the captain has the highest. Also it is logcial. Even IF zoro had accomplished the feat, you say he will, it would still be Luffy who would get seen as the threat in the end, since if Zoro is so strong, how strong would the marines think the one Zoro follows must be?

[noktown]

He showed the cracked bone as to not make Sanji the dominant side in that fight,because Vergo had to be a challenge in that arc and the only threat.

If after a kick to the wall,Sanji blocked his attacks and they both walked away with Sanji uninjured,no one would take Vergo seriously considering how easily Law finishes him off in the end,it was just to show that,yes,he is strong,but nothing indicated that he was stronger than Sanji,because a moment before Sanji sent him flying.

Originally Posted by bonsobon

I find the current discussion a little strange. In the entirety of the manga the captain of a pirate crew has always received the largest bounty, no exceptions (I think). By wanting Zoro to have a larger bounty than Luffy is grey 1960 suggesting that he be captain of the Strawhats instead? I'd love to hear the reasoning for that one.

Exactly,he is the captain,he is leading the guys that did these things,he will ALWAYS have a bigger bounty as the one responsible for the group.

[grey_1960]

^

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Even when Nico Robin joined, who had a much higher bounty than Luffy's, Luffy's bounty was immidietly raised to 100.000 so the captain has the highest. Also it is logcial. Even IF zoro had accomplished the feat, you say he will, it would still be Luffy who would get seen as the threat in the end, since if Zoro is so strong, how strong would the marines think the one Zoro follows must be?

Originally Posted by bonsobon

I find the current discussion a little strange. In the entirety of the manga the captain of a pirate crew has always received the largest bounty, no exceptions (I think). By wanting Zoro to have a larger bounty than Luffy is grey 1960 suggesting that he be captain of the Strawhats instead? I'd love to hear the reasoning for that one.

Reboot? Keep an Open Mind
For the the captain of the straw hat thing no, but I could see an arc were Luffy is captured and Zoro has to rally the crew, and that would be interesting. Now my thing is whats going to happen if Zoro does take the highest bounty? Hodi(main boss of the arc) was suppose to be reserved for Luffy but Zoro fought him(and he beat him hands down with out killing him). Wasn't the idea to reserve the strongest or main antagonist for the captain? My point is the two years have passed and this could be a new beginning for the straw hats has for the rest of the world. To me it feels like something DC did to their series. They are doing the new 52 which is a reboot of the whole universe. Its not changed to a point where you don't recognize it, but just enough to give it new life. The reason for this reboot is money, give writers more room for creation, breath new life into the series, and create a whole new universe. I personally feel that what the time skip is. Look at another example, People thought Zoro (has an individual) couldn't hack it against Admiral, they were wrong. Law is talking about a huge change that is about to happen, the Reverie is coming, and the Shichibukai could be axed. You guys should keep an open mind because Law not the only one going on about change, Admiral Fujitori, and many others are pointing to big changes in the one piece universe.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by grey_1960

^




Reboot? Keep an Open Mind
For the the captain of the straw hat thing no, but I could see an arc were Luffy is captured and Zoro has to rally the crew, and that would be interesting. Now my thing is whats going to happen if Zoro does take the highest bounty? Hodi(main boss of the arc) was suppose to be reserved for Luffy but Zoro fought him(and he beat him hands down with out killing him). Wasn't the idea to reserve the strongest or main antagonist for the captain? My point is the two years have passed and this could be a new beginning for the straw hats has for the rest of the world. To me it feels like something DC did to their series. They are doing the new 52 which is a reboot of the whole universe. Its not changed to a point where you don't recognize it, but just enough to give it new life. The reason for this reboot is money, give writers more room for creation, breath new life into the series, and create a whole new universe. I personally feel that what the time skip is. Look at another example, People thought Zoro (has an individual) couldn't hack it against Admiral, they were wrong. Law is talking about a huge change that is about to happen, the Reverie is coming, and the Shichibukai could be axed. You guys should keep an open mind because Law not the only one going on about change, Admiral Fujitori, and many others are pointing to big changes in the one piece universe.

I get your point, but the problem is that LOGIC won't change that easily

[ri0]

I'm with you guys in thinking the old strength hierarchy is still intact (Franky below Sanji, altough he now seems suuuper reliable) and Zoro's bounty will stay under Luffy's. I find it rather funny to think of such a ridiculous bounty raise only because of a small encounter, where Fujitora easily intercepted Zoro's attack on Doflamingo. This doesn't even constitute as keeping Fujitora from doing his job, since from the beginning we didn't even know what that guy was up to.

Originally Posted by paradox13

I find it highly unlikely that Sanji will ever fall behind Franky in terms of strength. There is a reason why Zoro, Sanji and Luffy are called the monster trio.

And just a small clarification: the term "monster trio" is fan-made and was not used in the manga, so I wouldn't use it for valid arguments.

[noktown]

We all know that Sanji has something new badass in store for sure,none of them have shown anything new yet,except for a few "fan-service" techniques,which don't mean anything in a real battle.

It's obvious that in a real battle they will all probably use something cool and you will look back to the Vergo fight and say "oh why didn't he use that against him ?" just like you always do.

Franky might be added as the fourth monster in the group,but assuming that he is strong just because he defeated a couple of officers which at this point we already understand are fodder in DoFlamingo's crew,doesn't make him stronger than Sanji,it is cool,it's DoFlamingo's crew and all,but doesn't mean anything.

[paradox13]

Originally Posted by ri0

And just a small clarification: the term "monster trio" is fan-made and was not used in the manga, so I wouldn't use it for valid arguments.

Not fan made, was used in the manga, said by Chopper and Usopp.

Cheers.

Originally Posted by philip72

I've always thought the monster trio concept was inaccurate and silly. Robin from the start and Franky ver.2.0 are just as tough depending on the situation, and Chopper could be if he ever gets his naivety and fears under control.

You're inaccurate and silly.

Robin from the start was never stronger than Sanji, Zoro or Luffy, nor was Franky. You only had that impression of them because you didn't know their true capabilities as they were introduced as villains.

[paradox13]

Originally Posted by philip72

Franky ver2.0 has been making Sanjay look like a puss lately,

How? Franky hasn't faced a single decent opponent yet..

He blasted open a door. That's pretty much it.

Originally Posted by philip72

and Zoro never had as much raw potential as Robin.

What does that even mean?

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by philip72

Franky ver2.0 has been making Sanjay look like a puss lately, and Zoro never had as much raw potential as Robin.

Yes, because Franky has been fighting opponents the same caliber as Vergo and Doflamingo, right? I like Franky a lot (he's my second favorite crew member), but he's NOT stronger or comparable to Sanji. Oda has constantly portrayed Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji, as the top 3 in strength (and he hasn't shown any signs of deviating from this).

Robin does have lots of potential, indeed. But sadly, since she's a female, she's relegated to playing more of a supportive role than being an outright powerhouse. This is a shounen, after all. If it were up to me, I'd gladly put in more powerful females in this series. For example, I'd love for the green bull admiral to be a female, but the chances of that happening are slim to none. I tire of sausage fests in shounen (and that also extends into the males monopolizing the strongest combatants), but what can be done? As eccentric as Oda can be, he still does follow some norms in Shounen manga, with one of them being males at the forefront in strength.

[ri0]

Originally Posted by paradox13

Not fan made, was used in the manga, said by Chopper and Usopp.

Cheers.

I really can't remember - When was that term being used? I only recall weakling trio...

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

If it were up to me, I'd gladly put in more powerful females in this series. For example, I'd love for the green bull admiral to be a female, but the chances of that happening are slim to none.

I'd like to see that too. A female admiral would be so awesome!


Regarding this other discussion: I'm really looking forward to Franky's battle against two officers of the fighting army plus a VA. This time he doesn't have the Shogun, which gave him a huge power boost, so we might be able to judge his strength better.
Furthermore, I hope Sanji finally gets his time to shine in the NW too.

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Oda has constantly portrayed Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji, as the top 3 in strength (and he hasn't shown any signs of deviating from this).

Oda didn't show any signs, but with Sanji's battles and their effectiveness in contrast to the badass-moments Luffy, Zoro and Franky had since the timeskip, I can understand, why people tend to believe it.
But it shouldn't be overlooked, that Franky was in the BF-38 when he fried Buffalo and Baby 5, whereas Sanji took on one of Doflamingo's strongest henchmen and the Shichibukai himself.